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Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: abevilac
Date: June 09, 2020 05:45PM
My daughter is an artist and in an MFA program where she will need a computer to interface with various FabLab kind of tools. There is a departmental computer nearby but it doesn’t have Adobe Suite on it so last year she was taking her old MBP 2012 to the studio so she could manipulate files but it’s heavy and has virtually no battery. So this year she was thinking of getting a new machine to take into school.

One thought was a big iPad Pro But she doesn’t know if it will run Adobe. There are obvious downsides of having an expensive iPad In a school workshop environment so she was thinking of getting some sort of windows machine instead. Problem is neither of us know anything about the dark side so I said I would ask this group.

As an aside her 30th birthday is in July and her father and I are willing to purchase a new computer for her.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.

Ann
Lancaster PA
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: Bernie
Date: June 09, 2020 06:18PM
Got to the Dell website




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: rz
Date: June 09, 2020 06:21PM
My wife just bought a Lenovo because she's really getting into sewing, and some of the programs that she needs to interface with her machine only run on Windows. She went to Best Buy (I know, I know), and talked to a guy there who told her that the Lenovos were much better than the HPs and Dells. I told her I hope she doesn't have any problems because I flat out refuse to deal with any PC-related issues she might have.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 09, 2020 06:56PM
Why are you considering windows?



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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: abevilac
Date: June 09, 2020 07:18PM
She doesn’t like the feel of newer keyboards on the Airs but I don’t think she has tested any of the newer Macs. From the time she was able to sit up in a chair, she’s been using Macs so this would be a departure. She says she would keep her mbp tethered to her desk at home. I guess it’s a money thing too — a cheap pc that would last the next 2 yrs would be ok.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: August West
Date: June 09, 2020 07:20PM
Firstly, congrats to you for putting a daughter into an MFA program, and to her for getting there with your help.Not my field, so I'm not a great resource, but I would suggest that she ask around her department for their suggestions and experiences. Never know what she might learn!



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 09, 2020 07:21PM
Hackintoshable laptop. Look at tonymac to find a suitable cheap model.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 09, 2020 07:24PM
Assuming by "adobe" you mean photoshop? (cause adobe makes 20 different applications...)

iPads only run a "baby" version of PShop, if thats the case -- so might depend on her usage.

Is there a budget? Kinda important. A good dell XPS is as much as a MBA or MBP.

And as a FWIW, any Mac will run Windows. Just need to buy a copy and install.

But I can understand getting a cheap something if their is concern about it getting stolen or broken.

My kids have 2012 MBPs, but they look nearly the same as new MBPs. I tell them they are a target for theives... dont leave them hanging out.



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 09, 2020 07:29PM
Don't ignore AMD based machines. They have made huge strides recently in efficient laptops with long battery life and powerful processors.

Lenovo has good hardware but they had been doing wacky stuff with it. Starting about 2010, they installed rootkits on hard drives so they could reinstall Adware after users did a nuke and pave. Even after that, boot drives have a half dozen partitions that make it difficult perform upgrades at a later time.

Dell makes very good hardware but it can be expensive, and they have their own refurb/outlet store. [www.dell.com] The old standard Dealnews.com should have some deals for 'back to school' sales in a few weeks. School bookstores will also usually have computer specials. BestBuy will occasionally have decent discounts but their people are highly variable. Anything under $800 is generally a commodity product. Acer and HP also have good values.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: deckeda
Date: June 09, 2020 07:39PM
My Windows 10 experience with MS apps:

If you have a file open, and for whatever reason want to open another file (located anywhere) with the same name, the app will refuse.

File Explorer windows (i.e. OS folders/directories) can and will randomly close if "too many" (like maybe 3) are open at once and kept open "too long."

Every file you open in an app launches a new instance of the app ... splash screen and all.

Minimize a document down to the task bar (i.e. Dock) and the next doc you open in that app will un-minimize the other doc.

The basic stupidity of how many things behave is a daily joy.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: jonny
Date: June 09, 2020 07:47PM
Quote
deckeda
Every file you open in an app launches a new instance of the app ... splash screen and all.
.
eek smiley
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 09, 2020 07:48PM
Look on Craigslist for something adequate.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: John B.
Date: June 09, 2020 07:54PM
Does she need(want) a touch/pen interface? Maybe look at the Microsoft Surface line...although I don't know that they would be much cheaper than a MBA/MBP (I have one that was provided as my work machine, the pen stays in my laptop bag except when I need to sign electronic forms.)
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 09, 2020 07:56PM
The basic stupidity of how many things behave is a daily joy.


Actually, I see the logic of W10 constraints as learning aides for a new-to-computers user, keeping them from being set adrift among a see of open windows and open files of the same names.

But once moving from wet feet to getting their sea legs, these become the restrictions.

There should be a switch to allow moving to OlNaCl mode.

We have similar problems on the Mac side.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: Carm
Date: June 09, 2020 08:23PM
On Windows Side, I’ve used Windows XP, Windows 7, latest version of 10. Eight was joke. I’ve used Dell Latitudes, Inspiron and Vostro models. So I tend to suggest Dell Latitudes because they are usually built like tanks. But Lenovo makes some decent hardware. Regardless of their shady shenanigans.

As mentioned by others AMD has improved their mobile processors.
I’ve been an intel fan since the core 2 duo days.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 09, 2020 09:51PM
Seriously, the Dell models like their 13" are very good machines.

HP sells up-scale models that look like Macs.

The Surface Pro are popular with owners.

However, they all run Windows.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: testcase
Date: June 09, 2020 10:01PM
If somebody made a Chromebook with a 17" (or larger) screen, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 09, 2020 10:12PM
Quote
testcase
If somebody made a Chromebook with a 17" (or larger) screen, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Dell has a brand new 17" [www.dell.com]

Looks sweet. Nvida 2060 too. Starts at $1900 w 8/512 -- $2500 with 32/1TB.

Now if would only run OS X. =(



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: archipirata
Date: June 10, 2020 07:52AM
Forget the iPad pro if she needs actual Photoshop (or any other Adobe app). They are making good progress toward getting it to a workable state but it's still far from ready for prime time. Over half the functionality of the desktop version is missing from the iPad version and half of what is there is crippled in some way or another. I do use it for some simple editing tasks but it has a LONG way to go.



Athens, OH
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: rich in distress
Date: June 10, 2020 08:15AM
Hey abevilac!
I remember an art project of your daughter, it involved placing objects and snapping photos. I though it deep and fun.
I wanted to offer my participation so bad, but at the time my life was changing too fast to consider.
At any rate, a small/light computer or tablet can be kept in some sort of pouch around the torso.
I keep a cinch bag for a mbp, but I’m sure there are more specific solutions.
Anyway...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2020 08:15AM by rich in distress.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: June 10, 2020 09:01AM
As has been said above it really depends on what specifically she will be doing.

The other part of that is that while any Windows machine will do, I discovered that my long deep-seated hatred of Windows the software was really a long deep-seated hatred of Windows hardware. All those years of struggling with Windows was mostly due simply to the fact that ALL the machines sucked donkeys. A couple of years ago, my company bought me a top of the line Dell mobile workstation. It was powerful and fast and ran Windows like nobody's business. It was almost a pleasure to use.

Which brings me to my next point. There is a difference between hating Windows and hating how Windows runs. Until I got that new machine, Windows was slow and buggy and didn't do what I wanted. But those were mostly shortcomings of the hardware. After I got the new machine, and Windows was running like a top, I discovered that I didn't necessarily hate Windows, I just loved the MacOS more. I've spent most of my computer using life with the MacOS. I can get by on Windows, I just don't like it.

With that said. For someone who has used a Mac since they could sit up in a chair, switching to Windows will not be nice. It's not that it's bad. Windows 10 is ok. It's just that a lot of the things the MacOS does, Windows does not, and I find myself really missing those things when I have to use Windows.




__________________________________
There’s a guy wearing overalls with no shirt.
Which I think we all know is the International uniform for the last guy you’ll ever see.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: Dazed & Confused
Date: June 10, 2020 10:08AM
Another vote for a Dell Latitude. Windows has come a long way with version 10 not so bad. It's actually pretty damn good. Folks need to move on from the old days of MS making really bad operating systems. This new version, while not perfect, is quite usable. I read & hear people complaining about Macs just as much if not more...

D & C
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 10, 2020 10:31AM
Quote
Dazed & Confused
Another vote for a Dell Latitude. Windows has come a long way with version 10 not so bad. It's actually pretty damn good. Folks need to move on from the old days of MS making really bad operating systems. This new version, while not perfect, is quite usable. I read & hear people complaining about Macs just as much if not more...

D & C

Microsoft made so many poor user interface decisions on Windows 10 it makes my head spin. The one that immediately jumps to mind is the screen that comes up when you do a “Save As” — instead of a traditional dialog box, you get a sheet that takes up the ENTIRE SCREEN while offering just a few options for where you can save the file. You have to click a second link on that sheet to get to the traditional dialog box.



It is what it is.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: Dazed & Confused
Date: June 10, 2020 11:07AM
"Microsoft made so many poor user interface decisions on Windows 10 it makes my head spin. The one that immediately jumps to mind is the screen that comes up when you do a “Save As” — instead of a traditional dialog box, you get a sheet that takes up the ENTIRE SCREEN while offering just a few options for where you can save the file. You have to click a second link on that sheet to get to the traditional dialog box."

I can't seem to duplicate this problem but it sounds like a minor annoyance rather then a major issue. There might well be a workaround for it, you'd have to Google it.

My positive views on Windows 10 still stands; not perfect but perfectly usable.

D & C
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 10, 2020 01:02PM
“If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will“
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: D. Lawson
Date: June 10, 2020 01:41PM
Quote
Dazed & Confused
"Microsoft made so many poor user interface decisions on Windows 10 it makes my head spin. The one that immediately jumps to mind is the screen that comes up when you do a “Save As” — instead of a traditional dialog box, you get a sheet that takes up the ENTIRE SCREEN while offering just a few options for where you can save the file. You have to click a second link on that sheet to get to the traditional dialog box."

I can't seem to duplicate this problem but it sounds like a minor annoyance rather then a major issue. There might well be a workaround for it, you'd have to Google it.

This only occurs in more recent versions of certain applications, and isn't forced behavior by the operating system itself. Office 2013 introduced the "full screen" Save As that lets you choose the file's current folder and a list of recently used folders as target locations. If you don't want to save the file in any of those, you need to press the Browse button to be able to navigate to the location you want.

I am still running Office 2010 on one of my Windows 10 PCs, and Save As still behaves the way it used to.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Date: June 10, 2020 03:07PM
"This only occurs in more recent versions of certain applications, and isn't forced behavior by the operating system itself. Office 2013 introduced the "full screen" Save As that lets you choose the file's current folder and a list of recently used folders as target locations. If you don't want to save the file in any of those, you need to press the Browse button to be able to navigate to the location you want.'

Thanks for the clarification. Useful info.

Windows 10 isn't a total turd as some Mac faithful wish it was. If anything I'm more annoyed at Apple with their $1000 monitor stands & $700 computer cart wheels. Corporate greed as it's finest. Some would say that's the price you pay for owning a luxury brand. I say balogna. A Rolex & Porsche are luxury brands. A computer is a tool to get something done, not a fashion statement.

D & C
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: D. Lawson
Date: June 10, 2020 03:41PM
Quote
Dazed & Confused (Mobile)
If anything I'm more annoyed at Apple with their $1000 monitor stands & $700 computer cart wheels.

Along with the ridiculous and expensive hoops you have to jump through to upgrade most of the recent Mac lineup after the initial purchase, if it's even possible in the first place.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 10, 2020 04:19PM
Quote
Dazed & Confused
"Microsoft made so many poor user interface decisions on Windows 10 it makes my head spin. The one that immediately jumps to mind is the screen that comes up when you do a “Save As” — instead of a traditional dialog box, you get a sheet that takes up the ENTIRE SCREEN while offering just a few options for where you can save the file. You have to click a second link on that sheet to get to the traditional dialog box."

I can't seem to duplicate this problem but it sounds like a minor annoyance rather then a major issue. There might well be a workaround for it, you'd have to Google it.

My positive views on Windows 10 still stands; not perfect but perfectly usable.

D & C

I should have clarified: It occurs primarily when choose "Save As..." from within an application, at least in the MS Office apps and Adobe Acrobat.



It is what it is.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: jonny
Date: June 10, 2020 04:49PM
Quote
bazookaman
With that said. For someone who has used a Mac since they could sit up in a chair, switching to Windows will not be nice. It's not that it's bad. Windows 10 is ok. It's just that a lot of the things the MacOS does, Windows does not, and I find myself really missing those things when I have to use Windows.
agree smiley
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: deckeda
Date: June 10, 2020 10:12PM
more:

You have an app’s window configured for size and location and close it when done. You open another document of the same kind (so, same app) and it assumes the same window dimensions and location as the previous. More often than not this is irrelevant, which makes it dumb.

Lately the company-shared network drive has been working great. It’s secure and must be accessed thru VPN. But you’ll die a thousand deaths if the cache or whatever decides the path should be going through something akin to .local first, which sends your access to the drive through a Byzantine journey of nearly endless lifetimes, reducing speed to less than a crawl. Google “re-map shared drive” — an actual Windows feature — and enjoy years’ worth of insights into how people regain access to networked drives.

I fixed mine by not having File Explorer remember recently-used directories until the freakin .local pathway for everything non-local disappeared, something Google did NOT show me. I figured the two days’ loss of productivity was a wash for the time I would have spent watching the 3rd party IT helpdesk poke around.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: abevilac
Date: June 10, 2020 11:28PM
Quote
rich in distress
Hey abevilac!
I remember an art project of your daughter, it involved placing objects and snapping photos. I though it deep and fun.
I wanted to offer my participation so bad, but at the time my life was changing too fast to consider.
At any rate, a small/light computer or tablet can be kept in some sort of pouch around the torso.
I keep a cinch bag for a mbp, but I’m sure there are more specific solutions.
Anyway...

Yup. She’s the one. That project took 3 years to complete although many of butterflies got lost along the way, she did manage to get them to every continent. Here’s a link to the project.
[tashalewis.info]

As for the original question, she definitely won’t be going the iPad Pro route. She needs Illustrator and photoshop to run fully. I’ll pass your comments along to her.

Thanks all.
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Re: Thinking of going to dark side
Posted by: testcase
Date: June 11, 2020 07:46AM
Quote
jdc
Quote
testcase
If somebody made a Chromebook with a 17" (or larger) screen, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Dell has a brand new 17" [www.dell.com]

Looks sweet. Nvida 2060 too. Starts at $1900 w 8/512 -- $2500 with 32/1TB.

Now if would only run OS X. =(


$1900 and up???? smiley-shocked003 One of the GREAT things about a Chromebook is that it does all the "basics" at a basic price. I paid LESS THAN $200 for the 15.6" HD screen Acer refurb (which, at that price, was a no brainer). The only issues I've encountered are printing and watching DVDs can be a kludge. Otherwise, it spanks Windows and Mac OSes for basic computing needs.
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