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WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Microman
Date: June 14, 2020 12:14PM
I believe the church has internet, but it is an office area.

So it doesn't reach the sanctuary or the big gathering room in the back, or offices in the back.

What would be needed to get WIFI throughout, the church.

Run Ethernet cables to each far location and add ?? what?

Thanks, for any help
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: June 14, 2020 12:16PM
How big is the place? In a lot of cases, one good router centrally located will do the trick.




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2020 12:39PM by M A V I C.
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Cary
Date: June 14, 2020 12:50PM
Or a mesh network system like Netgear Orbi or TP Link Deck or Google (I FORGET THE name).
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: June 14, 2020 12:54PM
Mesh is never a good solution for a business except in use cases where running physical cable is impossible and it is better than nothing.

Run ethernet cable to each spot and purchase a Wireless Access Point for each spot. Ubiquity makes some inexpensive APs that will work.



C(-)ris
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 14, 2020 01:04PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Run ethernet cable to each spot and purchase a Wireless Access Point for each spot. Ubiquity makes some inexpensive APs that will work.

I'd never recommend Ubiquiti's low-end hardware to anyone. And the high-end is prohibitively expensive outside of enterprise.

Running Ethernet is advisable, but not strictly necessary.

What might the budget be?



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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Microman
Date: June 14, 2020 01:06PM
Place is pretty big

Budget, just enough to get the job done correctly and hopefully easily. (The Least Hassle)
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 14, 2020 01:22PM
Correctly...

Bring in a local network specialist for a consult. As Chris pointed out, Ethernet and access points (probably Cisco Meraki) are probably the way to go, with wall or ceiling-mounts. Ideally, the Ethernet would be run inside the walls. But the space would need to be properly evaluated to determine the best solution.

...Many electricians will run the cable for you, but they don't usually set up the network as well. They just run cable.



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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 14, 2020 01:26PM
....a wing and a prayer.....???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 14, 2020 01:34PM
Quote
Sarcany
Bring in a local network specialist for a consult.

100% this.

Prob someone that attends has some good knowledge already?

Going by "what I read on the MRF" is not the way =)

The church office might have net... but lets just say is 50 MB/s. The minute 50 people try to log on and start doing anything = the minute it all comes to a standstill.



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 14, 2020 02:41PM
One question that needs to be answered -- will it be an open network for members to use, or will it be closed for business use only?

The needs for each is hugely different.

If it just for business use so someone can access the network in the far reaches, then a password protected mesh system would likely be fine. If you are looking to let everyone watch football during the sermons, then you will need a full networked system.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: June 14, 2020 03:43PM
I agree with much of what's been said....

If this is for the congregation to use, so you need decent capacity, what I'd do is something like this;

Run ethernet lines to four locations where you want WAP's.
Invest in an 8 or more port POE capable ethernet switch. I like the Ubiquiti UniFi 8-150w switch. Just installed one at work, along with a bunch of their 48 port switches.

If it was me, I'd buy Ubiquiti UniFi (their "pro" line.... well, semi-pro... ) line of WAP's. I have no experience with their consumer line, so I'll trust Sarcany's opinion of those. I LOVE their UniFi line! Another local school tech just installed 20-ish UniFi UAP-AC-Pro access points, and loves them. They're not as "feature rich" as a Meraki, Cisco, or Ruckus, but it's also actually affordable for a local church (about $150 each).

I would invest in the "Cloud Key" to run and manage the network using the UniFi Controller software. You can install the controller software on a computer (Mac, PC, or Linux) instead of the Cloud Key, but that means that computer must be running all the time... the Cloud Key is cheap enough an investment to put it on a dedicated device.

Minus the running the wiring, you're in under about $1100 for four AP's, POE Switch, and Cloud Key.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 14, 2020 04:35PM
Paul,

There is simply no way you can know whether four WAPs will be sufficient without knowing the size, layout and construction of the church or how many people and areas the WLAN is intended to support. This is especially true of the new Wi-Fi 6 standard.

I do this for a living; rather, the company where I work does (as well as many other networking-related services). For eight years I managed the design and installation of WLANs into LAUSD schools, so I know a thing or two about the topic. The best suggestion I've read so far is to bring in a network consultant - they can help you figure out exactly what will be required for your particular facility and support requirements.

It's not too difficult to do this right with the right resources but it's really easy to do it wrong without them, leaving you with a system that doesn't do what you want/need it to. Bring in a pro.



It is what it is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2020 04:40PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: June 14, 2020 04:39PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Paul,

There is simply no way you can know whether four WAPs will be sufficient without knowing the size, layout and construction of the church or how many people and areas the WLAN is intended to support. This is especially true of the new Wi-Fi 6 standard.

I do this for a living; rather, the company where I work does (as well as many other networking-related services). For eight years I managed the design and installation of WLANs into LAUSD schools, so I know a thing or two about the topic. The best suggestion I've read so far is to bring in a network consultant - they can help you figure out exactly what will be required for your particular facility and support requirements.

It's not too difficult to do this right but it's really easy to do it wrong, leaving you with a system that doesn't do what you want/need it to. Bring in a pro.

Valid points...
But he didn't ask for a "brush off" to "bring in a pro"... he asked to get some idea what he'd be getting in to. Now he has some idea. It's not a complete plan - that requires more information. But he now has some idea.

I also noticed that you didn't bother to try to answer his question, but did spend time picking mine apart.
This is one of the things that really started to piss me off about this forum.
People have plenty of time to tell you your answer is wrong, but won't bother to answer the question for themselves.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2020 04:41PM by Paul F..
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 14, 2020 04:57PM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Paul,

There is simply no way you can know whether four WAPs will be sufficient without knowing the size, layout and construction of the church or how many people and areas the WLAN is intended to support. This is especially true of the new Wi-Fi 6 standard.

I do this for a living; rather, the company where I work does (as well as many other networking-related services). For eight years I managed the design and installation of WLANs into LAUSD schools, so I know a thing or two about the topic. The best suggestion I've read so far is to bring in a network consultant - they can help you figure out exactly what will be required for your particular facility and support requirements.

It's not too difficult to do this right but it's really easy to do it wrong, leaving you with a system that doesn't do what you want/need it to. Bring in a pro.

Valid points...
But he didn't ask for a "brush off" to "bring in a pro"... he asked to get some idea what he'd be getting in to. Now he has some idea. It's not a complete plan - that requires more information. But he now has some idea.

I also noticed that you didn't bother to try to answer his question, but did spend time picking mine apart.
This is one of the things that really started to piss me off about this forum.
People have plenty of time to tell you your answer is wrong, but won't bother to answer the question for themselves.

OK....

The only part of my post that was made in direct response to your post was the first paragraph, in response to what I believe to be a recommendation that was based on insufficient information.

The rest of my response was directed toward the OP and took into account all the advice provided in the thread ("The best suggestion I've read so far...").

OP did not ask for "some idea" of what would be required -- the question OP asked was: "What would be needed to get WIFI throughout, the church?" While there are as many answers to that question as there are members of this forum, I provided what I believe to be the best answer: Bring in a pro. I'm sorry you feel that was a brush-off, but as someone who does this for a living I understand the potential pitfalls of such an endeavor and provided the best advice I could to ensure a successful installation for OP. You are free to disagree.

Designing/installing a WLAN into a facility like a church is nothing at all like bringing a wireless router home from Best Buy and installing it in your living room. I stand by my recommendation: Bring in a pro.

EDIT: I didn't try to answer his question directly because I know nothing about the installation the WLAN will be installed into. Others had already stated the obvious things: WAPs and Ethernet cabling. Cloud vs. on-prem management is a question that will also need to be addressed. Design is the most important factor here, however, and that can't be performed from behind a keyboard hundreds or thousands of miles away, sight unseen. And budget hasn't even been addressed yet.



It is what it is.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2020 05:40PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 14, 2020 06:00PM
....will you be able to search (while on the internet)....for the Devil....???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: datbeme
Date: June 15, 2020 12:11AM
A lot of assumptions being made here, but right now it sounds like a basic question about "what would it take?" A fact finding mission. Since he seems to know little about the current setup, it's unlikely he's in a position to recommend a network consultant. Most likely, the budget is extremely limited if there is any budget at all.

We know nothing about the size of the church, the quality of the internet connection, or the ability to run wire—which can be a major pain. I am all for suggesting that this be planned out appropriately by someone who can assess the situation and make educated suggestions, but that is often a luxury.

If you have the budget to do it right, that's obviously the way to go. But if you can run the ethernet, you can set up a pretty great Unifi network on a shoestring budget if you are mainly looking for access for meeting attendees and internal use. If you absolutely need to accommodate hundreds or thousands of people, you can probably afford to spring for a professional.
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Re: WIfe asked me what can Church do to get Internet through out church
Posted by: TheTominator
Date: June 16, 2020 07:30AM
Even though most have said what needs to be said, I'll chime in.

You've got the general idea right. Your existing WiFi doesn't reach.

It is likely not getting to the other areas due to (1) range and (2) signal blocking barriers, e.g. stone walls.

If you can figure out a way to run ethernet cable to target locations and then plug in WiFi stations to serve those areas, that would provide the best performance and is the best long term solution.

An alternative to long runs of ethernet cable is to use some "powerline adapters" which will use your existing AC electrical wiring. If your electrical wiring is relatively modern, this will be unobtrusive, relatively inexpensive, and have reasonably good performance. These adapters are sold in pairs. Plug one adapter into an AC wall outlet near your existing Internet. Plug the paired adapter into an AC wall outlet near where you want your Internet to reach. Each adapter has an ethernet port. The devices together act like a long ethernet cable.
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