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From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: PeterB
Date: June 14, 2020 07:22PM
I just saw an ad on TV for supplement called Cognium, supposed to improve memory/retention.

OK, I say, for the sake of argument -- let's see what's in it. (I'm interested in the whole nootropic field.) Does it have any real basis for the claims they make about it. The active ingredient? An item called Cera-Q.

OK, I say, let's find out what that is... turns out it's a silk protein hydrolysate (mostly protein) from ... of all things ... silkworm cocoons. barf smiley

OK, I say, let's see if there's any scientific basis for THAT in terms of memory/retention. Pubmed yields a few items, including this:

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

but also this, which has been retracted:

[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

and a bunch more articles from the Korean authors. The same Korean authors who, of course, have now patented this stuff, originally called BF-7, as Cera-Q ... and selling it as a company.

... and finally, this ... which about sums it up:

[www.vaga.org]

... OK, I say, but independent of this (trying to keep an open mind here), how might it work, if it does actually work? And that's where it gets interesting... the Nutrients article I linked above suggests either that it interacts with other proteins through the beta-sheet structure, and/or improves localized blood circulation in the areas of the brain for learning and memory.

The reviews of products containing Cera-Q on Amazon make me wonder if this is truly snake oil and people are doing the classical self-fulfilling prophecy / self-confirming bias: [www.amazon.com]

... OK, I say, I understand that this is being marketed as a supplement, so it's not subject to the same regulatory issues as drugs, but still... you'd think that this might have been pulled by now, at least for making some of the claims it does. Though I have to admit that the protein stabilization theories proposed, though kind of preposterous, are interesting from a scientific perspective.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 14, 2020 08:06PM
I am unaware of any product that has been clinically proven to help with memory.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: freeradical
Date: June 14, 2020 08:13PM
Koreans have a fascination with silkworms.

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: neophyte
Date: June 14, 2020 08:26PM
So it's a good Prion?
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 14, 2020 08:27PM
Quote
sekker
I am unaware of any product that has been clinically proven to help with memory.

Yet Prevagen advertises heavily that:
"Prevagen Improves Memory* Prevagen has been clinically shown to help with mild memory loss associated with aging.*"

* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[www.prevagen.com]
They also list their research and studies
[www.prevagen.com]
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: davester
Date: June 14, 2020 08:28PM
Quote
sekker
I am unaware of any product that has been clinically proven to help with memory.
I know of one, though I forgot what it's called.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: June 14, 2020 08:49PM
old fogey smiley buy some leeches and be done with it!



39°36'17"N 75°44'43"W

The search engine that doesn't track you.

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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 14, 2020 09:26PM
Prevagen is made from jellyfish. The founder was a regular guest on a TV medical show I watched in the early 2000's. It was obvious he was a shyster. I think maybe he sold out to the people who have it now.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 14, 2020 10:01PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
sekker
I am unaware of any product that has been clinically proven to help with memory.

Yet Prevagen advertises heavily that:
"Prevagen Improves Memory* Prevagen has been clinically shown to help with mild memory loss associated with aging.*"

* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[www.prevagen.com]
They also list their research and studies
[www.prevagen.com]

Such ads are illegal in Europe.

Buyer beware.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 14, 2020 10:06PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
GGD
Quote
sekker
I am unaware of any product that has been clinically proven to help with memory.

Yet Prevagen advertises heavily that:
"Prevagen Improves Memory* Prevagen has been clinically shown to help with mild memory loss associated with aging.*"

* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[www.prevagen.com]
They also list their research and studies
[www.prevagen.com]

Such ads are illegal in Europe.

Buyer beware.

Every time I see their ad I wonder why they're not illegal in the USA. It's being sold as a supplement yet they're making medical claims.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 14, 2020 10:16PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
sekker
Quote
GGD
Quote
sekker
I am unaware of any product that has been clinically proven to help with memory.

Yet Prevagen advertises heavily that:
"Prevagen Improves Memory* Prevagen has been clinically shown to help with mild memory loss associated with aging.*"

* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[www.prevagen.com]
They also list their research and studies
[www.prevagen.com]

Such ads are illegal in Europe.

Buyer beware.

Every time I see their ad I wonder why they're not illegal in the USA. It's being sold as a supplement yet they're making medical claims.

Congressmen representing supplement businesses in their districts passed the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994:

[ods.od.nih.gov]

As long as the supplement makers' medical claims are not too "egregious", they get away with it. And year by year slowly defund the FDA so they simply have no people or resources to enforce the rules. Lots of influential people in Congress have a strong vested interest in allowing businesses to do as they please and the easiest way to do this is simply defund the regulatory bodies.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: PeterB
Date: June 14, 2020 11:16PM
Quote
sekker
I am unaware of any product that has been clinically proven to help with memory.

I think you must be forgetting (snicker) about one of the oldest, most common nootropics out there, one that probably EVERYONE reading this right now has used, at one time or another:

[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: MikeF
Date: June 14, 2020 11:45PM
I lost part of my memory reading the initial post.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: wowzer
Date: June 14, 2020 11:47PM
Just eat jellyfish. They are yummy if prepared properly.



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: June 15, 2020 09:32AM
Yep, just another supplement.

And who knows if they actually contain what's advertised...they could be nothing more than sugar pills.
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Re: From the "scientifically, is this preposterous?" department
Posted by: PeterB
Date: June 15, 2020 10:32AM
Quote
wowzer
Just eat jellyfish. They are yummy if prepared properly.

I'll try just about anything once, but there are some things that I just wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

From the link that freeradical posted, here's another video (WARNING, video is disturbing on multiple levels): [www.youtube.com]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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