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RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 22, 2020 02:01PM
During its WWDC keynote, Apple revealed that macOS Big Sur will be version 11.0. This marks the end of macOS 10, which spanned from version 10.0 or Cheetah in 2001 to version 10.15 or Catalina in 2019.

[www.macrumors.com]





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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 22, 2020 02:07PM
I’ll pour out a 40 for intel and OS X. But life’s gotta move on…
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: timg
Date: June 22, 2020 02:08PM
Missed Opportunity. They should have called it "Spinal Tap" instead of Big Sur!



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: jonny
Date: June 22, 2020 02:10PM
Rosetta 2... "Even faster than the original!"
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 22, 2020 02:15PM
If they were going to renumber it, they really should have called it 14 to keep in sync with iOS and iPad OS. They might want to consider renumbering watchOS too. Or maybe rename them all to be based on calendar year.

Given how their ecosystem works across devices, a naming scheme that makes it easier to know which software was designed to work together and introduced at the same time might make sense.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 22, 2020 02:17PM
.....To Sur.......With Love......???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 02:23PM
Quote
p8712
I’ll pour out a 40 for intel and OS X. But life’s gotta move on…

Nah, somehow I think macOS 11 will still run on every Mac Apple is selling this October, the vast majority of which will be using Intel CPUs. Maybe I'll make an AMD Ryzen Hackintosh just because.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2020 02:23PM by Lew Zealand.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: hal
Date: June 22, 2020 02:25PM
[www.apple.com]

this is the list of compatible computers (basically nothing built before 2013):

MacBook
2015 and later

MacBook Air
2013 and later

MacBook Pro
Late 2013 and later

Mac mini
2014 and later

iMac
2014 and later

iMac Pro
2017 and later
(all models)

Mac Pro
2013 and later
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 22, 2020 02:27PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
p8712
I’ll pour out a 40 for intel and OS X. But life’s gotta move on…

Nah, somehow I think macOS 11 will still run on every Mac Apple is selling this October, the vast majority of which will be using Intel CPUs. Maybe I'll make an AMD Ryzen Hackintosh just because.

Looks like Big Sur will support most 2013 and later Macs. They did end support for the 2012 MacBook Pros and the 2012 Mini.

[www.apple.com]
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 22, 2020 02:28PM
are there any details on what makes it a new OS aside from a major version change?



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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 02:29PM
Haswell and later. Finally sunsetted my Ivy Bridge Quad 2.6 Mini. Somehow I'll have to suffer through Mojave or Catalina. winking smiley
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Rolando
Date: June 22, 2020 02:33PM
Quote
GGD
If they were going to renumber it, they really should have called it 14 to keep in sync with iOS and iPad OS. They might want to consider renumbering watchOS too. Or maybe rename them all to be based on calendar year.

Given how their ecosystem works across devices, a naming scheme that makes it easier to know which software was designed to work together and introduced at the same time might make sense.

This! Lion should have been MacOS 11, and they should have sync'd with iOS 12 onwards!

But especially now as the App Store will be (near?) Unified!



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: PeterW
Date: June 22, 2020 02:41PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
p8712
I’ll pour out a 40 for intel and OS X. But life’s gotta move on…

Nah, somehow I think macOS 11 will still run on every Mac Apple is selling this October, the vast majority of which will be using Intel CPUs. Maybe I'll make an AMD Ryzen Hackintosh just because.

Has anyone ever hackintoshed an AMD-based pc?
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: MEG
Date: June 22, 2020 02:59PM
Quote
GGD
Looks like Big Sur will support most 2013 and later Macs. They did end support for the 2012 MacBook Pros and the 2012 Mini.

...and the Early 2013 MacBook Pros apparently
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 22, 2020 02:59PM
Looks like my kids 2012 13" MBPs arent on the list... bummer/



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 22, 2020 03:06PM
Quote
jdc
Looks like my kids 2012 13" MBPs arent on the list... bummer/

I was expecting those to be supported longer too, since they continued to sell them until I think 2016. The last Optical Drive and Ethernet Mac laptops.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 22, 2020 03:23PM
I wanna start seeing other regions as OS names.

Mac OS Boise !

Mac OS Jersey Shore !

Mac OS Sheboygan !
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 03:25PM
Quote
PeterW
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
p8712
I’ll pour out a 40 for intel and OS X. But life’s gotta move on…

Nah, somehow I think macOS 11 will still run on every Mac Apple is selling this October, the vast majority of which will be using Intel CPUs. Maybe I'll make an AMD Ryzen Hackintosh just because.

Has anyone ever hackintoshed an AMD-based pc?

Yes, Just have a look on GeekBench (search terms macos and ryzen):

[browser.geekbench.com]
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 22, 2020 03:35PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
p8712
I’ll pour out a 40 for intel and OS X. But life’s gotta move on…

Nah, somehow I think macOS 11 will still run on every Mac Apple is selling this October, the vast majority of which will be using Intel CPUs. Maybe I'll make an AMD Ryzen Hackintosh just because.

It'll be like the ppc-intel transition, intel will be produced for a while longer, but when/if the apple chips are truly fast that's it. Writing's on the wall. I'll stick with old macs until ARM macs get the bugs worked out. I'm sure they will be glued-together disposable monstrosities that wear out after a year. Yay?
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 03:44PM
Considering Apple opened up the Mac Pro and Mac Mini to a more user-servicable state, it's reasonable to think the desktops will not end up glued together. Yet.

And the laptops are already there as it's not even glue, everything is soldered down like in the iPads.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: davemchine
Date: June 22, 2020 03:51PM
A quick scan of the new features doesn’t blow me away but I didn’t spend a lot of time looking. Besides the ability to run on ARM what is it’s claim to fame?
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 22, 2020 03:54PM
Quote
p8712
It'll be like the ppc-intel transition, intel will be produced for a while longer, but when/if the apple chips are truly fast that's it. Writing's on the wall. I'll stick with old macs until ARM macs get the bugs worked out. I'm sure they will be glued-together disposable monstrosities that wear out after a year. Yay?

I think the big issue will be x86 virtual machines and running Windows. There was a lot of hand waving about their new virtual machine environment and running Linux, they didn't say if that was an ARM or x86 version of Linux running (I suspect ARM), and they carefully didn't mention Windows.

I was expecting their new processors to have some level of x86 instruction processing support on them to have a way to continue Windows virtual machine support.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 03:59PM
The x86 support will all be in software emulation, just like the 680x0 to PPC and PPC to Intel transitions. Apple knows what they're doing here.

However because of this I expect Windows support to either end or be quickly deprecated as it now devolves to software-only which will make it slower. Parallels' support model will need to shift to adapt to this.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 22, 2020 04:00PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Considering Apple opened up the Mac Pro and Mac Mini to a more user-servicable state, it's reasonable to think the desktops will not end up glued together. Yet.

we must be looking at different minis.

2012 minis could have drives and ram DIY.

2014 minis were drive only, no DIY ram

2018 minis are ram only, no DIY drive

at least with the 2018 mini you can toss a 1000 MB/s PCIe drive off the back for cheap. and 3000 MB/s drives for a bit more...



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 04:11PM
Quote
jdc
Quote
Lew Zealand
Considering Apple opened up the Mac Pro and Mac Mini to a more user-servicable state, it's reasonable to think the desktops will not end up glued together. Yet.

we must be looking at different minis.

2012 minis could have drives and ram DIY.

2014 minis were drive only, no DIY ram

2018 minis are ram only, no DIY drive

at least with the 2018 mini you can toss a 1000 MB/s PCIe drive off the back for cheap. and 3000 MB/s drives for a bit more...

I was referring to 2014 to 2018 but yes, you make a good point about trading one accessible feature for another. That wasn't an improvement, only an exchange. Though as you say, you can still upgrade the storage externally which is impossible for RAM, so the improvement 2014-18 is barely marginal.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: wave rider
Date: June 22, 2020 04:14PM
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.



=wr=
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 22, 2020 04:34PM
Quote
GGD
If they were going to renumber it, they really should have called it 14 to keep in sync with iOS and iPad OS.

I was going to say this.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: DP
Date: June 22, 2020 04:34PM
Quote
wave rider
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.

What will we use when they've all slid into the Pacific?





Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 04:59PM
Quote
DP
Quote
wave rider
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.

What will we use when they've all slid into the Pacific?

Otisburg
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: DP
Date: June 22, 2020 05:10PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
DP
Quote
wave rider
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.

What will we use when they've all slid into the Pacific?

Otisburg

Yeah, let's get some good old American town names from all over the country-OS Hell or OS Kalamazoo (both in Michigan)...





Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: wave rider
Date: June 22, 2020 05:26PM
Quote
DP
Quote
wave rider
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.

What will we use when they've all slid into the Pacific?

Lake Tahoe!
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Fritz
Date: June 22, 2020 05:39PM
bs, I can't believe ti won't run on my IIci !



!#$@@$#!

If there are spelling issues, please pardon, Owen the cat is sitting on my keyboard.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: June 22, 2020 06:15PM
Quote
DP
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
DP
Quote
wave rider
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.

What will we use when they've all slid into the Pacific?

Otisburg

Yeah, let's get some good old American town names from all over the country-OS Hell or OS Kalamazoo (both in Michigan)...

Heh! My vote would be for OS Ypsilanti. Kind of rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? smiley-laughing001



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: MikeF
Date: June 22, 2020 06:33PM
They should have just stuck with the current numbering until the ARM conversion. THEN start new versioning.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: DP
Date: June 22, 2020 08:12PM
Heh! My vote would be for OS Ypsilanti. Kind of rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

thumbs up How many out there know how to pronounce it?





Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: deckeda
Date: June 22, 2020 08:48PM
Noticed that Catalina's About This Mac screen doesn't mention anything "OS X" ... macOS has been it for a while now, right?? The X designator having already been retired.

To me this reads like Big Sur is just the-next-thing, not a Big Thing necessarily.

Anyway, I see that my October 2013 MBP has since become known as a "Late 2013," and so, spared the hangman's noose for one final go 'round. Thing runs like a top to this day. Really gonna miss these ports tho.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 22, 2020 09:55PM
Though as you say, you can still upgrade the storage externally which is impossible for RAM, so the improvement 2014-18 is barely marginal.


I'm missing your point, I think.

The 2018 and 2020 mini have user upgradeable RAM, though nowhere near as easily as a 2012 mini.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 22, 2020 10:21PM
Big Sur will be macOS 11 on Apple Silicone Macs, and 10.16 on Intel Macs.

Maybe.

At least that's what devs see when they download the beta.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 22, 2020 11:24PM
Quote
wave rider
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.

Didn't realize you were that near! Maybe getting together for a beer is in order before you head back north...



It is what it is.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 22, 2020 11:25PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
DP
Quote
wave rider
Just started using Catalina recently, and where I am sheltering in place, I can see Santa Catalina island from the living room front window. When I get home, I will be ok with Big Sur and can see it across Monterey Bay from my place. I’m liking these California names, Mavericks is just up the coast from me.

What will we use when they've all slid into the Pacific?

Otisburg

When they get to mac OS 13, they could certainly go with Pittsburg as the code name.



It is what it is.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 22, 2020 11:26PM
Quote
MikeF
They should have just stuck with the current numbering until the ARM conversion. THEN start new versioning.

...isn't that exactly what they did? Big Sur will be ARM-native.



It is what it is.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 22, 2020 11:27PM
Quote
RAMd®d
Big Sur will be macOS 11 on Apple Silicone Macs, and 10.16 on Intel Macs.

Maybe.

Makes sense to me..



It is what it is.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 22, 2020 11:40PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
RAMd®d
Big Sur will be macOS 11 on Apple Silicone Macs, and 10.16 on Intel Macs.

Maybe.

Makes sense to me..

I wonder if they need a distinction like that for the app store, a fully native Big Sur app would require macOS 11, while an x86 or universal app would require 10.16.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: June 22, 2020 11:51PM
Quote
RAMd®d
Though as you say, you can still upgrade the storage externally which is impossible for RAM, so the improvement 2014-18 is barely marginal.


I'm missing your point, I think.

The 2018 and 2020 mini have user upgradeable RAM, though nowhere near as easily as a 2012 mini.

2014 Mini: No user upgradable RAM
2018 Mini: User-upgradable RAM

That is an improvement as far as RAM is concerned.

jdc made the point that the RAM improvement was offset by making the storage non-removable in the 2018, though that can be sort of "fixed" by getting a speedy external SSD. But there's no way at all to increase the RAM in a 2014 Mini, so that tips the overall balance a bit in favor of the 2018 Mini. Along with the much faster processor options.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: Fritz
Date: June 23, 2020 08:27AM
up the road from Big Sur.
Weed.



!#$@@$#!

If there are spelling issues, please pardon, Owen the cat is sitting on my keyboard.
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: GGD
Date: June 23, 2020 01:26PM
Quote
Fritz
up the road from Big Sur.
Weed.

Weed is over 400 miles away from Big Sur.

[www.google.com]
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Re: RIP OS X (Ten) -- Big Sur is V11
Posted by: MEG
Date: June 23, 2020 02:26PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
DP
What will we use when they've all slid into the Pacific?

Otisburg

goodone

Thanks Lew - that made my day.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2020 02:28PM by MEG.
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