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The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: June 28, 2020 10:33PM
Poll
39 votes were received.
All visitors can vote.
Anyone waiting for ARM Macs before buying?




Was pondering a MacBook Air but the whole ARM thing has put the brakes on this.



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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 28, 2020 11:10PM
A touchscreen, ARM-based MacBook Air with a slightly thicker screen would have room for a far better webcam.

Such a machine could run iPad apps in addition to MacOS, and would be a game-changer.

We have up to two new Macs this year. If all Apple does is put an ARM chip in the current MBA case and call it a day, we will likely shop for used Macs.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 28, 2020 11:21PM
Apple may surprise me with a speedy MacBook Pro this year, but I don't expect the OS and CPU/GPU to gel into a good Mac for a couple of years.

And Apple's bound to support Intel Macs for at least 5 years after the last one ships.

Assume a 2-3 year transition, that means 7-8 years of support for a Mac that I pick up today.

So, if I see a deal for a new 16-inch, I may take it.

Pros: It'll run lots of different operating systems. Cons: It probably won't run iPhone/iPad apps.



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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: June 28, 2020 11:33PM
Not in the market for a new machine for at least a couple years. Will take a look then, may end up not buying Apple at all depending how things look. Will not buy a 1st generation ARM based Mac at all.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Drew
Date: June 29, 2020 12:01AM
I've been in the market for a new Mac for the past six months or so. Held out for the 14" MacBook Pro that never materialized, so just ordered a 13" (2.0GHz quad-core, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD). Debated with myself for the 16", but felt it's not portable enough for me.

Also debated about waiting for new ARM stuff to appear, but too many unknowns including which model will be released first and also not excited about getting a first generation machine. I figure that if MacBooks in a couple of years are a leap ahead of what I just bought, then I can trade mine in for one of those.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 29, 2020 12:02AM
I want a 14" MBP.

Depending on the price, I'm pretty ready to jump.

A don't know that Apple Silicon is a factor for me, this early on.

I look forward to it, but am not planning on it.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: davemchine
Date: June 29, 2020 12:28AM
Apple already sells iPads there’s no need to wait. winking smiley
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: June 29, 2020 12:48AM
Quote
davemchine
Apple already sells iPads there’s no need to wait. winking smiley


Not a Mac,



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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 29, 2020 01:34AM
Quote
sekker
A touchscreen, ARM-based MacBook Air with a slightly thicker screen would have room for a far better webcam.

Such a machine could run iPad apps in addition to MacOS, and would be a game-changer.

Except for being ARM-based, you are talking about a Microsoft Surface.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 29, 2020 03:41AM
Im itching a new iMac... my 2014 is starting to feel sluggish. Even with 32 GB of ram and and a PCIe external boot (limited to USB 3).

New Adobe apps are slow, slow to save, slow to do many things. Specifically Indesign. Going to do a resinstall... but not hoping for much. And the GPU might be going.

A nice thin bezel 27" or even 32" model with an ARM chip would be great... if it gets her in the next few months...

2019 iMac with i9 has some impressive numbers... I guess if the 2020 is still intel but has even better numbers, that would be OK... but means sticking with Intel for a while, or at least for the same 5 years I kept my 2014..



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 29, 2020 04:36AM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
sekker
A touchscreen, ARM-based MacBook Air with a slightly thicker screen would have room for a far better webcam.

Such a machine could run iPad apps in addition to MacOS, and would be a game-changer.

Except for being ARM-based, you are talking about a Microsoft Surface.

Last time I checked, iPad apps do not run on a Surface. But if you ignore that, then the iPad Pro is really the Surface equivalent.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Sam3
Date: June 29, 2020 06:39AM
I'm going to stay with Intel Macs as long as I can. I have a need to run Windows.

Knowing that we won't get my daughter a new MBP, she's pushing for me to get a new Macbook Pro so that she could inherit my current one. She may win, even though my current mid-2014 is doing the job quite well. It was tricked out when I got it with max RAM and max SSD.



The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Fritz
Date: June 29, 2020 07:55AM
I've been wanting a upgrade from my '13 MBA for a couple years.
But finance and now work don't make it a smart thing to do quite yet.
For most of what I do at home, the MBA is fine.
It just runs out of gas when I use multiple iZotope plugs.
But since I'm not working, that isn't an issue.

In the meantime, I'm finally gonna get to upgrading my MP1,1 from a dual to a dual quad. That'll get me the extra horsepower for now.
If $ starts coming in, I'll buy whatever then.



!#$@@$#!

If there are spelling issues, please pardon, Owen the cat is sitting on my keyboard.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: June 29, 2020 08:14AM
I'm concerned that they will discontinue Rosetta2 with MacOS 11.1, rendering all my remaining functioning software obsolete.

At that point, I'd have no adequate choice other than to add my MBP to my collection of obsolete Macs still in active use, including:
- MDD G4 for PPC software never ported to Intel
- SE/30 with 68040 upgrade for 68040 software that is unstable on PPC
- Stock SE/30 for earlier software that won't run on an '040 cpu
- Mac Plus for anything earlier that won't run on anything later than an '0

What a PITA.
I know I know, progress and all that.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 29, 2020 08:16AM
Rosetta2 does its conversion as you launch rather than while you run the program. I think Apple will be supporting Rosetta2 for many years, just like they will have to support Intel Macs for a decade or more. A $50,000 Mac Pro purchased in 2020 will get a decade of support.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 29, 2020 08:25AM
I’d like to wait, but I likely can’t. The gpu on my 2013 is showing cracks. I’ll catch the wave next time
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 29, 2020 09:57AM
By the time I’m in the market for a new Mac, I will be.



It is what it is.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: hal
Date: June 29, 2020 10:25AM
I NEVER go for the current models. The release of a new line makes the previous line prices much more attractive. I will likely be buying an i9 imac for my next purchase, nbut not for a while.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: June 29, 2020 11:00AM
Quote
sekker
Rosetta2 does its conversion as you launch rather than while you run the program. I think Apple will be supporting Rosetta2 for many years, just like they will have to support Intel Macs for a decade or more. A $50,000 Mac Pro purchased in 2020 will get a decade of support.

There i think you are being overly optimistic. 5 years is pretty certain, past about 7 or 8, I think is highly unlikely.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: June 29, 2020 11:06AM
It will all fall on when my company sets my upgrade budget. If they offer me a budget b'f year's end, and all that's available is an Intel-based i7 Mac mini, that's what I will go for. If it doesn't happen until 2021, and there's an ARM Mac mini available, I will go for that then.

Generally agree with holding off on the first round of ARM Macs. I'm excited for them; first time in a long while I'm excited for some new Apple hardware. Still and all, I remember how the first round of the Intel switch was the CoreDuo and then we got the Core2Duo soon (?) after, and the CoreDuos were not able to support this or that. That makes me want to wait until the second generation ARM Macs are released b'f I consider switching.

But I also want that new hardware now. smiling smiley



BTW, it's spelled y'all
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: June 29, 2020 11:10AM
Quote
sekker
A $50,000 Mac Pro purchased in 2020 will get a decade of support.

Apple Lisa; 1983; $9,995. "We’re prepared to live with Lisa for the next ten years.” - Steve Jobs



BTW, it's spelled y'all
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: June 29, 2020 11:26AM
pRICE,

The '14 iMac at my office is starting to show its age. It's replacement will likeley be a refurbished '19 iMac, identical in spec to the machine I'm using at home. One reason is that it will work with Mojave. The other reason is cost. I've no interest in moving up to Catalina or Big Sur. It's supported by Apple and developers. Supports older 32-bit apps for which I've yet to find a viable replacement. It's rock-solid reliable. So, my next machine must be able to run Mojave.

The other reason is Apple Silicon. I wouldn't purchase the first generation of Macs running Apple Silicon. There are likely going to be bugs and compatibility issues. I'd rather let other people deal with that agita. It also buys me ample time to find viable replacements for apps that don't run under Catalina and Big Sur. If I can't by the 2nd generation of Apple Silicon based Macs, at that point, I'll keep an old machine running for them and/or build a virtual machine for them and finally make the jump.

For now, though, a refurbished 27-inch iMac 3.7GHz 6-core Intel Core i5 is a great machine. Boot off an external USB 3.1 Gen 2 NVME M.2 SSD and it's even dandier. Boot off an SSD built from OWC's new Thunderbolt 3 DYI box and a quality drive and it'll be even more formidable.

Robert
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: June 29, 2020 11:37AM
I'm in the process of putting a SATAIII card and NVME SSD into my 2010 Mac Pro, so no new desktop for now. And to my mind, unless I get an amazing price on a 2019 16" MBP or a 2020 MBP 13", I'm waiting for Apple silicon.

Apparently the Developer Test Kit (an iPad Pro chip ina Mac Minin case) runs about the level of a 2011 iMac, in emulation. I bet that will be a lot better by the time they release consumer/professional models for sale--at least, say a 2015 iMac. Maybe better, if we're lucky....
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: June 29, 2020 12:08PM
Quote
anonymouse1
I'm in the process of putting a SATAIII card and NVME SSD into my 2010 Mac Pro, so no new desktop for now. And to my mind, unless I get an amazing price on a 2019 16" MBP or a 2020 MBP 13", I'm waiting for Apple silicon.

Apparently the Developer Test Kit (an iPad Pro chip ina Mac Minin case) runs about the level of a 2011 iMac, in emulation. I bet that will be a lot better by the time they release consumer/professional models for sale--at least, say a 2015 iMac. Maybe better, if we're lucky....

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple has a more powerful processor than the A12Z already but didn't put it in the developer Mini in order to keep the "surprise."
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 29, 2020 12:33PM
At the WWDC Keynote, it was said Big Sur will be using Rosetta 2.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: June 29, 2020 12:51PM
Quote
RAMd®d
At the WWDC Keynote, it was said Big Sur will be using Rosetta 2.

Besides the name, not much else showing up for details on the implementation of Rosetta 2. About the only thing mentioned was that it would work on the fly to convert application code, and there would be an option to convert an app completely on installation.

The original Rosetta was based on code that now belongs to IBM, and they have not been interested in licensing it out in the years since they acquired Transitive Corporation in 2009. So other than name, Rosetta 2 possibly has no relationship with the original at all. Hopefully what Apple has written is of comparable quality, we will see when it comes out and starts having to deal with many apps.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: August West
Date: June 29, 2020 02:28PM
Mainly for fun, but Im thinking of grabbing the Costco MBA to carry around. I've got the 6 core mini I7 for audio, etc. and could just surf, email, teleconference on the road with the Air. No more huge investments in Macs for me. Also have a 2013 15 MBP that's heavier to carry around when I need it.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 29, 2020 03:43PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
sekker
Rosetta2 does its conversion as you launch rather than while you run the program. I think Apple will be supporting Rosetta2 for many years, just like they will have to support Intel Macs for a decade or more. A $50,000 Mac Pro purchased in 2020 will get a decade of support.

There i think you are being overly optimistic. 5 years is pretty certain, past about 7 or 8, I think is highly unlikely.

Computer tech change is slowing down. The recent Mac Pro was designed to be infinitely renewable from a hardware perspective. Will be interesting to see how long Apple fights closing out security updates for Intel Macs.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: timg
Date: June 29, 2020 03:58PM
I jumped on the first Apple transition and got burned. Yes, it was over 25 years ago, but I hold a grudge. I'll wait 5 years and if Apple is still around, I might consider buying something...



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 29, 2020 04:50PM
I think I'll wait until I see what these new machines have to offer. Luckily work keeps me covered laptop wise.



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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 29, 2020 05:10PM
Quote
timg
I jumped on the first Apple transition and got burned. Yes, it was over 25 years ago, but I hold a grudge. I'll wait 5 years and if Apple is still around, I might consider buying something...

LOL /=)



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 29, 2020 11:13PM
So other than name, Rosetta 2 possibly has no relationship with the original at all.


I'd think that because of the name implying a relationship with the original, Apple had to make a deal with IBM to use it at the very least. Given that much, maybe Apple used some of their code/tech. maybe not.

Even if it has no relationship other than namesake, that's a distinction without a difference, if it does what the original did, ie neither here nor there if the end result is the same. It would be no different than if IBM totally revamped the way Rosetta worked... And called it Rosetta 2.

So Apple said it would be in Big Sur and as long as it does what we expect it should, or at least what its predecessor did, how it does it isn't my takeaway.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 30, 2020 12:30AM
Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: June 30, 2020 12:49AM
Quote
RAMd®d
So other than name, Rosetta 2 possibly has no relationship with the original at all.


I'd think that because of the name implying a relationship with the original, Apple had to make a deal with IBM to use it at the very least. Given that much, maybe Apple used some of their code/tech. maybe not.

Even if it has no relationship other than namesake, that's a distinction without a difference, if it does what the original did, ie neither here nor there if the end result is the same. It would be no different than if IBM totally revamped the way Rosetta worked... And called it Rosetta 2.

So Apple said it would be in Big Sur and as long as it does what we expect it should, or at least what its predecessor did, how it does it isn't my takeaway.

Rosetta was based on licensed software, but the name was Apple's. So they should not need to get any deal in place with IBM to reuse the name.
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Re: The ARMsborn Effect? Anyone waiting until Apple Silicon to buy?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 30, 2020 07:09PM
I’m good until 2025 - which might be past my expiry date anyway.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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