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What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 08, 2020 09:16PM
The topic came up on the other side, so I thought some of you might find this interesting.

Here's what the Genetic Home Reference (pretty reputable source) has to say about it. They do make some important and interesting points: [ghr.nlm.nih.gov]

So my 2% of Neanderthal DNA is not necessarily the same as your 2% (if that's what we each have).

And I was wrong about there being NO Neanderthal DNA in Africans ... it's small, but it's there, currently estimated at about 0.3%.

More here: [en.wikipedia.org]

And if you want to know more about the Denisovans:

[geneticliteracyproject.org]
[en.wikipedia.org]

And of course, it's more fun with pictures ... meet your distant relatives:







Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 08, 2020 09:22PM




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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2020 09:24PM
The Denisovans are such a great science story! Far more of them left in the Far East...
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2020 09:26PM
And do not forget about the 'Hobbits!'

[en.wikipedia.org]
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 08, 2020 09:35PM
Read something about this today. It’s not the “percentage” of DNA you may have, but which identified type of strain you may have that is attributable to them.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 08, 2020 09:38PM
Quote
sekker
And do not forget about the 'Hobbits!'

[en.wikipedia.org]

I didn't; they're currently thought to be way lower on the evolutionary tree, between A. africanus and A. sediba. [en.wikipedia.org] ... I was trying to only post about the two thought to be closest to us.

Here's another version of the tree, but this is based on a different classification of phylogeny:



And yes, the Denisovan story is very interesting ... especially if you consider Denny: [en.wikipedia.org])

... oh, and there's also likely a third ancestor, that we don't know about yet: [www.sciencealert.com]

Quote
deckeda
Read something about this today. It’s not the “percentage” of DNA you may have, but which identified type of strain you may have that is attributable to them.

... yes, I posted about this extensively on the other side. One particular stretch of Neanderthal-derived DNA has come up in the news lately.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 09:45PM by PeterB.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 08, 2020 09:48PM
Quote

And of course, it's more fun with pictures ... meet your distant relatives:

Not distant at all. Looks like my cousin and his wife and kids.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 09:48PM by Speedy.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2020 09:51PM
And there is evidence that many of these hominids were alive AT THE SAME TIME as recently as 50,000 years ago.

Someone asked me when I would go if I had a Time Machine. I would go back in time to visit all of these cousins.

I firmly believe that our oral history remembered all of this diversity and led to all sorts of mythology.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 08, 2020 10:02PM
Quote
PeterB
And I was wrong about there being NO Neanderthal DNA in Africans ... it's small, but it's there, currently estimated at about 0.3%.

Wow, did not know that....thanks PeterB!


Quote
sekker
I firmly believe that our oral history remembered all of this diversity and led to all sorts of mythology.

Quite possible, quite possible.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 08, 2020 10:06PM
Quote
sekker
And there is evidence that many of these hominids were alive AT THE SAME TIME as recently as 50,000 years ago.

Someone asked me when I would go if I had a Time Machine. I would go back in time to visit all of these cousins.

I firmly believe that our oral history remembered all of this diversity and led to all sorts of mythology.

Even earlier than 50,000 years ago, possibly ... the Denisovan wiki suggests that there may have been interbreeding as recently as 15,000 years ago with modern humans in New Guinea.

And yeah ... to have a time machine would be great. Agreed that much of our mythology probably derives from these folks ... even things as simple as the concrete properties of the natural world (such as fire and water), the association of the sky with the heavens, the concept of an afterlife, etc. Though it's fiction, the great film "The Quest for Fire" dealt with some of these issues... I'm sure many here have seen it, but if not... it's actually a fairly realistic depiction of what things might have been like. (The film also portrays a relationship between a Neanderthal and a Cro-Magnon!)




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 10:07PM by PeterB.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 08, 2020 10:14PM
Quote
sekker
And there is evidence that many of these hominids were alive AT THE SAME TIME as recently as 50,000 years ago...

At my bird feeder, there are several varieties of bird that I'd previously identified as catbirds.

This year, among the catbirds, I've seen similar birds, almost identical but with white markings on the wings. Mockingbirds!

And some that I thought were rather dull-looking catbirds turn out to be thrashers.

They frequent my bird feeder at the same time, freely mingling. I checked and it turns out that they're all in the same family.

If birds have this sort of diversity, why do you suppose it strikes some people as so weird that humankind once had similar diversity?



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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2020 10:20PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
sekker
And there is evidence that many of these hominids were alive AT THE SAME TIME as recently as 50,000 years ago...

At my bird feeder, there are several varieties of bird that I'd previously identified as catbirds.

This year, among the catbirds, I've seen similar birds, almost identical but with white markings on the wings. Mockingbirds!

And some that I thought were rather dull-looking catbirds turn out to be thrashers.

They frequent my bird feeder at the same time, freely mingling. I checked and it turns out that they're all in the same family.

If birds have this sort of diversity, why do you suppose it strikes some people as so weird that humankind once had similar diversity?

Relative to those birds, current humanity on Planet Earth has far less diversity. Current estimates are that we are ALL derived from a small colony of about 600 hardy ancestors from East Africa.

So compared to current genetic diversity, as little as 50,000 years ago reflected an entire different world of relatives of homo sapiens.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 08, 2020 10:24PM
You’re both right, but I think you’re saying different things.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 08, 2020 10:25PM
Maybe it’s a rational, but I do feel it’s a shame that we are the only human species left.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 08, 2020 10:41PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Maybe it’s a rational, but I do feel it’s a shame that we are the only human species left.

Nature is a harsh mistress, and we're probably the only species left because we had a selective survival advantage over the others. [www.bbc.com] ... there's a fair bit of evidence to suggest that with a changing climate, the Neanderthals were at a selective disadvantage.

For anyone interested in the genetics of "race", here's a great PBS special; it's already fairly dated, but still very relevant to current circumstances: [www.youtube.com] ... one of the points made in the video is that there is more genetic difference between individual Emperor penguins (!) -- who all apparently look alike-- than between individual human beings.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 10:53PM by PeterB.
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 08, 2020 10:53PM
There was some research that oral history from the Australian aboriginals was accurate going back about 50,000 years ago. I have a friend that has the equivalent of photographic memory for song lyrics. She can sing songs word for word that she only heard once, from maybe ten years earlier. Because of this I can completely believe a family line of "bards" kept history alive for thousands of years.

I it makes me wonder how long it will take us as a species can figure out all our DNA to pinpoint skills like this.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 08, 2020 11:07PM
Wait-a-minute. I thought this all started about 6,000 years ago and what about the dinosaurs?
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 08, 2020 11:10PM
Quote
RgrF
Wait-a-minute. I thought this all started about 6,000 years ago and what about the dinosaurs?

They all fell off the edge of the world. grinning smiley




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: blooz
Date: July 09, 2020 12:36AM
Looks like some of my girlfriends made the line up…
(just kidding, mostly)



And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 09, 2020 07:53AM
....it means you don't need to use toilet paper......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 09, 2020 03:49PM
This is a monumental topic, but just to add a wee bit of memory I have from an article some years ago: was there not some research that threw this whole line of thinking into question relative to the Asiatic locales? That they were not descended from the same strain of early humans? Just a vague memory of what that article was about...
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Re: What does it mean to have Neanderthal / Denisovan DNA?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 10, 2020 12:16AM
mrbigstuff, a lot of this is of course just theorizing and guesswork (admittedly based on science though).

You might find what you're looking for here: [en.wikipedia.org]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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