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What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 11, 2020 09:49AM
After weeks of silence, our school board has announced they've bought into some kind of virtual classroom package and that it's optional. "We're offering this because of significantly reduced registrations." Gee, ya think?

We are not the kind of parents who confuse school with babysitting, so we are intensely interested in this option.

Trouble is, the district has almost no details of consequence to share and we're only a few weeks out from when school is starting. So I'd like to know what you've heard from your area.

-> Our oldest would be starting his senior year. He's a straight-A, honors student who already has about 6 hours of college credit courses taken last year as self-study online. But guess what? The state of TN can't say if any honors courses he'd do online for the school would be considered as "honors" courses when taken online through their own curriculum.

We're considering not registering him for school at all, and have him take the GED and then just start applying to colleges.

-> Our youngest is just starting high school (9th grade). She's on the basketball team, a hard-earned achievement. The district is saying that anyone who chooses the virtual option cannot participant in ANY extra-curricular activates. No sports, no clubs, zero. They're basically pariahs. It's effing stupid.

Meanwhile, the bball team still isn't practicing. They tried it a few times this summer until some random kid elsewhere got C19. A few days ago one of the assistant coaches said the gym was open in case anyone wanted to do some shooting. Optional, not mandatory. 4 kids showed up. The head coach sent an angry message to the team about the weak participation? It was optional! That earned him an email from my wife, which I haven't read yet because I'm not in the mood to turn that into a blistering email.

************

We want them in-class, for all the positive reasons students benefit from the in-class environment, educationally and socially. But the district has zero plan for how to do that this year, safely. But hey, they hold their own board meetings sitting more than 6-ft apart. Nice for them, but not for the kids who I guess are assumed to be immune to sickness and transmission.

And if one of them comes home from school and gets the rest of sick that would be ... not good. I'm already stressed about it since I'm the primary earner here.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 11, 2020 10:39AM
The K-12 situation in the U.S. is a looming disaster. Basically, we can’t afford to let kids return to school this fall.... but we can’t afford NOT to let them return. Things are going to get a LOT worse in the U.S. before they begin to get better.

Good luck with your situation, OP. I personally think your idea to have your older child move on to college is a good one. He can take classes at a community college while applying to four-years — he’ll be WORLDS better off than sticking around for what is sure to be a fustercluck of a senior year in HS.



It is what it is.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 11, 2020 11:08AM
For the senior, I'd strongly consider community college if available. Even if online, you know you'll get college credit for it. Focus on courses that will meet freshman gen ed requirements. We cyber-schooled with a charter, but the last two years of high school were mostly at the community college. Our kids entered college with 20-30 credits already covered, at a fraction of the cost.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2020 11:10AM by Acer.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: Rolando
Date: July 11, 2020 11:43AM
I found a couple of acreditted K12 online schools in Texas from a Teacher friend. If you know any educators, ask.

Run by the University
[highschool.utexas.edu]

Another by another University
[www.depts.ttu.edu]

[learn.connectionsacademy.com]



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 11, 2020 12:03PM
I work in a high school, so have insight into what our district is doing, how it differs from last year, and potential advantages and disadvantages to each. Educationally I believe we have a good plan in place; situationally I'm not nearly as impressed.

Background: We are a small/midsize district by state standards. The school district has about 1800 teachers, 20,000 students spread across 3 high schools, 4 middle schools, 12 elementary, 1 votech, 3 special schools. All students from third grade up are supplied with iPads.

Last year when schools were closed in March, we went to a virtual school model. Teachers could set up classes however they wanted and create their own lessons. It worked but was far from ideal as each teacher set standards that could be far different from another teacher with the same subject. Most high school teachers used Google classroom, but some used other programs. The middle schools and elementary were on completely different platforms. The results were not great.

This year we have learned from our mistakes. The district has settled on an online program called Canvas. This program is extremely popular in colleges. All grade levels will use it in place of the hodgepodge we had. The simple uniformity will help parents and get stronger every year since nothing new will need to be taught just to use it.

This coming year there will be two options for students - either full-time traditional or full-time Virtual.

The virtual program will utilize the online platform and lessons of Florida Virtual School but be overseen and administered by district teachers. In this program, the teachers do not "teach" the class but rather are there to answer questions and evaluate mastery. All lessons and tests are built into the program. I personally have never been impressed by Florida Virtual lessons. I found them to be shallow and minimal. They meet state standards but go no further. Students have no interaction with other students, there is no classroom discussion that can enhance the material. I would homeschool before relying on FLVS.

The traditional route is just what it sounds like - in school learning with a teacher and other students present. Teachers will utilize Canvas as well for homework and testing. This really should give students the best chance of success. If we have to close schools again, students will already be familiar with the Canvas platform. Teachers can utilize it along with Zoom to continue. For students without internet access at home, there are two options being given. They may get all assignments on paper; that requires someone picking up the assignments and then returning them every week. We are also making busse into hotspots that students can join. There will be a school bus at certain places every day for food distribution, so this uses the same resource in multiple ways. There will be shortfalls given the realities of immature students, unsupportive parents, and minimalistic teachers (I admit that those exist, more than I care to count).

We are in a very tea-party, Trump supportive zone. The county as a whole has not taken true precautions. There has never been any directions beyond what the state required. Even masks were scoffed at. The school leadership is no different in that regard. The precautions being taken amount to little more than wiping down desks and doorknobs. Masks are encouraged but not required. There will be no temperature screening or additional measures. Honestly, there would have been some huge pushback from the community if those things had been dictated.

I don't have an answer for you, I don't even know what I would do if my child was still in school. There is no easy answer.

I hope this helps some.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: rz
Date: July 11, 2020 12:41PM
Let me relay an interesting story to you about my sister. When I was going into Jr. High, we moved to Tennessee. The educational system there was easily two years behind the schools we came from. My sister was going into her Junior year. They basically put her in all Senior level classes. When she finished the year, they told her they had nothing left to teach her... except there was a state law that in order to graduate, she had to take a year of Tennessee history. They told her to enroll at UT-Chattanooga and take a Tennessee history class, and at the end of the year they would give her a diploma.

Well, she attended UTC for a year and at the end of the year went back and showed them that she had taken a Tennessee history class. Well, they backed out of the deal. They refused to give her a diploma. At this point, my dad got transferred back up north. So she enrolled at U of Delaware as a transfer student. They transferred her year of classes at UTC and never asked to see a HS diploma. So she graduated college and got an MBA, but has no HS diploma.

Not sure that helps at all, but I can sympathize about the ridiculousness of the Tennessee school system.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 11, 2020 12:51PM
Spoke with a kindergarten teacher in a small South Carolina town yesterday. They will return with 10 children attending at a time, in masks and at separate tables.

Children will attend alternating days of the week which will be hell for poor working parents unless employers get with the program.

Teachers are required to purchase the extra cleaning supplies with their own money, the school says it has no funds for it but requires them to clean all surfaces with a Lysol-type product after each class.

I'm looking for donations for her school, which serves a low income community.

Her online experience last spring was terrible. Children logged in from a loud McDonald's where their parent was working or it's the only place they can get internet, or from home with noise and siblings running around and no adult present, or never at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2020 12:52PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 11, 2020 12:52PM
Canvas is just a shell. It's a Learning Management System. It doesn't teach anything. It's not a program. It's a way to organize the "stuff" for online teaching. You will still see a hodgepodge of stuff. Only now, the hodgepodge will be "organized" into modules. Unless the district has undertaken a fairly robust inservice program for teachers in how to successfully transition to a virtual teaching setting, there won't be much change, and there'll be more teachers who throw their hands up in the air.

In general, it'd take at least a few weeks in the summer of fairly rigorous in-service training just to get up to speed on how to use a LMS. That's not delivering instruction, it's just learning how to use the system. Then there's the actual teaching strategies like making videos for instruction, holding Zoom sessions successfully, helping students that don't get it, students that need more time, and students that need to move more deeply into the material, collecting work, grading and returning work, and all the stuff that goes with that.

It's not likely that much of the online teaching you see this fall will look any different than it did in the spring - schools and teachers just haven't had enough time to relearn the dance and practice it yet. That's why the big push for back in school is so strong. No need to relearn anything if everything's face-to-face. But unless there are significant safeguards, any teacher who goes back into a classroom right now is - seriously – putting their life on the line. In some cases, for about $125 a day. How many of them are going to decide that "the kids" just aren't worth that risk? Probably not that many, but for every one of them that does, it'll mean a less qualified person in their place - and that's a real problem.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 11, 2020 01:43PM
The community college idea is sounding better all the time. He’s 17, so would need a letter from the Superintendent to take the GED. Or he might be able to wait until he’s 18 (December) when the letter’s not needed. We’re not too worried about him passing it today, even without Senior year. We’d have to start talking to some community colleges now and see what they advise, also.

The wildcard option here is that we could send him to live with my dad in MO. He lives next door to a good H.S. in a good district, but I no longer know what that really means today. Oh and we’d have to kick out my nephew, who decided to leave home in a rift with his dad.

My 9th grader has fewer choices. Still not understanding why there’s the hard line drawn for extra-curricular activities. I suspect that by handing the kids over to what’s probably a charter (which our County has never been authorized for previously) they’ll literally be “out” of the school district, which again is retarded but whatever. It breaks my heart that she has to choose between two impossible choices, or that we have to choose for her.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 11, 2020 01:46PM
Quote
Ombligo

I hope this helps some.

It does. What you describe is a rich person's environment compared to where we are. We can afford to buy laptops for our kids, many here cannot, and unless things have changed, the district can't either. In March they just sent everyone home. That's when the school year ended completely.

Oh, but they did once point to some stuff on PBS the kids could tune into.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 11, 2020 01:49PM
Quote
rz
Let me relay an interesting story to you about my sister. When I was going into Jr. High, we moved to Tennessee. The educational system there was easily two years behind the schools we came from. My sister was going into her Junior year. They basically put her in all Senior level classes. When she finished the year, they told her they had nothing left to teach her... except there was a state law that in order to graduate, she had to take a year of Tennessee history. They told her to enroll at UT-Chattanooga and take a Tennessee history class, and at the end of the year they would give her a diploma.

Well, she attended UTC for a year and at the end of the year went back and showed them that she had taken a Tennessee history class. Well, they backed out of the deal. They refused to give her a diploma. At this point, my dad got transferred back up north. So she enrolled at U of Delaware as a transfer student. They transferred her year of classes at UTC and never asked to see a HS diploma. So she graduated college and got an MBA, but has no HS diploma.

Not sure that helps at all, but I can sympathize about the ridiculousness of the Tennessee school system.

My wife spent several years growing up in this town. We're only here because her mom is here, and because she offered us a house to stay in. I think there was a year my wife drove into Nashville with an older brother to attend high school but had to finish here. She remembers getting textbooks she'd already read the year before when going to school in Nashville.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 11, 2020 01:52PM
Quote
rz
Let me relay an interesting story to you about my sister. When I was going into Jr. High, we moved to Tennessee. The educational system there was easily two years behind the schools we came from. My sister was going into her Junior year. They basically put her in all Senior level classes. When she finished the year, they told her they had nothing left to teach her... except there was a state law that in order to graduate, she had to take a year of Tennessee history. They told her to enroll at UT-Chattanooga and take a Tennessee history class, and at the end of the year they would give her a diploma.

Well, she attended UTC for a year and at the end of the year went back and showed them that she had taken a Tennessee history class. Well, they backed out of the deal. They refused to give her a diploma. At this point, my dad got transferred back up north. So she enrolled at U of Delaware as a transfer student. They transferred her year of classes at UTC and never asked to see a HS diploma. So she graduated college and got an MBA, but has no HS diploma.

Not sure that helps at all, but I can sympathize about the ridiculousness of the Tennessee school system.

That’s a great story! Except for the part where they did her dirty by backing out of the deal.



It is what it is.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: davec
Date: July 11, 2020 01:56PM
Quote
bfd
But unless there are significant safeguards, any teacher who goes back into a classroom right now is - seriously – putting their life on the line. In some cases, for about $125 a day. How many of them are going to decide that "the kids" just aren't worth that risk? Probably not that many, but for every one of them that does, it'll mean a less qualified person in their place - and that's a real problem.

Excellent point! The other issue the districts are not yet facing is availability of substitute teachers when teaching staff get sick from COVID-19. I can't imagine there will be many subs excited about substitute teaching in what would likely be a COVID hotspot classroom.

Dave



...on the trailing edge of technology.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 11, 2020 02:05PM
Quote
bfd
Canvas is just a shell. It's a Learning Management System. It doesn't teach anything. It's not a program. It's a way to organize the "stuff" for online teaching. You will still see a hodgepodge of stuff. Only now, the hodgepodge will be "organized" into modules. Unless the district has undertaken a fairly robust inservice program for teachers in how to successfully transition to a virtual teaching setting, there won't be much change, and there'll be more teachers who throw their hands up in the air.

In general, it'd take at least a few weeks in the summer of fairly rigorous in-service training just to get up to speed on how to use a LMS. That's not delivering instruction, it's just learning how to use the system. Then there's the actual teaching strategies like making videos for instruction, holding Zoom sessions successfully, helping students that don't get it, students that need more time, and students that need to move more deeply into the material, collecting work, grading and returning work, and all the stuff that goes with that.

It's not likely that much of the online teaching you see this fall will look any different than it did in the spring - schools and teachers just haven't had enough time to relearn the dance and practice it yet. That's why the big push for back in school is so strong. No need to relearn anything if everything's face-to-face. But unless there are significant safeguards, any teacher who goes back into a classroom right now is - seriously – putting their life on the line. In some cases, for about $125 a day. How many of them are going to decide that "the kids" just aren't worth that risk? Probably not that many, but for every one of them that does, it'll mean a less qualified person in their place - and that's a real problem.

One of the teachers we know will be homeschooling her daughter I think. Not returning to her job.


... I work with instructors who teach to adult learners. We're in the process of breaking away from a partner company who controls our LMS (a combination of Drupal front door tied to Moodle). It's trash. It has so many problems, and the service from this company is horrible. But they possess ALL of our data due to a miserable CEO who made this deal a few years go. He also literally helped create a competitor by his stupidity of shitcanning our previous partner, who was great.

When covid hit and the various universities and training center partners lost their mind, they begged us to let our content be taught virtually. And so we quickly gave a few one-off exceptions so that cohorts could be closed out.

That begat an "interim virtual" model for one core product, with training and materials ... and then instructors mainly listening not to us (who grant them license to teach ... ) but to the people PAYING them to teach, with a wild west idea for how may sessions, length of sessions, sessions per day and so on. It's been a pain in the ass trying to reel everyone in so that our brand, marketplace position and reputation, and oh yeah, the STUDENTS are not harmed.

We will not have anything concrete and non-interim in place at work until 2021 ... it takes a long time to adapt to virtual instruction AND it cannot be a full substitute regardless. I had someone from one of our chapters ask me point-blank why one of our qualified instructors simply can't turn on the computer, push a few buttons and teach online.

We make chapters and other partners sign a contract --- the regular one that only addresses in-class courses --- that includes examples of acceptable seating arrangements, # of students per table and so on. It's got nothing to do with safety, it's about ensuring the right learning environment. So we care about that, but this yahoo (a non-instructor ... ) wondered what's the "big deal" about switching to virtual.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 11, 2020 02:07PM
Quote
bfd
It's not likely that much of the online teaching you see this fall will look any different than it did in the spring - schools and teachers just haven't had enough time to relearn the dance and practice it yet. That's why the big push for back in school is so strong. No need to relearn anything if everything's face-to-face. But unless there are significant safeguards, any teacher who goes back into a classroom right now is - seriously – putting their life on the line. In some cases, for about $125 a day. How many of them are going to decide that "the kids" just aren't worth that risk? Probably not that many, but for every one of them that does, it'll mean a less qualified person in their place - and that's a real problem.

The REAL problem is that we are forced to choose between bringing kids back into the schools or continuing on with at-home “learning” that has been shown to be anything but. Think COVID infection rates are climbing now? Wait until kids are back in school — infection rates will SKYROCKET far beyond anything we’ve seen so far. Death rates will closely follow.

But subjecting kids to another year of at-home learning will serious stunt their educational progress. At least here in Los Angeles, at-home learning produced results far below those hoped for. bfd is right: K-12 educators simply haven’t had enough time to learn how to do this well. And that’s only one of many factors that affect the effectiveness of at-home learning, many of which are 100% out of the administration’s control.

This is a true no-win situation.



It is what it is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2020 02:08PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 11, 2020 02:38PM
One almost wants to advocate for kids just 'taking a year off' at this point … maybe they'd actually learn some things they couldn't learn any other way … unfortunately, that wouldn't necessarily be great things for many students.

One size will not fit all in this situation, and unfortunately, that's all that our leaders seem capable of offering to students and parents right now.

This whole back to school thing is going to blow the top off of anything we've seen so far in 2020 in just a few more weeks. Ugh.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 11, 2020 03:06PM
As I started to read your post, for your son, heading straight to college was one of my thoughts. Also, some combo of home schooling and real world experiences. Jobs in his areas of interest, community service/volunteering, or some form of activism would provide social benefits and useful knowledge. We’re living in interesting times, that offer interesting opportunities for growth and learning.

For your daughter, a tougher time to be separated from school and social circles. Regarding basketball, a structured training schedule, watching film, and working out with a select few friends/teammates might be helpful. One could look to what is happening with pros and postponed Olympics, etc. for some insight.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 11, 2020 03:48PM
Thanks. I know it’s up to us to provide some training structure, with or without a school coach. She’s not driven enough to get off the couch otherwise.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: July 11, 2020 04:17PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
The REAL problem is that we are forced to choose between bringing kids back into the schools or continuing on with at-home “learning” that has been shown to be anything but. Think COVID infection rates are climbing now? Wait until kids are back in school — infection rates will SKYROCKET far beyond anything we’ve seen so far. Death rates will closely follow.

I doubt it. Death rates from COVID19 are tiny for people under 45 years old. The biggest threat is to elderly teachers (and parents?) with serious health problems ('co-morbitities'):

[www.acsh.org]

Some European countries are re-opening schools. Let's see how they do.

/Mr Lynn



"Hillbilly at Harvard"
Honky-tonk Country and Bluegrass
Founded in 1948 by Pappy Ben Minnich
Saturdays 9am - 1pm Eastern
WHRB-FM, Cambridge, MA
Streaming at [www.WHRB.org]
Be there!

The HAH weblog: [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

Topical weblog: [walkingcreekworld.wordpress.com]

On the river in Saxonville.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 11, 2020 05:14PM
I would take any conclusions posted by ACSH with a very large grain of salt.

I would not compare the COVID-19 and education issue here in the US with most European countries, totally different level of cases and prevalence at this time.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 11, 2020 05:27PM
Quote
mrlynn
Death rates from COVID19 are tiny for people under 45 years old. The biggest threat is to elderly teachers (and parents?) with serious health problems ('co-morbitities'):..

Don't want to get into a debate that pushes this to the other side...

It's simply too soon to tell what's going on in kids.

They're finding some really weird brain damage in kids and teens and other oddities that may point to problems that may manifest months or years from now, even with the mildest of symptoms.

So, we don't have a great idea of what "the biggest threat" is when kids go back to school.

...

I wonder whether it's too late to push for a hybrid approach.

Some schools in my area are going to a four-day school week with half of the school present on day one, the other half on day two, etc.

Keeps classroom sizes down.

When not in school, they will have online/video sessions.

Friday is for teachers to work on curriculum and pre-record some of their videos.



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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 11, 2020 06:44PM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
The REAL problem is that we are forced to choose between bringing kids back into the schools or continuing on with at-home “learning” that has been shown to be anything but. Think COVID infection rates are climbing now? Wait until kids are back in school — infection rates will SKYROCKET far beyond anything we’ve seen so far. Death rates will closely follow.

I doubt it. Death rates from COVID19 are tiny for people under 45 years old. The biggest threat is to elderly teachers (and parents?) with serious health problems ('co-morbitities'):

[www.acsh.org]

Some European countries are re-opening schools. Let's see how they do.

/Mr Lynn

Maybe you haven’t been keeping up with the news: average age of persons infected is declining, presumably due to massive exposures during the recent protests. More younger people than ever are dying from COVID, too — all during a time when school-aged children have been kept home as part of the effort to flatten the curve.

We’re already seeing what happens when those efforts end too soon; now throw kids going back to school into the mix. What do you think will happen then? The only thing that CAN happen: MASSIVE numbers of infected kids. It’s a mathematical certainty.

You are correct — death rates among younger people are lower that older people. But some young people DO die from this disease — increase the number of infected young people and you increase the number of young people who die from the disease. That is also a mathematical certainty.

Note that my original statement did not specifically claim an increased death rate would be due only to more young people dying. Of course that’s not true. Sick kids at home increases the risk to parents and grandparents of catching and dying from the disease.

Finally, as others have pointed out, you ABSOLUTELY can’t look at what is happening in other countries to predict what will happen in the U.S when it comes to anything COVID-related. With few exceptions, our leadership in this country, from the Oval Office down to the lowest levels of local government, has been woefully (and criminally, IMHO) negligent in its response to this pandemic. A discussion of all the different forms this failure has taken would require more time than I care to give to the topic, but suffice it to say that the way the pandemic continues to unfold in America at this point is unique to us and perhaps a few third-world countries with the merest fraction of resources that are available to the U.S.

Some recent info on the subject: [www.theatlantic.com]



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2020 06:47PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 11, 2020 08:29PM
presumably due to massive exposures during the recent protests.

My back-of-the-napkin, trick-knee understanding is that the masked protestors were less of a threat than the myriad beach-and-lake going, party- and bar-hopping, cafe and resturant-going young professionals are. In other words people convinced they’ll live forever, and have a few jingles in their pocket ready to spend, so thanks for letting me keep my YouTube Approved hair style.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: The UnDoug
Date: July 11, 2020 08:47PM
My daughter is going into her senior year of high school. Her school is *extremely* prepared for all possibilities, and I'm completely comfortable with her attending in-person. If her school were not prepared, as you say yours is not, deckeda, I would definitely not be as ready to send her.



[www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: July 12, 2020 01:08AM
Quote
The UnDoug
My daughter is going into her senior year of high school. Her school is *extremely* prepared for all possibilities, and I'm completely comfortable with her attending in-person. If her school were not prepared, as you say yours is not, deckeda, I would definitely not be as ready to send her.

What does this look like? I've yet to see a single school post a well thought out extremely prepared complete plan.



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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 12, 2020 01:54AM
Quote
deckeda
presumably due to massive exposures during the recent protests.

My back-of-the-napkin, trick-knee understanding is that the masked protestors were less of a threat than the myriad beach-and-lake going, party- and bar-hopping, cafe and resturant-going young professionals are. In other words people convinced they’ll live forever, and have a few jingles in their pocket ready to spend, so thanks for letting me keep my YouTube Approved hair style.

Yes, that is a huge factor too.



It is what it is.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: July 12, 2020 05:30AM
I posted this on the other side and on a friends FB post. I can't see this whole school reopening being anything other than a massive shitshow.

There is no option for virtual learning. Really. Its something that schools have made up in the last month or two. Hardly a good structure to base an education on. There are some online resources in place sure. But they're JUST resources. Like the LMS. Plus everyone uses different ones or none at all. And different teachers use it differently. Which means different usefulness to students.

There's no money for virtual learning. Again. I've said this before. We are the exception. Not the rule. At least in my 13 yr old's school. She has access to a phone. A tablet. A laptop. High-speed internet. She is an only child. So no sharing. My wife works at home. We literally have the perfect storm for her to flourish with online schooling (minus the whole social thing). But that's not the case with many of her close friends and certainly not for the rest of her schoolmates.

Which leads me to money. We have "stuff". Most families don't. Daughter's school in 6th grade, everyone had laptops they could take home. 7th grade (last year) some dipshit forgot to fill out the grant paperwork, so they had to make do with the leftovers from the prior year. But like I said, my daughter had a laptop already so we were not impacted. It has been and still is a sad state of affairs when teachers have to pay for their charges supplies. My GOD this infuriates me to no end. They make next to no money and then have to use that supply their students?!?!? What in the actual @#$%& is that??? Requiring cleaning and sanitation supplies but not supplying them? That just seems like a bridge too far.

And literally NONE of this has even addressed the virus. Do any of these fucksticks get the irony of them having a zoom meeting to discuss how we need to send our children back to school in person? This virus has been around for what? half a year? I'm no scientist but how in the hell are supposed to have data on what will or won't happen over time? We're just guessing here. But we're guessing with our kid's lives. I asked my girl how she would feel if she went back to school and one of her teachers caught it and died. Or one of her friends. Is one ok? Two? How many can we sacrifice so that we can move on with pretending like this virus doesn't exist?

S H I T S H O W.




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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: July 12, 2020 06:47AM
Quote
JoeH
I would take any conclusions posted by ACSH with a very large grain of salt.

Here's the data from the CDC:

[data.cdc.gov]

/Mr Lynn
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 12, 2020 04:36PM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
JoeH
I would take any conclusions posted by ACSH with a very large grain of salt.

Here's the data from the CDC:

[data.cdc.gov]

/Mr Lynn

Not questioning the data, just any conclusions ACSH makes from it. They have their agenda, it is not very science based.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 12, 2020 05:43PM
I completely understand the position of if you don't attend classes in school, you can't play sports or participate in other in person school activities. These after school activities would create as much or more risk than attending classes alone. Think about it. Your daughter would be exposed to the players on her team, the teams that they compete against. IMO, the risk is probably the same and maybe higher for sports programs, especially indoor ones where players are in close proximity, touching the same ball, and breathing hard.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 12, 2020 08:07PM
OK, so let them play sports and compel them to attend non-distancing, full day classes? Are you sure about your understanding here?

At least if she were at home during that day she would not be spreading or getting the virus around school.

I don’t really think they should have basketball, either, but we’re in this no man’s land of feeling like she’ll miss out. It’s painful.
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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 12, 2020 08:32PM
Quote
bazookaman
I asked my girl how she would feel if she went back to school and one of her teachers caught it and died. Or one of her friends. Is one ok? Two? How many can we sacrifice so that we can move on with pretending like this virus doesn't exist?

From what I can tell, Betsy DeVos' answer to that is simply that any children not enrolled in private schools with endowments from many multi-millionaire parents must attend school and die if necessary to keep their parents slaving to fill the coffers of the elite. That's her "promise to American families."



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Re: What is happening with in-class vs online learning for K-12 ??
Posted by: Sam3
Date: July 14, 2020 03:56AM
I'm surprised at the view that we can't look at the data from other countries and use that to shape what we do and try. This is illogical thinking which is below this forum. It seems that K-6 kids are fairing quite well, they neither get the virus, nor transmit the virus. That starts to change, it seems with puberty. There was a Washington Post article this weekend that looked at other countries school plans, some of the data comes from countries who had school open during the late spring and summer.

Quote
Washington Post
Public health officials and researchers say they have not detected much coronavirus transmission among students or significant spikes in community spread as a result of schools being in session — at least for students under 12.
Virologists warn there may be additional spread that hasn’t been recognized, since testing asymptomatic people, particularly children, remains uncommon. But in many cases, young children who test positive have gotten it from someone in their family and do not appear to have infected others in school. Dig into reports of two or three elementary students with the virus, and often it turns out they’re siblings.

Quote
Washington Post
In Finland, when public health researchers combed through test results of children under 16, they found no evidence of school spread and no change in the rate of infection for that age cohort after schools closed in March or reopened in May. In fact, Finland’s infection rate among children was similar to Sweden’s, even though Sweden never closed its schools, according to a report published Tuesday by researchers from the two countries.
In Sweden, researchers also found that staff members at day cares and primary schools were no more likely than people working in other professions to contract the virus.

[www.washingtonpost.com]



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