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do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 29, 2020 08:13PM
we are selling the old house and buyer's inspector found a water leak under this sink and sent this picture. We never noticed anything like that. I went to the house today and used the sink, I put paper towels under sink, I touched the drain all round, I cannot feel any water there. I fill the sink and let water in the overflow. I pull the plug and then a lot of water went down the drain all at once. the area shown in this picture stayed dry.

I thought perhaps he mixed the bathrooms, went and checked the other 2 bathrooms, no leak that I can find.

I am confused about the light pattern in this picture. What causes that?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2020 08:14PM by space-time.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: lost in space
Date: July 29, 2020 08:22PM
Looks like a bead of water just below the knurled/serrated ring. Possible that it's not water at all, but the inspector stands to lose more from not noting a fault than falsely noting one.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2020 08:23PM by lost in space.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 29, 2020 08:32PM
If the potential buyers bring it up, consider fixing it only after they've shown the problem. You've done your due diligence.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 29, 2020 08:35PM
....where's Waldo.....????



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 29, 2020 08:43PM
Quote
mattkime
If the potential buyers bring it up, consider fixing it only after they've shown the problem. You've done your due diligence.

they did bring it up. It was one of the 12 items they bought up, of which 8 or 9 were recommendations, and only a fe ware real issue that we will address.

A handrail which needs to be secured better, a drive-plate missing, a water leak under sink and an older roof leak. Rook was replaced 3 years ago by HOA and there is no active leak that I am aware, but the plywood showed some moisture. That is the only issue IMHO. it's not in a living area, and I am willing to issue them a credit for that or fix it if I have to.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 29, 2020 08:47PM
Another issue: I have this pipe draining into a PVC pipe that was already there when I bought the house. I guess it drains outside somewhere, I am not sure where. The inspector said this below. They want me to cut the PVC pipe so they can see the end of the copper pipe???

Hot water heater TPR overflow pipe discharge pipe not visible (it must be visible for monitoring) - repair is needed for safety. Hot water heater appears recently replaced (2012), request warranty / permit information from seller.

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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 29, 2020 08:48PM
You tightened it enough to stop the leak. Right?



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 29, 2020 08:51PM
Quote
Speedy
You tightened it enough to stop the leak. Right?

I think I know what you mean.

No, I didn't "tighten it". If there is a leak, I will fix it or I will issue a $250 credit. that should cover one hour of labor ($130) and some parts. but if there is no leak, what should I "tighten"?
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 29, 2020 09:04PM
That is likely a loose fitting. Just snug up the ring, or replace the $1 gasket inside.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 29, 2020 09:05PM
Quote
space-time
Another issue: I have this pipe draining into a PVC pipe that was already there when I bought the house. I guess it drains outside somewhere, I am not sure where. The inspector said this below. They want me to cut the PVC pipe so they can see the end of the copper pipe???

Hot water heater TPR overflow pipe discharge pipe not visible (it must be visible for monitoring) - repair is needed for safety. Hot water heater appears recently replaced (2012), request warranty / permit information from seller.


Looks like there's enough gap between the copper and PVC pipes to snake down a USB inspection camera and take a picture of the end of the copper pipe. And you get a new toy out of the deal.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 29, 2020 09:05PM
Quote
space-time
and I am willing to issue them a credit for that or fix it if I have to.

This is all negotiation. I think you can refuse to fix something but they can back out. Depends how badly you need to sell.

That said, these don't seem like big issues. A little research and elbow grease might fix them.

I'm typically able to understand these things but I have no @#$%& clue what concerns surround that hot water heater.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 29, 2020 09:08PM
How good is their offer? Are other people interested in the property?

(And what mattkime said, I was going to post essentially the same thing.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2020 09:10PM by btfc.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: Carm
Date: July 29, 2020 09:11PM
My TPR valve has a solid copper connection from heater to outdoor no drain line like yours. It should probably be a solid connection to PVC pipe. My water heater doesn’t have a leak pan under it like yours does. None of the four houses I’ve lived have had them.

What’s that metal ring in the first photo? Is that for a pivot rod that is missing? Below that is the only reflection of light I see.

But as mentioned, the inspector wants to find as many potential problems as possible to cover their ass.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 29, 2020 09:12PM
Quote
btfc
How good is their offer? Are other people interested in the property?

we put the house at 329,900 and got 8 offers, only 2 below, 4 our listed price and 2 over asking price, One was 335 cash (this one we took) and another one that came day later with 336 mortgage that eventually increased to 338,500 after we went to attorney review with the cash offer.

and another dozen or so calls and request for showing after the house was listed as contingent on redfin. so plenty of buyers. for some reason, low inventory here. And plenty of buyers. it's a sellers market.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 29, 2020 09:20PM
Your plan seems solid then, address the serious issues and knock off a little cash.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 29, 2020 09:22PM
Quote
Carm
But as mentioned, the inspector wants to find as many potential problems as possible to cover their ass.

I had one that flagged a 1 year old water heater as corroded, leaking, and beyond it's service life. He thought he was calculating the age from the first two digits of the serial number, but instead he was looking at the model number that started with 92 and the buyer's agent was trying to tell us that the water heater was from 1992. A scan of the purchase receipt as well as showing the actual serial number and a manufacturing date that was close to the purchase date, and pointing out the model number that was on the receipt and started with 92, cleared that up.

Same guy also flagged "burnt wires" in the attic in the same vicinity of where he noted rodent droppings. It was rodent urine on the white Romex insulation.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: Carm
Date: July 29, 2020 09:25PM
GGD, I had an electrified rat in my attic before I sold it.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 29, 2020 09:34PM
Quote
Carm
GGD, I had an electrified rat in my attic before I sold it.

Years ago we had a pet rabbit that liked to chew on cords in the house, the old twin lead TV antenna wire was a favorite, but I also found that she chewed on the AC power cord for one of the computers where it was plugged into a wall outlet under a desk. She got down to bare copper and when I found it I told my wife that it almost became a self correcting problem.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 29, 2020 09:40PM
The pipe below the water heater is PVC, and so the copper pipe is just emptying into it, not connected to anything.

And so what? If the water heater has a problem that causes water to exit the valve, gravity will take it down before it can flow up, right?

When we sold our last place their inspector listed all sorts of creative things, none of which I fixed except with a clearly worded letter that refuted every single issue, especially since what they demanded I fix would have resulted in a house with less value. Sometimes people are nutty. But curiously, they didn’t care about some of my creative electrical add-ons (one or two of which I actually didn’t complete) and the deck update that had not been inspected nor permitted.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 29, 2020 10:29PM
Quote
deckeda
But curiously, they didn’t care about some of my creative electrical add-ons (one or two of which I actually didn’t complete) and the deck update that had not been inspected nor permitted.

This confirms my every belief about home inspections.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 29, 2020 10:40PM
- 42) the pattern is the flash reflecting off the smooth china bottom of the sink. The photo is very poorly focused. It looks like there could be a drop of water on the glove at the end of the index finger, and maybe on the transition between the knurled ring and the pipe below it (below the hex nut).

-45) I would cut the PVC pipe 3 inches below the end of the copper pipe, and glue on a 1-1/2 inch (or is it 1 inch ? ) to 3 inch reducer with 3 inches of 3 inch pipe. This makes a funnel that is easy to see into and should catch most of the splash.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 29, 2020 11:21PM
Looks like a bead of water just below the knurled/serrated ring.

That's what it looks like to me.

And yes, it's poorly focused.




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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: davester
Date: July 30, 2020 12:25AM
Forget about it! Unless you're talking about many thousands of dollars this stuff isn't worth worrying about. Give the buyer a credit for what it would take to fix the problem and walk away. Don't spend another minute worrying about it.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 30, 2020 04:53AM
We just went through this with my son's house.

Large hole in vinyl siding. It was where an outside faucet came out of the house and was from the original construction in 1992. The pipe was 3/4", the hole was 1". The house has been sold at least four times with it never being mentioned previously. There was some minor dryrot in a decorative column that needed to be replaced (I did the other column two years ago for $35).

We had agreed to repairs totaling $500 in the contract. Not surprisingly the repair bill came out to exactly $500.

The inspector also pointed to a 6-inch piece of pressure treated 4x4 that was sitting on the front porch as wood rot and need to be remedied by a professional. I let the sanitation engineers remove it on their weekly rounds.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: d4
Date: July 30, 2020 06:36AM
Coming from someone who is not a plumber or inspector, just from looking at a photo, that water heater looks janky to me. If I had just bought a new water heater and had a licensed plumber install it, and I come down to look at it the first time to see his work, I'd be like WTF? I can't imagine that it's up to code and passes inspection.

Did you hire an inspector during the purchase of your new home? A line listing of nit-picky stuff is the norm. Why is this an issue? Just throw some bucks back to the buyer and be done with it.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 30, 2020 08:10AM
This is why I held out for a cash offer, no contingencies, on the last house (deceased relative) I sold.

(everybody looking at it had already brought contractors along)
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 30, 2020 09:24AM
Quote
d4
Coming from someone who is not a plumber or inspector, just from looking at a photo, that water heater looks janky to me. If I had just bought a new water heater and had a licensed plumber install it, and I come down to look at it the first time to see his work, I'd be like WTF? I can't imagine that it's up to code and passes inspection.

Did you hire an inspector during the purchase of your new home? A line listing of nit-picky stuff is the norm. Why is this an issue? Just throw some bucks back to the buyer and be done with it.

what is wrong with the water heater? the image shows only the bottom part, I could post pictures of the top. Yes, it was installed by a licensed plumber and yes, it passed inspection. There was no drain pan on the old one, I added drain pan and I even connected the drain pan to the drain. if the is a water leak, it will not damage the floor and ceiling below.

Yes, I plan to give the buyer a credit for a few other small issues.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: d4
Date: July 30, 2020 09:54AM
Quote
space-time
What is wrong with the water heater?

I have no idea if anything is wrong with it. But as an admitted "non-plumber" it looks like a homeowner tinkered with it with homebrew improvements after it was inspected. Would it pass inspection now? In it's current state? I don't know.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 30, 2020 10:37AM
.....can't see when nephew or niece leaks......but you still have to change the diaper.....



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: modelamac
Date: July 30, 2020 12:01PM
space-time,

If I were in your shoes, I would:

1. State in a letter that extensive use of the sink has produced no leak to fix. You will fix what the Inspector can prove is leaking, or allow a reasonable amount to have it done.

2. Water heater overflow tube: Cut the PVC off below the end of the copper tube, and add a coupling to the top of it to act as a funnel.

3. Complete the deal and walk away.



Remember how when you were little
you could just rip off your diaper and
just run around naked and everyone
thought it was so cute and funny?


Anyway, I need bail money.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2020 12:02PM by modelamac.
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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 30, 2020 02:08PM
Quote

what is wrong with the water heater?

Just to be devil's advocate, I think if the inspector cannot see the end of the pipe, it's not out of line to mention it. I also degree that there is the element of negotiation present ( i.e., through it against the wall and see if a credit is forthcoming). Ultimately, I would second davester's advice.



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Re: do you see a water leak in this picture?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 30, 2020 07:00PM
OK, I found the water leak. it is so small, I am surprised the inspector found it.

I offered a credit, if they insist on me fixing it, I will redo the drain this weekend.

The water heater passed inspection as it, I didn't tough it after that. how could it not pass inspection now? even if they changed the code, old stuff should be grandfathered in.
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