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Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 01, 2020 02:59PM
My home inspector recommended a water powered backup sump pump. He said in extent of prolonged power outage, the 12V battery will eventually die and then what do you do? These pumps run on city water. I never recall having a water outage here in USA.

Here are some examples

[www.amazon.com]

[www.tanecorp.com]

What do you think? I am thinking to get one of these, it is around $200 and then I don't even need the 12 V pump and never have to deal with battery maintenance.
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: August 01, 2020 03:01PM
Need to check local codes. They're not permitted in a lot of jurisdictions.
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 01, 2020 03:04PM
Quote
macphanatic
Need to check local codes. They're not permitted in a lot of jurisdictions.

I wonder why not?
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 01, 2020 03:05PM
HUGE waste of water, and at least in Seattle, how much water you use also raises your sewer bill too.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: GGD
Date: August 01, 2020 03:15PM
Quote
Racer X
HUGE waste of water, and at least in Seattle, how much water you use also raises your sewer bill too.

But it's a backup pump, should only kick in if the primary pump fails or if there's a power outage and the sump is full, the rest of the time it shouldn't be using any water.
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 01, 2020 04:42PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
Racer X
HUGE waste of water, and at least in Seattle, how much water you use also raises your sewer bill too.

But it's a backup pump, should only kick in if the primary pump fails or if there's a power outage and the sump is full, the rest of the time it shouldn't be using any water.

In a power ourtage situation, the municipal supply can also be affected. These water supply powered pumps tend to use several gallons of water for every gallon they pump, adds to the load on both the supply and the drainage. May not matter if just one pump in one house goes active, but a town having potentially hundreds going active at a time would be a problem.
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 01, 2020 05:41PM
I think the failed battery issue has been caused in the past by cheap ferro-resonant transformer-based chargers ruining the battery. Modern 4+ stage electronic chargers can get a decade or more out of a battery.

Most of those marine bilge pumps in the 1000 GPH range only draw 2-3 amps when running. In intermittent use, you could get multiple days run time from a group 27 deep cycle.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: GGD
Date: August 01, 2020 07:38PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
GGD
Quote
Racer X
HUGE waste of water, and at least in Seattle, how much water you use also raises your sewer bill too.

But it's a backup pump, should only kick in if the primary pump fails or if there's a power outage and the sump is full, the rest of the time it shouldn't be using any water.

In a power ourtage situation, the municipal supply can also be affected. These water supply powered pumps tend to use several gallons of water for every gallon they pump, adds to the load on both the supply and the drainage. May not matter if just one pump in one house goes active, but a town having potentially hundreds going active at a time would be a problem.

The specs on the second model linked does give the water usage info, it's a bit more efficient than you were thinking, with a 60psi supply it can pump 2 gallons for every gallon of supply water. At 40psi it's about 1.46 gallons pumped per gallon used. But I can see the concern with a whole community using them for an extended power outage.

[www.tanecorp.com]
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 01, 2020 08:04PM
when Sandy hit us, I was living in a townhouse with wires underground and we did not lose power. Friends 2 miles away lost power for 7 days. In cases like that, I think a battery would not be that useful. There was a shortage of gasoline and generators.

Anyway, I am just exploring options. even a whole house generator is on the table.
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 01, 2020 08:10PM
If you can get a dual fuel, or one to run off a natural gas or big propane tank, the fuel won't go bad, or mess up a carbeurator from infrequent use.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: August 01, 2020 09:09PM
I always liked the idea of a water-powered backup.

But with a battery system, you can get a solar panel to charge it.



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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 01, 2020 09:16PM
Quote
AllGold
I always liked the idea of a water-powered backup.

But with a battery system, you can get a solar panel to charge it.

Even a 100 watt panel would put out 2-3 amps 12v on a cloudy day I bet. The storm would likely be less than a day anyway. Great point. I see a number of them on the Jeffco site for $100.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 02, 2020 08:23AM
Quote
GGD
Quote
JoeH
Quote
GGD
Quote
Racer X
HUGE waste of water, and at least in Seattle, how much water you use also raises your sewer bill too.

But it's a backup pump, should only kick in if the primary pump fails or if there's a power outage and the sump is full, the rest of the time it shouldn't be using any water.

In a power ourtage situation, the municipal supply can also be affected. These water supply powered pumps tend to use several gallons of water for every gallon they pump, adds to the load on both the supply and the drainage. May not matter if just one pump in one house goes active, but a town having potentially hundreds going active at a time would be a problem.

The specs on the second model linked does give the water usage info, it's a bit more efficient than you were thinking, with a 60psi supply it can pump 2 gallons for every gallon of supply water. At 40psi it's about 1.46 gallons pumped per gallon used. But I can see the concern with a whole community using them for an extended power outage.

[www.tanecorp.com]

I see they have got the efficiency up, but then they also only give the figures for a 10' lift. That drops fairly quickly if you need any higher lift.
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: August 02, 2020 07:47PM
Why not get a second battery?
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 02, 2020 10:05PM
Quote
macphanatic
Why not get a second battery?


why not a Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: August 02, 2020 10:37PM
.....why ask why......???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 03, 2020 07:25AM
because
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: August 03, 2020 08:40AM
Quote
space-time
Quote
macphanatic
Why not get a second battery?


why not a Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?

Because they're not legal in a lot of places and as noted above, they are horribly inefficient and waste a ton of potable water.

If you're that concerned, pick up the small Harbor Freight Predator generator for under $400. Keep it in the box until you need it.
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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: August 03, 2020 06:57PM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
space-time
Quote
macphanatic
Why not get a second battery?


why not a Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?

Because they're not legal in a lot of places and as noted above, they are horribly inefficient and waste a ton of potable water.

If you're that concerned, pick up the small Harbor Freight Predator generator for under $400. Keep it in the box until you need it.

I don't think a generator is a good substitute for a backup sump pump. You have to be home and you have to set it up and start the generator. Further, you have to have two separate things work correctly to prevent flooding your basement: both the generator and the sump pump itself. Having a generator, even if it's permanently installed, wired and is auto-start won't protect you if the pump goes kaput.

As for a water-powered backup sump pump, it doesn't waste any water except for the rare occasions when the primary pump doesn't work. wink smiley



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Re: Water-Powered Back up Sump Pump?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 06, 2020 03:56PM
The only thing I have to add today is dammit! Amazon is spamming me sometimes twice a day with "helpful suggestions" for solar panels and bilge pumps.

I want to punch their programmers in their nuts, or maybe some bitch slaps for the ladies. I'll bitch slap the men, if you think its sexist to have two different rage outcomes. I'm reasonably evolved.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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