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Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 04, 2020 11:51PM
Is plain old telephone service still provided?

(I was wondering this as I stared at the phone line(s) coming into my house)



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 04, 2020 11:56PM
Yes, but it's not long for the world.

Discussion:
[potsandpansbyccg.com]



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: August 05, 2020 12:00AM
I requested two POTS lines for an elevator and fire alarm in a building. They dragged in a fiber cable and a converter box with a UPS built in that feeds a Cat6 with pairs spit out for analog lines.

I fail to see why I can't use my SIP phone system which does exactly the same thing. But somehow the local Telco's must be paying off building and fire inspectors. Either that or the inspectors aren't smart enough to figure out that those lines aren't really POTS.



C(-)ris
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: August 05, 2020 12:00AM
Probably not.

AT&T still has twisted pair entering my place, but they offer me U-verse, which means that twisted pair terminates at a fiber optic multiplexer in my neighborhood. I know this because fiber has not been run into my current neighborhood like it was in my old neighborhood when Winfirst tore everything up to run fiber.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: GGD
Date: August 05, 2020 12:03AM
I've still got three lines connected. About 2 1/2 years ago I even got AT&T to replace about 1/2 mile of cable (spanning 12 telephone poles) coming up to my area because the 1950's era paper insulated cable would short out when it rained and they were out of spare pairs to re-route my lines. That took 53 days of phone calls to make happen, they REALLY want POTS customers to go away and providing poor service seems to be one method they use.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 05, 2020 12:32AM
The copper is still attached to my house. For me, at least, they didn't cut the line when we signed up for FiOS. I have no idea if it can still be revived. The oldsters on my block who I'm sure would never give up the copper line are nearly gone.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: August 05, 2020 12:35AM
It will continue to exist for a few more years in locations where they have not yet run fiber in remote area.

When I lived in Sacramento, the phone company put in fiber to a box kitty corner from my apartment about 2002. In that box they put on analog to fiber digital converters, effectively making the box a central office and allowing them to obsolete hundreds of miles of copper wire that they never had to bother repairing ever again. I was close enough to the box that I occasionally got speeds over 56K with my Zoom dialup modem.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: testcase
Date: August 05, 2020 06:05AM
Check with YOUR state's PUC (Public Utilities Commission or, its' equivalent). THEY will be the final arbiter of exactly what service MUST be provided upon proper application. An acquaintance built a log home WAAAAAY upstate in NY. POTS lines were ~ five miles away and, the local telco balked at providing him with POTS service. He checked with NYS PUC and discovered that the local telco MUST provide at least basic service upon request. That was a LOT of telephone poles they had to install!
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: August 05, 2020 06:38AM
RCN converted our land line to digital, coming through their modem, so now it goes away if the power goes out.

I regret cancelling my two POTS business lines, which did not depend on house power. I think the copper lines are still connected to the interface outside the house, though, so it's possible I could resurrect them.

/Mr Lynn



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: August 05, 2020 07:16AM
....Snoop Dog says.....yes.......



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: rgG
Date: August 05, 2020 07:40AM
Quote
C(-)ris
I requested two POTS lines for an elevator and fire alarm in a building. They dragged in a fiber cable and a converter box with a UPS built in that feeds a Cat6 with pairs spit out for analog lines.

I fail to see why I can't use my SIP phone system which does exactly the same thing. But somehow the local Telco's must be paying off building and fire inspectors. Either that or the inspectors aren't smart enough to figure out that those lines aren't really POTS.

Yep, my neighbor had to have one for their elevator. I assume that everyone in our townhome community has to have one. It makes little sense for a residential elevator, but I am sure it is an old code that has yet to be changed.
My mom, age 89, still has her landline. Please, please don't ever take that away from her.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 05, 2020 07:48AM
Even if it does, good luck finding the provider. It is likely a small division of another company. There is a value to POTS to some people. If you are in an area with poor cell and no cable for instance. Likewise if you have unreliable utilities or cable service.

I would happily hook my 100-year-old mom up to POTS. She needs reliable 24-hour easy to use service for her health. Her cable provider goes out regularly and an attempt to use a cell was not successful do to her technology issues.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: August 05, 2020 08:56AM
Just because a house has copper lines that have existed since it was built does NOT mean it still has a direct line to a central office.



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: August 05, 2020 09:07AM
Yes. I keep it around for only one reason. 911. When I went through Yakima's Citizens Police Academy they told us that if a person calls from a cell phone they can eventually use cell towers to narrow down the origin to a 100m radius. If your emergency requires quick response and you are incapacitated, that lack of specificity is the difference between life and death. A landline is tied to a physical address. When the call is received it they know exactly where it's coming from. If you have a heart attack, if you don't receive CPR or aid from an AED or EMTs your odds of survival plummet with ever minute that passes. I mean, odds aren't good to begin so I want every advantage I can get.



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: August 05, 2020 09:16AM
Quote
ztirffritz
Yes. I keep it around for only one reason. 911. When I went through Yakima's Citizens Police Academy they told us that if a person calls from a cell phone they can eventually use cell towers to narrow down the origin to a 100m radius. If your emergency requires quick response and you are incapacitated, that lack of specificity is the difference between life and death. A landline is tied to a physical address. When the call is received it they know exactly where it's coming from. If you have a heart attack, if you don't receive CPR or aid from an AED or EMTs your odds of survival plummet with ever minute that passes. I mean, odds aren't good to begin so I want every advantage I can get.

Have you heard about e911? You can register an IP phone number (like one provisioned through Vonage) to a physical address, so that if you do call 911 they will have your address just as they would with a traditional POTS service number.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 05, 2020 10:07AM
Quote
mrlynn
I regret cancelling my two POTS business lines, which did not depend on house power. I think the copper lines are still connected to the interface outside the house, though, so it's possible I could resurrect them.

/Mr Lynn

As long as my cable modem (and the rest of my networking gear) is on a UPS, I can maintain an internet connection in a blackout.



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: August 05, 2020 10:12AM
When a lightning strike took out our telephone line years back, I didn't notice for a week, because no one in the house at that point ever really used it.

The other side of the coin is the cost when you don't want/need it. My mom had to keep her POTS in place b'c of her alarm system, which could not work with any other means. It was (what? $38/mo?) just for a single line with no frills so the alarm could communicate. (No wireless, didn't work on VOIP) She eventually switched to an alarm company that had wi-fi built in, and a cellular backup as part of the wall box. (and it was cheaper than her previous alarm bill, so bonus)



(BTW, it's spelled < y'all >.)
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: August 05, 2020 10:25AM
......the problem is most cost $30+/month for basic connection....that is just to maintain it.......it should be getting cheaper with all the cell access now and less people who use it but it isn't......and 1/2 of that is tax/charges.......



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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: rz
Date: August 05, 2020 10:48AM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
......the problem is most cost $30+/month for basic connection....that is just to maintain it.......it should be getting cheaper with all the cell access now and less people who use it but it isn't......and 1/2 of that is tax/charges.......

Yup. We kept ours basically for our alarm system until about 5 years ago, when the alarm company offered a cellular option. We switched over to Ooma after that and have been happy with it.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: Schpark
Date: August 05, 2020 11:04AM
I had kept it for my alarm as well until I found a board I could install in my system that allows it to communicate via ethernet and then setup internet monitoring. The best thing is there is no delay for the system to call the monitoring center so the response after an alarm is near instantaneous.

[www.eyezon.com]



"Without death, life would lose much of its meaning. My goal is to live in such a manner that I alter world in some fundamental way before I'm gone. As I get older and watch my son grow I realize I've already achieved my goal." - Ztirffritz
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: August 05, 2020 11:08AM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
mrlynn
I regret cancelling my two POTS business lines, which did not depend on house power. I think the copper lines are still connected to the interface outside the house, though, so it's possible I could resurrect them.

/Mr Lynn

As long as my cable modem (and the rest of my networking gear) is on a UPS, I can maintain an internet connection in a blackout.

Not true. You are at the mercy of your ISP, which does not have the same level of ultra redundant power backup that a traditional dial central office does. To start with, a DCO had an enormous battery backup system that was designed to provide service for at least an hour. You have no idea how huge these systems were unless you've actually seen one. These DCOs also had at least two huge generators backed up by an enormous underground diesel fuel tank. They could literally run for a week without refueling. These things were built and treated like critical wartime infrastructure. Not so with your ISP and their neighborhood fiber optic multiplexers. I always lose internet service with Comcast after about 15-20 in a power outage. Without Fail.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: August 05, 2020 11:11AM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
mrlynn
I regret cancelling my two POTS business lines, which did not depend on house power. I think the copper lines are still connected to the interface outside the house, though, so it's possible I could resurrect them.

/Mr Lynn

As long as my cable modem (and the rest of my networking gear) is on a UPS, I can maintain an internet connection in a blackout.

Power outages in some areas can last for weeks. How long is your UPS good for?

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: GGD
Date: August 05, 2020 11:18AM
Quote
mattkime
As long as my cable modem (and the rest of my networking gear) is on a UPS, I can maintain an internet connection in a blackout.

Have you tested that? I have all of my network gear on UPS, and if it's a very local blackout (a few houses) then Comcast's end is still up, but if it's a large one, like my entire town, then there's some external Comcast equipment that goes down too and I lose cable modem service.

In my previous house with DSL (when the entire run was copper to the central office), that DSL along with POTS voice service would stay up the entire time. Central offices had large battery banks and I think generators too, from back when reliability mattered to the phone company.

I'm thinking about StarLink as a possible emergency backup internet service in the future, in case of a large earthquake, or long power outages due to wildfire prevention.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: August 05, 2020 11:18AM
Quote
freeradical
These things were built and treated like critical wartime infrastructure.

Which they were.

Wonder if our systems now would do as well.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 05, 2020 12:28PM
Quote
GGD
Have you tested that?

Yes, the power has been out once due to line maintenance and other time due to an interesting interaction between fireworks and a utility pole.

and I've thought about what kind of power outage I need to be prepared for. Outages tent to be rare and quickly addressed across the state. No earthquakes or tropical storms here.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: vision63
Date: August 05, 2020 01:38PM
Quote
Ombligo
I would happily hook my 100-year-old mom up to POTS. She needs reliable 24-hour easy to use service for her health.

emoticon_love
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 05, 2020 03:44PM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
mattkime
Quote
mrlynn
I regret cancelling my two POTS business lines, which did not depend on house power. I think the copper lines are still connected to the interface outside the house, though, so it's possible I could resurrect them.

/Mr Lynn

As long as my cable modem (and the rest of my networking gear) is on a UPS, I can maintain an internet connection in a blackout.

Not true. You are at the mercy of your ISP, which does not have the same level of ultra redundant power backup that a traditional dial central office does. To start with, a DCO had an enormous battery backup system that was designed to provide service for at least an hour. You have no idea how huge these systems were unless you've actually seen one. These DCOs also had at least two huge generators backed up by an enormous underground diesel fuel tank. They could literally run for a week without refueling. These things were built and treated like critical wartime infrastructure. Not so with your ISP and their neighborhood fiber optic multiplexers. I always lose internet service with Comcast after about 15-20 in a power outage. Without Fail.

I never went for Comcr@p internet access when I still had cable, use a DSL connection instead. Part fo the reason was similar, any power outage in the area that was more than 15-30 minutes and the cable service would cut out. Even if my part of the street had power.

My DSL and phone service stays up under this kind of situation. I am within less than half a mile of the central office equipment building in town, if Verizon would keep up maintenance I would have better speeds. But their management changed about 8 years ago, they have been only doing the minimum upkeep on the wired equipment.
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Re: Does POTS still exist?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: August 05, 2020 03:57PM
....and what ever happened to....POTuS.......???



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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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