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Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 05, 2020 10:25AM
... I'm curious of my fellow forumites, those of who are teachers/instructors/faculty who might be doing Zoom sessions with students for virtual teaching, what your opinions are on the following questions:

Would you require that students have video on during instruction? Why or why not?

This has apparently become a bit of a sticking point amongst some institutions...




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 10:26AM by PeterB.
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 10:38AM
I am not any of those, but in my participation, I have it on only half of the time, and usually never when it is a public forum (anyone can join the call). I also have my son using a machine with a disabled camera for school, and there has not been a complaint. From what I understand, some situations may be "delicate" and in order to keep that privacy, it's been acceptable to keep it disabled. I'd be curious to know if that were to change for any institutions, at least at the secondary school level.
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: August 05, 2020 10:39AM
Quote
PeterB
... I'm curious of my fellow forumites, those of who are teachers/instructors/faculty who might be doing Zoom sessions with students for virtual teaching, what your opinions are on the following questions:

Would you require that students have video on during instruction? Why or why not?

This has apparently become a bit of a sticking point amongst some institutions...

It depends. For Higher Ed, I don't see why you would require it unless you were assigning points for physical attendance before. Those students should be adult enough to know the consequences of not being there or whatever.

For K12, absolutely need it on to make sure students are engaged and active in their learning. My main issue with Zoom is that there doesn't seem to way to block students from viewing other students but still allowing the teacher to see all the students.



C(-)ris
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: August 05, 2020 11:32AM
My wife is a high school teacher. They initially required that students kept the cameras off because they didn't want to expose anyone to liability, either on the teacher's side or the teachers requirement to report abuse/unsafe conditions. I know that it's strange to play the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" card but that was what they did initially. They didn't want the kid to pop into class with a relative measuring out baggies of meth in the background, or see mom shooting up or who knows what. The logic was don't rock the boat, just get the kids through the last few weeks of school. Near the end of the year they relaxed that so that the sessions could have more social component. They realized that the kids needed to interact and see each other. The participation became much more evident once they could see each other. They're using Google Meet/Classroom to conduct their classes. It works better than Zoom and is more secure.



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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 05, 2020 11:38AM
Wife says:

Video on. Otherwise the students spend too much time texting, watching TV, etc.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: wave rider
Date: August 05, 2020 12:29PM
Most of my teaching online will be asynchronous, so camera status is not an issue.

“Office hour” meetings I’m ok either way since we will mostly be looking at their screens/apps while conversing. I am VERY happy Zoom has background images so folks don’t see the MESSY desk behind me…

Edit> Teaching a community college class.



=wr=



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 12:42PM by wave rider.
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 05, 2020 12:37PM
I tried to mandate video on/audio off but it soon became an issue when students were using personal equipment that did not have video (not all parents allow there child to have district issued iPads because of replacement cost if broken/lost), or kids who were not allowed to be on video by parents.

I finally decided that the kids wanted to be treated as adults, that involved showing responsibility. I scheduled sessions and they either showed or didn't. If they submitted work and were successful, then all was fine. If I received nothing or mistakes were made, I first tried to contact the students, then the parents, then I turned it over to our home support personnel who would visit in person.

Of course I also reached out to those students who were successful but not showing up. That was to ensure they were not having any issues. It also allowed me to do an impromptu evaluation to see if they were doing the work or were farming it out (I had one who went from an F to turning in a graduate level analysis of a lesson.. coincidentally his mother had advance degrees in a similar subject area and was being overly helpful).

I compared notes with other instructors and I had better interaction than most. I wonder if it was because I used a socriatic teaching method which involved the students rather than lecturing and allowing questions at the end. I tried to make it fun and relaxed, joking and using short video clips, even showing up in character at times. I tried to make it so students wanted to show up just to see what I was going to do next.

At then end I really don't think anyone was thrilled with zoom teaching. Some students did well, some teachers did well - getting the two together seldom happened. We were thrown together and learned together. This year should be a bit better as there has been time to learn and improve. Teachers and students learning virtually are now there by choice in many districts.

As is often the case, parental support can make all the difference.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: sekker
Date: August 05, 2020 12:42PM
This BBC article is very instructive on the mental stress of zoom and video calls.

[www.bbc.com]

In the end, I think the learner should have two things: 1) Option to go back and re-watch the lecture and 2) Option to not look into the camera and/or turn off their video and microphone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 12:43PM by sekker.
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 05, 2020 03:14PM
Thanks all for feedback.

I should say that what drives wanting to have the video on, usually falls into two (or maybe three) major categories:

1) Wanting to increase student engagement

2) Wanting to mandate attendance

3) (On the instructor's part) The fact of lecturing to students you can't see, being extremely disconcerting.

Whereas the arguments to have the video off, usually seem to fall under, again, two or three major categories:

1) The students' right to privacy

2) Concerns about students who have had some sort of prior abuse or experience which would make being observed unacceptably traumatizing

3) That there are other ways to engage students

... speaking to one specific of these issues, I can say that some schools, my own included, DO track attendance ... in some cases or with some classes, in fact penalizing students for nonattendance. The issue there is that students can sign into Zoom, have the video off, and then simply walk away... so they're "logged in", but not actually attending.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 03:25PM
... speaking to one specific of these issues, I can say that some schools, my own included, DO track attendance ... in some cases or with some classes, in fact penalizing students for nonattendance. The issue there is that students can sign into Zoom, have the video off, and then simply walk away... so they're "logged in", but not actually attending.

one way around that is to take attendance twice. a meeting I typically attend will have one sign in and out at the end of the meeting. back in the real life world.
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: dk62
Date: August 05, 2020 03:59PM
I could never understand American Universities tracking student attendance. I needed the university for labs and directions where to find materials that I should use to learn about subjects. Adults can find the best ways of learning and then demonstrate their knowledge in exams.
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 05, 2020 04:01PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
... speaking to one specific of these issues, I can say that some schools, my own included, DO track attendance ... in some cases or with some classes, in fact penalizing students for nonattendance. The issue there is that students can sign into Zoom, have the video off, and then simply walk away... so they're "logged in", but not actually attending.

one way around that is to take attendance twice. a meeting I typically attend will have one sign in and out at the end of the meeting. back in the real life world.

Unfortunately, we're not officially tracking attendance through Zoom, but rather through our institution's learning management system, and it only tracks when they log in ... not when they log out. So the only way to know that they've left before the end is to do it by looking at the Zoom recording, which is a hassle.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Speaking of Zoom-based teaching...
Posted by: Sam3
Date: August 07, 2020 06:15AM
My daughter had remote learning this summer, and it was mandatory that video be on. This was to make sure that the students were actually there and paying attention and not texting or doing other things that would get the kids to lose focus. It also was a chance for kids to see each other.

The problem was that there were some stupid requirements which they enforced by mandatory video, such as no eating or drinking during class. It was considered disrespectful to the teacher. The kids also had to ask for permission to go to the bathroom. That could have been acceptable had they also enforced a break time between classes, but usually one class ran over and the kids had to sit through two classes in a row, with maybe the third class getting a 2-4 minute break, usually because the last teacher gave the kids a break, therefore cutting into that teacher's allotted time. So my daughter learned how to cheat, she bent down "to retrieve something". This ended up happening a lot sometimes. She didn't have time to eat something before class, as she had rowing practice right before her virtual classes.



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A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
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