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The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 21, 2020 12:20AM
[www.freightwaves.com]

“Sources close to the embattled fuel cell truck manufacturer are reporting that founder Trevor Milton has resigned as Executive Chairman of Nikola Motors (NASDAQ: NKLA) and has departed the company effective immediately.....”
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: SteveO
Date: September 21, 2020 07:36AM
GM just partnered with them a few weeks ago. This is very interesting. Saw a NYT article this morning that goes into a lot more detail than the one above.

I wonder what's really happening here; everyone — or at least car people — knows that there are dummy cars that often don't roll under their own power at media events. The article states he said the truck "is not a pusher" but the claim is made that this wasn't said in the video that was released. So that is somewhat splitting hairs to me. Along with the claimed five trucks in production right now in 'Schland, I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this thing actually working. Then again, there could be five trucks in production that don't have working engines yet? I just can't imagine GM would get heavy into something that wasn't actually [or at least by every good measure had a very high probability of being] proven to work...?

The part about the company saying they had proprietary tech, the article also implied that wasn't true, referring to off-the-shelf components. But any vehicle can have a mix of both. EDIT: NYT also said Milton had a past company that ran into "legal trouble" and imo in the context of the article, this statement implies a cast of shade on his ethics.

OTOH, this investment company making the accusations has a vested interest in the stock dropping, as they're a short-sell operation. And that stock has dropped about 63% over the weekend as of about 6:30am CT today. But the article also said they've been right numerous times with other "investigations" (not trying to make them sound authoritative here) they've made. So perhaps where there is smoke...

Again, I can't imagine GM didn't due diligence before the $2b cash infusion. Then again, they are pretty good at sometimes messing things up. (Full disclosure: I drive a GM car.) If this all turns out true, I bet Mary Barra will be out the door. Like most things, I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2020 07:52AM by SteveO.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 21, 2020 08:14AM
I think we will find that GM screwed up big-time.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 21, 2020 08:27AM
....is it karma for GM.....for 'killing the electric car'.........????



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: September 21, 2020 08:48AM
I think GM is just acquiring NKLA straight up. It will be their EV brand that will put the rest of GM out of its misery.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: August West
Date: September 21, 2020 08:52AM
Interesting story.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 21, 2020 09:07AM
Quote
ztirffritz
I think GM is just acquiring NKLA straight up. It will be their EV brand that will put the rest of GM out of its misery.

That would not be a bad outcome for GM, IF there really IS something there, there.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 21, 2020 09:17AM
Hype and scam. Dude got out, and he can now dump his holdings and cash out before the collapse.

Hydrogen ? REALLY ? That's a seriously dumbass concept. Sure, burning it makes water (and waste products from combusted lubricants). But for now, It's environmentally hostile as hell, because they crack natural gas to make it. And there is NO infrastructure to deliver it to vehicles. (OK, OK, except in a few weird places in SoCal.)

Sure, you can break water with electricity to make it. New experimental techniques even make that efficient. Add a solar powered electrolysis depot for local delivery vehicles and it makes some sense.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 21, 2020 09:28AM
Nikola kept repeatedly claiming they had revolutionary EV tech for their Badger pickup truck that was better than Tesla. But then when the GM partnership was announced, they said they were going to use GM’s Ultium platform for the Badger. Clearly they were lying about their own EV tech. This is what primarily raised my concerns about legitimacy.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 21, 2020 09:37AM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Nikola kept repeatedly claiming they had revolutionary EV tech for their Badger pickup truck that was better than Tesla. But then when the GM partnership was announced, they said they were going to use GM’s Ultium platform for the Badger. Clearly they were lying about their own EV tech. This is what primarily raised my concerns about legitimacy.

I listened to this interview with their CEO:
[thisweekinstartups.com]

This smelled like a scam.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 21, 2020 09:41AM
Quote
SteveO
I wonder what's really happening here; everyone — or at least car people — knows that there are dummy cars that often don't roll under their own power at media events...

They did an ad with a truck that literally could not move under its own power that was pushed down a hill with the camera angle rotated to make it look like the truck was functional.

They faked stats, concealed that they had wired in power from off-stage, and Trevor Milton lied, saying that the useless "prototype" on stage with the fake markings was "fully functional."

It now looks like none of the tech that they said they had in 2016 was ever finished. No original hydrogen fuel cell or motors. All of their statements about having that tech were false or misleading.

At the very least, it seems clear that he's committed securities fraud. Seems like he dragged the company into a very big mess.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2020 09:43AM by Sarcany.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: GGD
Date: September 21, 2020 10:21AM
Quote
SteveO
I just can't imagine GM would get heavy into something that wasn't actually [or at least by every good measure had a very high probability of being] proven to work...?

...

Again, I can't imagine GM didn't due diligence before the $2b cash infusion. Then again, they are pretty good at sometimes messing things up. (Full disclosure: I drive a GM car.) If this all turns out true, I bet Mary Barra will be out the door. Like most things, I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I haven't been following this closely and don't really have an opinion, but I keep thinking back to Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes as an example where investors/partners believed the hype and didn't do the due diligence.
[en.wikipedia.org]

I also think of WeWork and Adam Neumann.
[en.wikipedia.org]
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 21, 2020 10:52AM
Quote
GGD
Quote
SteveO
I just can't imagine GM would get heavy into something that wasn't actually [or at least by every good measure had a very high probability of being] proven to work...?

...

Again, I can't imagine GM didn't due diligence before the $2b cash infusion. Then again, they are pretty good at sometimes messing things up. (Full disclosure: I drive a GM car.) If this all turns out true, I bet Mary Barra will be out the door. Like most things, I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I haven't been following this closely and don't really have an opinion, but I keep thinking back to Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes as an example where investors/partners believed the hype and didn't do the due diligence.
[en.wikipedia.org]

I also think of WeWork and Adam Neumann.
[en.wikipedia.org]

Yes, I think this is looking more like Theranos than WeWork, however.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 21, 2020 12:57PM
Stock is down almost 20% again - today.

I expect it to settle to a new stable low based on the GM interest.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: SteveO
Date: September 21, 2020 02:42PM
I was not aware of all the other facts, esp wherein the claims made in their ad, hidden power sources, etc. Wow. Yes, does sound a lot like Theranos, et al. I hope it's viable, but really...sounds not legit at all knowing the rest of the story now.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 21, 2020 03:00PM
Yeah, that’s the sad thing....you hope these new EV companies succeed, but the scammers really hurt things by stifling new investment.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 21, 2020 03:06PM
but the scammers really hurt things by stifling new investment.


Still, one has to wonder who isn't doing due diligence to find out these things sooner.

I have to (or certainly want to) think GM knew what they were getting into and have an agenda we don't know about, unlike what they did with the EV-1, to expand their EV lineup, or acquire resources.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2020 03:07PM by RAMd®d.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 21, 2020 03:47PM
Quote
RAMd®d
but the scammers really hurt things by stifling new investment.


Still, one has to wonder who isn't doing due diligence to find out these things sooner.

I have to (or certainly want to) think GM knew what they were getting into and have an agenda we don't know about, unlike what they did with the EV-1, to expand their EV lineup, or acquire resources.

Same question - just rinse as repeat from Theranos.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 21, 2020 03:58PM
Basically my read on this is that GM and others did nor know, they did not do their due diligence, they got caught flat footed. Now they have to save face. So they decided Milton had to go. They forced him out, lest they pull out of the deal.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: September 21, 2020 05:07PM
This is a pretty damning report from a Nikola short seller.
Love that the name is Hindenburg Research--Since Nikola originally was planning on Hydrogen Fuel cell.

[hindenburgresearch.com]
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 21, 2020 05:15PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Yeah, that’s the sad thing....you hope these new EV companies succeed, but the scammers really hurt things by stifling new investment.

My money is on Rivian... Or will be as soon as they go public.

They're quiet and they're boring and every car company in America has been fighting for a part of them.



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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 21, 2020 06:26PM
Rivian should succeed.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 21, 2020 07:39PM
Quote
Ken Sp.
This is a pretty damning report from a Nikola short seller.
Love that the name is Hindenburg Research--Since Nikola originally was planning on Hydrogen Fuel cell.

[hindenburgresearch.com]

[forums.macresource.com]
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: September 21, 2020 09:06PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Rivian should succeed.

I'll be more interested when they have a production model and are shipping significant quantities. Too many "new" car companies in the last 70 years never got that far. Like, essentially ALL of them in this country, except Tesla.
If Rivian can get the first 25,000 vehicles out the door, I'll take some interest.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 21, 2020 09:35PM
Agreed Paul. For the most part, they've so far done everything right (almost). Mass production will be the next hurdle.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 22, 2020 01:28AM
In A Long Way Up (Ewan McGregor, Charley Boorman, ATV+) the lads ride two H-D LiveWire motorcycles 13,000mi from Tierra del Fuego to Los Angeles.

It's not an adventure by retentive BMW purist-snob standards, as these types like to see tightrope walking without a net or "your not a man".

The LiveWires are tricked out with some ADV livery, and there's a support group traveling with them, one being an ICE bike for a photographer.

There's supposed to be an electric charging station put in place as the trip unfolds, but confidence is not high.

The two support trucks are Rivians, with VIN numbers 0000000001 and 0000000002, basically prototypes licensed for the road.

Getting those ready for the trip should be a couple of episodes of their own, but no.

The inside of the Rivian looks like one needs a multi-engine jet and IFR rating, compared to a Tesla.

Anyway, McGregor wanted this to be an EV trip from the very start, so lots of stuff had to be worked out, and the best laid plans...

So it's quite an adventure to me, just watching this.

There are three episodes on ATV now, with five to seven more I think, to follow.

Of all the current eMotors, I like the LiveWire the best, though it be not the best deal in an eMotor.

The Rivian appeals to me on an aesthetic level, as I don't know much about the specs.

It reminds me a little of an International Harvester... SUV?




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: The House of Cards is Falling?......Trevor Milton Out at Nikola Motors!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 22, 2020 01:39AM
A little background on A Long Way Up.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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