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Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: October 22, 2020 07:53AM
After record quarterly earnings yesterday, just last night, after years of setbacks, Tesla recently entirely re-wrote the code for the neural network and the results are amazing. Like many other autonomous driving systems, it does not hyper map the areas. It is real world. The re-write also increases the ability to "learn" from the realtime input from the 1 million cars that will be using it, very much the ultimate crowd source.
The first videos are from the San Jose area and the second ones from Sacramento. Most Tesla Early Access beta testers are under NDA. These people had permission to post videos. They will be going viral.
I can't wait to get this in my car and use it cautiously!

FSD San Jose area

FSD-Sactramento area

More info:
[electrek.co]

[www.teslarati.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2020 07:54AM by Ken Sp..
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 22, 2020 08:42AM
Wow. Elon may be an unstable nutcase, but when he gets an idea stuck in his sights.... hail smiley



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: sekker
Date: October 22, 2020 09:21AM
I'm cautiously optimistic! Musk said the hardware in Teslas four years ago would be enough.

He's said he's been using this himself for months, going door to door in CA.

Let's see what happens when real users try it!

Exciting.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 22, 2020 09:32AM
May I be the first to post: RIP, Ken Sp.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2020 09:32AM by Speedy.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: October 22, 2020 09:59AM
Expect more stunts like this, where people leave the driver seat empty while the car goes down the road, to endanger people's lives [jalopnik.com]



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 22, 2020 10:24AM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Expect more stunts like this, where people leave the driver seat empty while the car goes down the road, to endanger people's lives [jalopnik.com]

You can't fix stupid...
Stupid people are going to do stupid things. It's not the technology that makes them stupid, or enables them to be stupid. Give them a soft room and a small stick, and they'll find a way to wedge that stick in an orifice and hurt themselves with it.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: October 22, 2020 10:27AM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Expect more stunts like this, where people leave the driver seat empty while the car goes down the road, to endanger people's lives [jalopnik.com]

You can't fix stupid...
Stupid people are going to do stupid things. It's not the technology that makes them stupid, or enables them to be stupid. Give them a soft room and a small stick, and they'll find a way to wedge that stick in an orifice and hurt themselves with it.

But we can get back to holding people accountable for their actions, behavior and decisions. This would be a great first start. If you as the driver don't remain behind the wheel and paying attention, you loose your license. End of story.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: October 22, 2020 10:38AM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Expect more stunts like this, where people leave the driver seat empty while the car goes down the road, to endanger people's lives [jalopnik.com]

You can't fix stupid...
Stupid people are going to do stupid things. It's not the technology that makes them stupid, or enables them to be stupid. Give them a soft room and a small stick, and they'll find a way to wedge that stick in an orifice and hurt themselves with it.


What I am trying to figure out is how the driver bypassed the systems to prevent this type of behavior. This wasn't a spur of the moment action. Tesla has safeguard that people are selling products to bypass safeguards. Can't fix stupid so I expect more of this behavior because people will feel emboldened by an update and marketing speak.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 22, 2020 10:52AM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
Paul F.
But we can get back to holding people accountable for their actions, behavior and decisions. This would be a great first start. If you as the driver don't remain behind the wheel and paying attention, you loose your license. End of story.

We are in complete agreement on this...
Except for the spelling of "Lose".

Loose= Not tight.
Lose= Not found.

hamster dance



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 22, 2020 10:56AM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
What I am trying to figure out is how the driver bypassed the systems to prevent this type of behavior. This wasn't a spur of the moment action. Tesla has safeguard that people are selling products to bypass safeguards. Can't fix stupid so I expect more of this behavior because people will feel emboldened by an update and marketing speak.


I've ridden in a Tesla Model 3 with the driver assist. I can't figure it out either... After three minutes of "hands off", the car signaled and started to pull over and stop. I'm not sure how they bypass that, and more importantly is the WHY would you try and bypass that?
I'm sure the first person killing themselves with the Full Self Driving trying to get it to do something that it actively tries to keep people from doing is only months away.... If only we could program it to just euthanize (against a bridge abutment?) people who purposefully try to bypass the safety systems....



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: October 22, 2020 10:57AM
You’re just going to have a certain subset of idiots who do stupid things, regardless of safeguards or the law. Just look at people who insist on drinking and driving. Or (like many of us) think we can use a cell phone while driving a car.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: sekker
Date: October 22, 2020 10:58AM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
pRICE cUBE
What I am trying to figure out is how the driver bypassed the systems to prevent this type of behavior. This wasn't a spur of the moment action. Tesla has safeguard that people are selling products to bypass safeguards. Can't fix stupid so I expect more of this behavior because people will feel emboldened by an update and marketing speak.


I've ridden in a Tesla Model 3 with the driver assist. I can't figure it out either... After three minutes of "hands off", the car signaled and started to pull over and stop. I'm not sure how they bypass that, and more importantly is the WHY would you try and bypass that?
I'm sure the first person killing themselves with the Full Self Driving trying to get it to do something that it actively tries to keep people from doing is only months away.... If only we could program it to just euthanize (against a bridge abutment?) people who purposefully try to bypass the safety systems....

We have a model Y, I have no idea how to bypass the safety systems. But then again, I have no interest in doing so...
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: October 22, 2020 11:42AM
The bypass is fairly easy, but frankly, it is VERY dangerous and STUPID. I will not post it here.
If the "nag" is not countered, the car beeps, letting you know you need to be attentive. If you get to the beeps, three times in a trip, it disables auto-steer. If you never respond to the beeps, the car turns on the emergency flashers and comes to a controlled stop. Yes, in the lane of traffic, not an ideal situation, but that is still safer than a driver using old school cruise control, that falls asleep, and the vehicle goes off road into a ditch or another car.
I have driven nearly 100,000 miles on both versions of Autopilot, the "nag" to hold the wheel is not a big deal. If you are lightly putting some pressure against the tuning effect, you are good. Additionally, you can also simply adjust the audio volume on the steering wheel scroll button to dismiss the nag.
Using Autopilot as much as I have, the videos show a quantum leap in Autonomous driving.
Everyone goes crazy when an accident happens with self driving, but it is still the responsibility of the driver to be attentive. I admit, on long freeway stretches, complacency settles in.
The statistics of Tesla cars with Autopilot (collision avoidance) capabilities, show a dramatic drop in air bag deployed accidents. So, yes, there are accidents, but data shows there are significantly less accidents. The drop was around 40%, which is more significant, when you realize, that accidents caused by other drivers, are only reduced by a little, since the ability for the Tesla to avoid cars running into it, are marginally better.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 22, 2020 11:47AM
Rather than focus on the very small contingent of people who will do something stupid with anything for no particular reason, I too, am cautiously optimistic.

I can't wait to see this tech in the hands of a few, responsible customers.

Full autonomy still has to be considered in legislation, and there are the paranoid versions of Dr. Susan Calvin that would be hurdles.

But this is pretty exciting.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: October 22, 2020 12:06PM
I hope all companies make tremendous company on this but I am not going to believe any company until credible, independent bodies deem any autonomous tech as safe. I am not going to believe any company's marketing or enthusiastic founder until I see studied proof.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 22, 2020 02:21PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
I hope all companies make tremendous company on this but I am not going to believe any company until credible, independent bodies deem any autonomous tech as safe. I am not going to believe any company's marketing or enthusiastic founder until I see studied proof.

The word "safe" is a huge can of worms...
What is "Safe"?
What's the benchmark? Safer than human driven vehicles?
100% zero accidents of any kind? (hint: no such thing in the universe....).
Passing a certain set of criteria with 100%?
Who comes up with the criteria?

I'm ok with it if it's "within 1% of, or less than, the accident rate of human drivers per number of accidents per 100,000 miles" or something like that.
I don't expect it to be BETTER than people. Not for a first generation system. It just has to not be worse.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: October 22, 2020 02:48PM
Quote
Paul F.
The word "safe" is a huge can of worms...
What is "Safe"?
What's the benchmark? Safer than human driven vehicles?
100% zero accidents of any kind? (hint: no such thing in the universe....).
Passing a certain set of criteria with 100%?
Who comes up with the criteria?

I'm ok with it if it's "within 1% of, or less than, the accident rate of human drivers per number of accidents per 100,000 miles" or something like that.
I don't expect it to be BETTER than people. Not for a first generation system. It just has to not be worse.

Over 4 years ago, Elon Mush said "People won't accept Autonomous driving until it is 10 times safer than human drivers"

[electrek.co]

From the article. It also references the safety factor.
"Tesla has been claiming that it’s safer to drive on Autopilot as long as drivers keep paying attention and Musk says that as the system improves, it will eventually be significantly safer than human drivers, but it will never be perfect:

It’s important to emphasize we’ll never be perfect. Nothing in the real world is perfect. But I do think that long term, it can reduce accidents by a factor of 10. So there are 10 fewer fatalities and tragedies and serious injuries. And that’s a really huge difference."
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: October 22, 2020 03:47PM
So when will Tesla add LIDAR to solve the "slamming into stationary objects" problems they've had with their camera-only autopilot?
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: sekker
Date: October 22, 2020 03:51PM
Quote
Bill in NC
So when will Tesla add LIDAR to solve the "slamming into stationary objects" problems they've had with their camera-only autopilot?

I'm unfamiliar with any such recent events, and 'FSD' is a totally different algorithm so hard to even compare if true.

LIDAR has its own issues, starting with cost.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: d4
Date: October 22, 2020 05:16PM
Off-Topic:
This blender is dangerous and should be taken off the market. It can blend with the cover off whereby someone can shove their hand in there. And press down REALLY hard for 5 mins. And the hand will turn into a milkshake. This is a problem with the blender.





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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: sekker
Date: October 22, 2020 05:40PM
Quote
d4
Off-Topic:
This blender is dangerous and should be taken off the market. It can blend with the cover off whereby someone can shove their hand in there. And press down REALLY hard for 5 mins. And the hand will turn into a milkshake. This is a problem with the blender.


We live in the world of >$1M spilled coffee, too.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 22, 2020 08:25PM
We live in the world of >$1M spilled coffee, too.


If you're referring to the McDonald's case, you should know (or maybe you do) the actual reward was less than half that.

There's considerable back story that McDonald's had other burn related incidents and apparently continued to serve very hot coffee.

They also could have settled out of court for $20,000, so you takes yer chances and pays yer money.

The plaintiff should never have been holding to coffee between her legs, and I think that should have been and never was taken into consideration.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Tesla rolls out limited Beta of Full Self Driving-FSD-Amazing
Posted by: sekker
Date: October 22, 2020 10:34PM
Quote
RAMd®d
We live in the world of >$1M spilled coffee, too.


If you're referring to the McDonald's case, you should know (or maybe you do) the actual reward was less than half that.

There's considerable back story that McDonald's had other burn related incidents and apparently continued to serve very hot coffee.

They also could have settled out of court for $20,000, so you takes yer chances and pays yer money.

The plaintiff should never have been holding to coffee between her legs, and I think that should have been and never was taken into consideration.

Ok, well I'm not sure you make me feel any better. Nor does the wiki - [en.wikipedia.org]

'The jury damages included $160,000[citation needed] to cover medical expenses and compensatory damages and $2.7 million in punitive damages. The trial judge reduced the final verdict to $640,000, and the parties settled for a confidential amount before an appeal was decided.[3]'

Still, a lot of money over some hot coffee!
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