Previous thread from January: [forums.macresource.com]

Our grievance process is glacially slow, but my helper had her day today.

Here is the outcome according to our union rep:

-my boss rambled on and on and said that I would back his story 100%

-at that point, my helper and the union rep were forced to use a letter I had written in her defense--which was rather damning.

-End result? The Zone manager ruled instantly in the favor of my helper, told my manager that my helper and me were "off limits" and no retaliation would tolerated by the company.

-he has to attend anger management classes.

I'm glad my helper won, but I still have to work this guy. And now that I "betrayed" him (in his eyes), I'm sure he will retaliate against me and her in some manner.

He is so egotistical, that warning or no warning, he will.

What gets me, is that in January, I went into his office and flat out told him, that I would not support his version of events and that should he pursue things against my helper, I would write a letter detailing how he behaved that day. Yet he went into this meeting and testified that I would support his version of events!!!!

This has to be the damnedest situation ever that I've been involved in at work : )

So what do you think, do you think someone who always has to be right will learn a lesson and follow directions from his superiors or will he play true to character and harass me and my helper?

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PM G5 original 1.8 SP, with 2.5 gigs of ram. 410 gigs of hard drive. OS 10.5.8
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 ghz, 2 gig ram, 200 gb hard drive/ Mac OS 10.6 and XP SP3
Location: Cincinnati

Keep a small recorder handy . . . ready to turn on at a moment's notice. Set one up on your computer at work, if you have a computer that you use. Put the program in the dock for immediate access. Take no chances. Some people are truly stupid when it comes to their ego. Video cameras would help too.

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Bill

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

Damn.. I remember that thread...

Is there any way you and your helper could transfer within the company so you're not directly under the angry moron?

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Paul F.
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Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
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"The world makes a lot more sense when you realize most people are stupid." - Zoidberg
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I think your boss is a jerk and will probably not change. He took your support of him for granted. He expected you to lie if necessary to back him.

You did the right thing.

You are going to have to mind your P's and Q's around him. I would bet on some type of retaliation.

Time will tell.

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Unless your company takes some action against the manager, I'm sure he'll do his best to try to get you and her fired. The idea about a recorder is a good one. Document EVERYTHING. If you even begin to suspect retaliation, document it and DON'T hesitate to go above his head. It's your behind vs. his behind. Whose behind do you wish to save?

You've got a lot going for you since the zone manager ruled in your favor (and your helper's). Guys like your boss don't like people who disobey their authority. I'm sure he thinks you've been insubordinate.

I was in a situation a lot like this. In the end, I just tried my best to bite my tongue and get the hell out of there before it got worse. Found a new position, gave my 2 weeks notice & NEVER looked back.

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You were expecting corn FLAKES?

BCC every email if you dont already

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The Secret Diary of Steve Jobs [fakesteve.blogspot.com]

My original advice from January still stands: start looking for another job. The fact that this guy went into the meeting thinking that you would support his version of events, despite the fact that you told him you would do the opposite, suggests that he is either completely out-of-touch with reality, insane, or both. It's good that the Zone manager supported your helper, but it's going to be really unpleasant for you and her until this guy leaves... and given his semi-insane behavior, it's doubtful that he will... after all, so long as he doesn't get caught, who is going to suffer more: him, who behaves in an insane manner, or you, who has to put up with it...? So... start looking for another job. You might even want to touch base with your helper, and see if she is doing the same.

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Freya says, 'Hello from Valhalla!'

Sorry, what PeterB said.

I disagree with PeterB.... why should a good employee capitulate to a moron. Let the lousy manager be discovered and removed for the company's own good. Why should good people suffer at the hands of the bad?

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h linamen
I disagree with PeterB.... why should a good employee capitulate to a moron. Let the lousy manager be discovered and removed for the company's own good. Why should good people suffer at the hands of the bad?

In an ideal world, maybe.

Thanks for the update, and sorry to hear about it! I've left decent jobs because of the people I had to work with. While there is something to be said about being right, I think it is just as important to go to work where you enjoy the people.

Good luck!

-Tofer

It is indeed time to evaluate how much you like/need this job.

Enough to spend half your time documenting everything and waiting for him to retaliate?

I agree with the recorder. Also, do communications by email (and keep copies) so there is a record. After any personal meeting you have with the guy, send an email after saying, "As we agreed in our meeting at 11:30 this morning..." so that you have an accurate record of your various goals, assignments and responsibilities. The first time anything out of order occurs (however small), touch base with the Zone manager in the sense of, "What would you like me to do if..." to let that person know that there may be retaliation.

My wife had to fight against a jerk in her position for a year. Eventually, my wife was moved up and the jerk was moved to a position where she couldn't hurt anybody-they now are out of each others' lines of authority. I agree that you shouldn't have to look for a new job because of a jerk, but I'd keep that option open if the company doesn't put a leash on the guy.

Peter, when you have that much time, leaving at this point could have a serious impact on your 401k (depending on how that is structured, or uses some other device). That said, that would certainly be my first inclination, but depending on where he lives, he may not have options either the result of population (and lack of places to look), specific skill sets that are in demand everywhere - but not locally, which could involve a relocation - which is something that single entities look at with great freedom, but marrieds/ people with family and/or extended family do NOT.

So, yes, your first intuition is certainly the one that makes the most sense, I've found in my tenure as a recruiter, that the complications for some people - even people who knew, by the type of degree they had, that job bouncing was going to be a specific part of the greater rewards they would be party to, at other companies -- once they have parents nearby who are older, and a daughter who has prom coming up as well as a son who is a sport star of some sort, well.... they don't want to move, and neither does a spouse who might have all the same things going on, in addition to a career that has NO issues because of different structures.

So for that reason, I suggest that you and the 25 year old helper start making room in your schedule for midnight rendezvous. That way, you get the best of both worlds, and... she will understand better than anyone, what the boss revenge is like, having been part of the whole deal in the first place.

Plus, the videos you make could be worth something on the net, post divorce, and start an entire new genre.... "Union-Busting pRON!"

Note: Only half of this note is to be taken seriously. You must choose which half on your own.

First of all, my sincere congratulations for taking the high road and standing behind your helper. It would have been much easier to let her fend for herself. I believe one of the highest virtues in a supervisor is having the integrity to back up their employees, regardless of the cost.

Might it help to express your concerns of retaliation to your zone manager? If you can get some kind of commitment from him to talk about future problems, it might make things run more smoothly if there is trouble. Also make sure you tell him how much you appreciate his handling of the situation. He may also be sticking his neck out in this case.

As others have said . . . document . . . document . . . document. People with anger management problems will eventually slip up - they can't help it.

Quote
Tofer
While there is something to be said about being right, I think it is just as important to go to work where you enjoy the people.

Precisely!

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Freya says, 'Hello from Valhalla!'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2008 08:37AM by PeterB.

Thanks for the ideas, support, etc!

Actually something might have come up, but I need to find a spare $150,000 to buy into a business with experienced people that I know would be successful.

My current job skills would be an asset there...

I have a wealthy uncle, : ) if he would just cosign a loan...I might be out of this situation.

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PM G5 original 1.8 SP, with 2.5 gigs of ram. 410 gigs of hard drive. OS 10.5.8
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 ghz, 2 gig ram, 200 gb hard drive/ Mac OS 10.6 and XP SP3
Location: Cincinnati

I do not know if a small digital audio recorders is enough. One of those $100 Aiptek video recorders might be warranted if cameras are not banned at work.

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"FUNDIT"

Quote
Grumpyguy
Thanks for the ideas, support, etc!

Actually something might have come up, but I need to find a spare $150,000 to buy into a business with experienced people that I know would be successful.

My current job skills would be an asset there...

I have a wealthy uncle, : ) if he would just cosign a loan...I might be out of this situation.

[sba.gov]

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Your boss did not "forget" that you would not support him. He was backed into a corner and did anything at the moment to get some heat off. He also just proved himself to be without integrity, a troublemaker and told a downright lie. They will be watching him and looking into his record.

I would not quit at this point. The heat is on him. I would be beyond reproach and have a serious pow wow with your associate, to do the same.

He is also testing you. He will definitely be the type to retaliate, but will most likely show his butt, further.

THanks Zoid, for the link...

Decocritter,

Work the last couple days has been tense. I know him and he won't be able to help himself. But to be honest, if I can pull the finances together and can buy into this business, I just might do it for nothing more to lower the stress level.

I don't mind working hard, deadlines, etc, but people politics is bs that I don't feel like dealing with.

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PM G5 original 1.8 SP, with 2.5 gigs of ram. 410 gigs of hard drive. OS 10.5.8
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 ghz, 2 gig ram, 200 gb hard drive/ Mac OS 10.6 and XP SP3
Location: Cincinnati