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Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: August 02, 2008 04:06PM
Yahoo's food editor (one of them) says.....


Some people say you should let steaks or chops warm to room temperature before
grilling. Those people have never been in the kitchen of a properly run steak house.
Keep all meats and seafood refrigerated or on ice until the moment you plan to grill them.


I've never seen the room temp thing in a book... just others suggesting it, like it was
a war crime to not go to room temp. I've certainly never done it with poultry.... nor
with steak burgers..... and the cooler center from the fridge always helped, I
presumed, to keep the outer/inner differential such that it would enhance the
degree of rare you seek.

[food.yahoo.com]

So who wants to argue about cooking steaks, be they 1" or thicker filets???
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Stavs
Date: August 02, 2008 04:20PM
I let steaks sit out for a bout a half hour. I have never had a problem. Burgers I usually cook right from the fridge.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: August 02, 2008 04:22PM
I want REASONS, not just what you do!

You could stand on your head while your wife beats you with a metal spatula, but that
doesn't explain WHY it makes for good cooking! (though if you have that on YouTube,
please post a link here....)
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Jack D.
Date: August 02, 2008 04:25PM
I usually bring my steaks out about 1/2 hour before also. All other meat is usually right from the fridge to the grill. No real reason I guess.



- Jack D.




New tasteless sig coming soon!
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Stavs
Date: August 02, 2008 04:27PM
Steakhouses get their ovens going at some really high temps, more than a homeowner ever could. Theories I have read is that by leaving them out, you have a better chance of the steak cooking more even. Ever have a steak that was burnt on the outside and cold in the center? It makes sense...hell, go to my in-laws for that kind of steak.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: shadow
Date: August 02, 2008 04:40PM
From the bacterium's perspective, there is virtually no difference between:

0 min = 40 deg
10 min = 145 deg

and

0 min = 40 deg
120 min = 70 deg
130 min = 145 deg
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 02, 2008 04:44PM
in general, its a good idea to let food warm a bit before putting it into a pan - helps prevent sticking. i'm not sure how this translates to the grill but i'm inclined to think its still a good idea.





VTPKL it!
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 02, 2008 04:45PM
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: August 02, 2008 05:11PM
I have read that you cook it all on one side, so the heat rises and cooks it through, then just do a quick flip at the end to sear the other side.

The other thing I have heard is to take it off the grill before you think it should, because it will continue cooking for awhile
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: August 02, 2008 05:11PM
Acceptus Latin In Sermo? Numquam! Essum Viscus Rudis!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2008 05:14PM by Jimmypoo.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: wowzer
Date: August 02, 2008 05:14PM
What does it matter? You're supposed to pre-heat your grill to very hot temps before throwing the steaks on. This way, it will sear the outside and keep the juices inside. I tend to like mine nearly raw....thus sizzle the outside, turn it 3 times (each about 3-4 minutes apart), then serve. For medium rare, just leave it on the last time at a lower temp and wait about 5-10 minutes.



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: decocritter
Date: August 02, 2008 05:15PM
Never, ever puncture with a fork, while cooking.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: August 02, 2008 05:15PM
Quote
shadow
From the bacterium's perspective, there is virtually no difference between:

0 min = 40 deg
10 min = 145 deg

and

0 min = 40 deg
120 min = 70 deg
130 min = 145 deg

For the latter, don't they scream longer because of the heating torture? You think E. Coli burning alive is fun for them?
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 02, 2008 05:19PM
Following Alton Brown's advice, they steaks should be allowed to sit out for while before cooking. That way they will cook through better, less chance of burning the exterior before the interior is brought up to cooked temperature. He gave other, more scientific reasons on various of his shows. Since he will actually go into more scientific testing of cooking procedures as opposed to just taking "that's the way it is done" approach, I will take his advice most of the time. Only I don't is when I have found something that works better for the way I cook.

P.S. wowser, AB has also disproven this "it will sear the outside and keep the juices inside" on a show, actually it doesn't. What searing does do is develop flavor.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2008 05:22PM by JoeH.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Stavs
Date: August 02, 2008 05:24PM
For filets I let them sit for a half hour, then cook them for 10 minutes on direct high heat (on the grill) flipping once, then I cook them on indirect medium (middle burner off) for another 8-10. Let sit for 2-3 minutes after I take'm off the grill and then eat.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: shadow
Date: August 02, 2008 05:44PM
For steaks, I use the following method (I think it is from AB, but I can't be sure):

(1) Let the steaks come up to room temp (1 - 2 hours)
(2) Preheat the grill to "Medium+" (just a little above Medium)
(3) Place the steaks on the grill "pointing" to 2 o'clock.
(4) After 5 minutes, rotate them to 10 o'clock.
(5) After 5 minutes, turn them and point to 2 o'clock.
(6) After 5 minutes, rotate them to 10 o'clock.
(7) Remove from heat, let rest under tin foil for 5 - 10 minutes, then serve.

I've also been known to use a salting method successfully. Just don't let the salt sit on too long.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: August 02, 2008 06:10PM
Quote
JoeH
P.S. wowser, AB has also disproven this "it will sear the outside and keep the juices inside" on a show, actually it doesn't. What searing does do is develop flavor.

Interesting. I've tested this a lot and found it to be true. I've done it on a broiling pan in an oven, and when the initial temp is lower, the steak releases more liquid and is dryer when finished. If I preheat the pan and the oven to ~600°, then put the steak in, it sears the outside and almost no liquid forms around the steak. It also pumps up quite a bit more.

I've done this quite a few times. I always cook them at as high of a temp as I can - depending on the steak, 5min per side. Then I lower it down to let it cook through. I also get way more complements than I used to.




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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 02, 2008 06:11PM
Why?

So they cook more evenly, outside to inside.
That's "why".

Unless you want overdone shoe leather on the outside, and raw meat on the inside...
If you like that, then be my guest; grill them right out of the fridge.

I'll leave them about an hour or hour and a half before grilling. Keeping in mind that "room temperture" here is typically around 65 degrees.... If it was 80+, 30min would probably be enough.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 02, 2008 06:58PM
Quote
M A V I C
Quote
JoeH
P.S. wowser, AB has also disproven this "it will sear the outside and keep the juices inside" on a show, actually it doesn't. What searing does do is develop flavor.

Interesting. I've tested this a lot and found it to be true. I've done it on a broiling pan in an oven, and when the initial temp is lower, the steak releases more liquid and is dryer when finished. If I preheat the pan and the oven to ~600°, then put the steak in, it sears the outside and almost no liquid forms around the steak. It also pumps up quite a bit more.

I've done this quite a few times. I always cook them at as high of a temp as I can - depending on the steak, 5min per side. Then I lower it down to let it cook through. I also get way more complements than I used to.

High heat boils off any liquid you do develop. In any case, he actually did the weights before and after. The seared steak weighed less when cooked to done at the same internal temperature. Even though the non-seared piece took a longer time in the oven. There may be other differences in how you are doing the process, that make enough of a difference in your end product.



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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: guitarist
Date: August 02, 2008 07:13PM
Jimmpoo, I'll take Alton Brown's professional expertise over what a "properly-run" Steakhouse does cranking out a hundred steaks a night.

Executive Chefs and Food Authors Anthony Bourdain and Alton Brown consistently advise home cooks to meat out of the cooler 30 minutes or so before cooking or grilling.

Restaurant methods favor what's practical and profitable above what's most desirable and flavorful. At home, commercial, volume, and storage factors don't interfere with a solo chef's ability to get optimal results.

Properly-run Steakhouses also serve steaks that are past their expiration date, due to be thrown out, to customers who ask for "well-done". The chefs value these customers. It's the perfect way to mask the rank, putrid taste of a no-longer-fresh cut of meat, when a customer wants it practically burned, he won't taste the difference anyway. That's how Executive Chefs manage their food supply and protect their razor-thin profit margins. If you don't think this is true, you might want to consider what Professional Chefs candidly reveal, in print, about what really goes on in the kitchens of expensive restaurants.

Having said that, it's possible to get nearly equally-good results either way. The differences are marginal and debatable, and depends on the beliefs of the individual home cook. In your own kitchen, you're King.

But if you take a chilled steak, throw it on the grill, and serve it to me, I'll just assume you're an amateur.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: August 02, 2008 07:23PM
I have an idea!!!! I will volunteer to travel throughout the country sampling steaks! smiling smiley

I suppose the first step is to get a list of people willing to host me for dinner, including, of course, where you live. Next, I'll map out the most efficient route, as well as an estimate of how long it will take to make the entire trip. While everybody is scrambling to sign up, I'll come up with the judging criteria.

Who's first?!
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Mike Johnson
Date: August 02, 2008 07:58PM
Of course a properly run restaurant will keep meat on ice until it's cooked. The health department would shut them down if they didn't. And of course Yahoo will advise you to do the same. If you leave your steak sitting out on the counter long enough to come to room temperature, it can breed who knows what.

That said, I've yet to taste steak in a restaurant that is as good as what I can make at home.

Now, a restaurant will often sear both sides and then roast a steak at 350 to finish. I don't think you can get a grill hot enough to properly sear a steak for that technique but you can do it in a cast iron pan, then put it in a preheated oven to finish. This, of course, assumes it's between 1 and 2" thick. Any smaller and searing it will cook it; any larger and you could do it on the grill too.

Or, you can let the steak lose some of its chill before cooking. That's what I do, but only if it's fresh. I examine it and sniff it, rinse it off, salt it, wrap it in Saran Wrap, and let it sit for maybe 45 minutes to two hours, depending on how thick it is. Rinse, pat dry, sniff, salt & pepper, cook.

Bringing it up to room temp makes a huge difference if you're cooking a tri-tip or other large roast. I wouldn't cook a tri-tip unless I could bring it close to room temperature first.

Brining is very popular but I suspect some of the great results people get from it come from bringing the temperature up, especially when they're cooking turkey. Of course, I wouldn't leave poultry out on the counter to warm up unless it was in brine.

Does searing seal in juices? People have debated this for years and I don't think the latest experts necessarily have the answer. In my opinion, it doesn't matter, because a well-seared steak simply tastes better, regardless. Some people like steaks that taste as though they were baked. I don't.



That's a lot of pesto.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 02, 2008 08:28PM
On the restaurant aspect -
A restaurant doesn't really know when a customer will come in or what that customer will order. Typical restaurants follow an Order/Fire procedure where the server will send a ticket to the kitchen "ordering" a steak. The kitchen will then pull the steak from refrigeration, season and get the meat ready.

Later, when the server has judged the table at the right time, the server will then send a "Fire" ticket to the kitchen to let them know the table is ready for the next course. At this point, the kitchen will cook the steak

For home cooking-
I typically leave the steak out for 20-30 minutes after I have seasoned it. This is to allow the steak to warm in temperature and for the salt and pepper to "penetrate" the meat. It also allows me time to start up the fire and get the coals and grill searingly hot. The "warm" meat cooks evenly and predictably. Just a couple of minutes on both sides to sear and the steak is a beautiful medium rare.

The caution with warming steaks is that the temperature resides in food safety's "hot zone" from 40F to 135F - the temperatures where bacteria thrives. If you've been handing the meat properly (i.e. always cold) and don't subject the meat to time/temperature abuse (where you allow the meat to warm and cool, warm and cool, in and out of the hot zone), then the chances of contamination are lessened.



On a side note-
Proper cooking is key. I just got back from a friends' house whom we helped move today. He went to Costco and bought this huge London Broil and marinated it in some sort of sweet bbq sauce and cooked it on the grill FOR TWO HOURS.

This is a guy who acts as though he knows food better than any of our friends. He prides himself on these large hunks of Costco commercial meat that he sauces the hell out of and obliterates during cooking. He brought out slices on the bias and they were just thin strips of grey meat. Good Heavens, it was terrible. All this bravado and talk about meat and cooking and the guy can't cook a piece of meat to save his life.

Dry beef and undercooked chicken. Should have taken us to the local Cracker Barrel...
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: davester
Date: August 02, 2008 08:31PM
Quote
Ken Sp.
I have read that you cook it all on one side, so the heat rises and cooks it through, then just do a quick flip at the end to sear the other side.

From a heat flow perspective, that would be the worst way to cook it. You'd have a very unevenly cooked steak, with a gradient from well done to rare from side to side.

By the way, heat doesn't rise, it moves from hot to cold no matter what the direction (up, down, left, right, whatever). People are often confused about this because hot air rises. However, the "hot air rises" principle only applies to gases, not steaks.




"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: davester
Date: August 02, 2008 08:34PM
It seems to me that about 1 minute in the microwave would be enough to warm the steak all the way through, which is the purpose of leaving the steaks out on the counter. That would also avoid any (admittedly very minor) risk of bacterial growth in the "leave out" period.

I would never leave a steak on the counter at my house. I don't like to feed my dogs that well.




"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Date: August 02, 2008 08:40PM
The episode in question:

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 02, 2008 08:59PM
Quote

He went to Costco and bought this huge London Broil and marinated it in some sort of sweet bbq sauce and cooked it on the grill FOR TWO HOURS.

That's a capital offense in some places...
Barbarian...



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: guitarist
Date: August 02, 2008 10:05PM
Another funny thing that home-grilling cooks do that unintentionally self-defeating is constantly flip the meat, not leaving it alone. Turning it every few minutes. Ideally, you put it on one side, cook that side. Then turn. Cook other side. Turning only once.

Re: "searing to seal in juices has been soundly debunked (thanks for the link!)

I think the benefit of searing has to do with flavor and texture, rather than preserving juice. It carmelizes the proteins and sugars (?) creating a smokey charred taste that some meat-lovers enjoy.

I like Alton Brown's segments, it's like the "Science Guy" of food.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Buzz
Date: August 02, 2008 10:16PM
For steaks, I use the following method:

(1) Let the steaks un-chill a bit (20-45 minutes), season about midway through un-chilling.
(2) Preheat the grill to "High".
(3) Place the steaks on the grill "pointing" to 2 o'clock.
(4) After 1 - 2 minutes, turn them, "pointing" to 2 o'clock.
(5) After 1 - 2 minutes, lower the grill to "Medium –" (slightly less than medium) turn them and point to 10 o'clock.
(6) After 4 - 5 minutes, turn them and point to 10 o'clock.
(7) After 4 - 5 minutes, remove from heat, let rest under tin foil for 5 - 10 minutes, then serve.
(8) During steps 6 & 7, depending on type and thickness of the steaks, possibly/partially cover the steaks/close grill for up to half of the lower heat cooking time (it's an acquired art form)... the steaks can tell the difference between a surface heat and a covered "baking" heat; w/ the goal being to create as even as possible of a heat distribution throughout the steak. The rest period also helps in this regard, as the steak does continue to cook a bit while it rests.

The key to a perfect steak is the same as for a good joke; timing.

As the steak cooks, its texture changes, and different types of steaks have different textures. For now, lets assume we have a nice NY strip that feels like firm gelatin, but without quite as much "wiggle" before it's cooked. Then colder it is, the firmer it is. Immediately after searing, you can still feel the gelatinous quality under the surface.

"Feeling" for this process, means one or two gloved fingers, or a spoon, or back side of a fork, pressed gently against the steak and moved back and forth around a quarter of an inch.

When the steak is just about warmed, or cooked, all the way through, it's texture changes to start feeling more "spongy" than gelatinous. The key, at the lower finishing heat, is to ascertain precisely when the last bit of gelatinous feeling has ebbed, and give the steak about another 30 - 45 seconds on the grill (depending on thickness). This will yield an incredibly tasty medium-rare steak for your enjoyment after its brief rest. An additional minute to two minutes will get you to a firmer "spongy" feeling for a steak that still has its pink, but is your basic medium doneness. After that, Buzz leaves the grill; anybody wanting overcooked steak is on their own.

Now, as to the original "controversy"... a too chilled steak handles cooking differently, and inhibits the steak from achieving its goal of that even-throughout heat distribution. While it may ultimately be achievable, in order to do so, the internal temperature has to rise more, relative to essentially the same outer temperature, so one, or both, of two things is going to happen; the steak will not attain its uniform temperature until that temperature is higher, and/or the window of opportunity to sense the all-important texture morphing will be dramatically shortened for which to sense when to remove the steak from the grill. With either, the odds will be moving in favor of an overcooked steak, or a partially eaten, undercooked steak that has to get tossed back on the grill.

AlphaDog, as you know, we're out here in sunny and shaken So. CA, and would be happy to throw an extra steak on for you...
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: WHiiP
Date: August 02, 2008 11:43PM
Quote
guitarist
Jimmpoo, I'll take Alton Brown's professional expertise over what a "properly-run" Steakhouse does cranking out a hundred steaks a night.

Executive Chefs and Food Authors Anthony Bourdain and Alton Brown consistently advise home cooks to meat out of the cooler 30 minutes or so before cooking or grilling.

Restaurant methods favor what's practical and profitable above what's most desirable and flavorful. At home, commercial, volume, and storage factors don't interfere with a solo chef's ability to get optimal results.

Properly-run Steakhouses also serve steaks that are past their expiration date, due to be thrown out, to customers who ask for "well-done". The chefs value these customers. It's the perfect way to mask the rank, putrid taste of a no-longer-fresh cut of meat, when a customer wants it practically burned, he won't taste the difference anyway. That's how Executive Chefs manage their food supply and protect their razor-thin profit margins. If you don't think this is true, you might want to consider what Professional Chefs candidly reveal, in print, about what really goes on in the kitchens of expensive restaurants.

Having said that, it's possible to get nearly equally-good results either way. The differences are marginal and debatable, and depends on the beliefs of the individual home cook. In your own kitchen, you're King.

But if you take a chilled steak, throw it on the grill, and serve it to me, I'll just assume you're an amateur.

What a crock . . .

PROPERLY run steak houses do NOT serve any item beyond it's expiration date. UN-Properly run places might, but that wouldn't be limited to steak houses. Properly run steak houses have an inventory control system and people trained in how to handle the orderly process of receiving and rotating said inventory. The local HEALTH DEPARTMENT would like nothing better than to shut a restaurant down that shuns this deadly practice.

This is not a perfect world, but the crap that you come up with and spout out like an expert is ludicrous . . . stick to music, IF that is a viable option!



Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: August 03, 2008 11:24AM
I have heard about the "green meat" practice at 1 owner restaurants. I've confirmed it,
actually.

I would assume the kind of place they refer to might be a Ruth Chris or other high end
place known for top notch beef.
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: guitarist
Date: August 03, 2008 07:39PM
Quote


PROPERLY run steak houses do NOT serve any item beyond it's expiration date. UN-Properly run places might, but that wouldn't be limited to steak houses. Properly run steak houses have an inventory control system and people trained in how to handle the orderly process of receiving and rotating said inventory. The local HEALTH DEPARTMENT would like nothing better than to shut a restaurant down that shuns this deadly practice.

Wishful thinking, perhaps?

First of all, it's not a "deadly practice", it's a common practice that poses no health risks. If you think otherwise, you might just be an ideal customer!

This common practice violates no health codes whatsoever, it's perfectly compliant to serve a product that is within hours, or minutes, of the expiration date. (who said 'past' expiration date? And since when are the official expiration dates not sometimes altered to suit the seller?) Just because the Steakhouse serves the least appetizing, least fresh cut of meat they have in storage doesn't mean they're not in full compliance with health code requirements.

The meat that otherwise would have ended up in the garbage can (restaurants throw away countless tons of food regularly, both fresh and stale) is being served to the hapless "well-done" ordering customer isn't a health hazard. Taste hazard, maybe, but...

...since the customer is actually asking for it to be overcooked, the Chef knows this customer can't taste the difference anyway. The restaurant---that well-regarded, expensive one with the star chef, good management, solid-gold health practices, and a four-star rating-- has an opportunity to avoid wasting usable inventory.

If we're talking about the mythical "properly-run" standard, as opposed to actual restaurants, with licenses, chefs, and customers, that do actual business, it's possible to imagine any ideal scenario we want, and pretend the imaginer's personal opinion is the widely-accepted standard. But that doesn't make it true.

Do all restaurants use this practice of pawning off their least fresh meat to well-done ordering customers? I hope not. Most probably don't. Certainly, we like to think most serve their best meat to every customer, no matter how they order it. But do more restaurants use this inventory management practice more often than we're comfortable thinking about? Of course they do. Even the best, most "properly-run" restaurants we've been to.

No pets have been harmed, or health codes violated. Then what's the beef? Having illusions about what restaurants really do challenged by reports from professional chefs speaking on the record about it?

We haven't even started talking about fish yet, or hollandaise sauce! Or Brunch!
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 03, 2008 07:52PM
Quote
guitarist
...
This common practice violates no health codes whatsoever, it's perfectly compliant to serve a product that is within hours, or minutes, of the expiration date. (who said 'past' expiration date? And since when are the official expiration dates not sometimes altered to suit the seller?) Just because the Steakhouse serves the least appetizing, least fresh cut of meat they have in storage doesn't mean they're not in full compliance with health code requirements.
...

lets see... scroll up a little bit:

Quote
guitarist

Properly-run Steakhouses also serve steaks that are past their expiration date, due to be thrown out, to customers who ask for "well-done". T

that's "past their expiration date" to me. Now you accused me on another post about using DU instead of Disk Utility and then said that I am confused and unable to type whole words, but I see you're in a much worse shape. You can't even remember what you wrote. who's confused, huh?
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Re: Grilling Controversy continues! Room temp or cold for steaks??
Posted by: guitarist
Date: August 04, 2008 08:08AM
Hey, you typed all that out with no acronyms. You CAN do it!

I can see from your post that I did try to have it both ways, damn. Busted!

LOL

Touche!

The premise is questionable. We know supermarket products are required to have sell-by dates. Not necessarily true of high-volume containers of beef, fish, or poultry items supplied to restaurants. As those of use who've been around restaurant kitchens have observed, cuts of meat delivered in volume to large kitchens are not packaged in individual shrink-wrapped plastic trays and stamped with "official expiration dates".

It's at the Executive Chef's discretion when perishable foods are declared out of circulation. Obviously, responsible chefs detect when a perishable food is no longer servable. And knowing this, the responsible Chef uses every single possible day or hour that meat can be served before sacrificing it.

The least fresh (nearly rank) meat is conveniently served to the most well-done orders. The rarest meat orders require the freshest. This is not exactly news, nor is it mysterious.

At supermarkets, cartons of milk have expiration dates, eggs and meats have sell-by dates (though these dates are known to tampered with by creative grocery store staff, it's not an uncommon practice, according to an expose not long ago) but with restaurants...

There is no OFFICIAL EXPIRATION date on ANY individual steak in the Streakhouse's walk-in refrigerator.

As long as we're focused on the details, rather than the point--- I was wrong---but I was wrong even further back, because the "expiration date" detail made no sense. How can a Chef serve a steak "past its expiration date" if there isn't one? Other than his or her own professional judgment?
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