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™ or ® question
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: August 05, 2008 12:12PM
If a company like Quark trademarks "Quark" they have the right to use the ™ and later the ®. But how does that apply to their logo? Is that a separate application? Or since it is Quark's logo does it automatically inherit the ™ or ®?

(discalimer: Quark is just the first company that popped into my head)




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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: lipskidder
Date: August 05, 2008 12:16PM
The trademark the name (as text) and if they ant to they can trademark the actual logo (as artwork). They are two separate things and need to be registered separately.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: August 05, 2008 12:46PM
[www.uspto.gov]

Quote


What is the difference between TM and the R within the circle ®?

Use of the TM and SM symbols may be governed by local, state, or foreign laws and the laws of a pertinent jurisdiction to identify the marks that a party claims rights to. The federal registration symbol, the R enclosed within a circle, may be used once the mark is actually registered in the USPTO. Even though an application is pending, the registration symbol may not be used before the mark has actually become registered.

The federal registration symbol should only be used on goods or services that are the subject of the federal trademark registration.

PLEASE NOTE: Several foreign countries use the letter R enclosed within a circle to indicate that a mark is registered in that country. Use of the symbol by the holder of a foreign registration may be proper.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: August 05, 2008 12:46PM
I find it all very confusing. I guess Quark is a bad example since its logo is a symbol. How about something like the word "Ford"? It would be registered. But if they didn't register the "logo" they wouldn't be able to use the ® next to it even though the logo spells out the word "Ford"?




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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: lipskidder
Date: August 05, 2008 12:50PM
Correct. The ® is for when it it submitted, cleared and fully registered. You can always use ™ next to the logo artwork because it is legally protected from it's creation. Registering it just helps protect you in court. Courts rarely look twice after it's registered. It's your best friend.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: August 05, 2008 12:53PM
I understand the differences between the ® and the ™. I'm just trying to understand the trademarked word vs the trademarked logo. hence the Ford example. The word Ford exists in both word and logo form. So they have to be trademarked separately? Even though they both use the same word?




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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: lipskidder
Date: August 05, 2008 12:57PM
Yes, you do not see the ® on the Ford (text) because it is used for legality purposes. You only see the ® on the logo because that is what the public sees. Try submitting a trademark and you will see that you have an option to submit as text or as artwork. You can trademark "Bazookaman Gun Parts" if you want and type it all over the internet with a ® after it but if you create a visual that you don't want "Bazookaman Sink Repair" to use then you have to trademark that logo artwork as well. That's what I am trying to explain.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: August 05, 2008 12:58PM
okey dokey.

I just find it strange that I could register a "Bazookaman Gun Parts" logo, but someone else could register the words "Bazookaman Gun Parts".




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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2008 01:02PM by bazookaman.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: lipskidder
Date: August 05, 2008 01:31PM
John in Ohio has had a small gun parts shop for the last 40 years in a small town. He had his son design a logo for his shop Bazookaman Gun Parts. He trademarks the logo.

Bill is a millionaire and and bought out 10 local gun parts shops in the Chicago area last year and starts a business called Bazookaman Gun Parts and trademarks the name. He then hires an ad firm to design a logo for him and his shop Bazookaman Gun Parts. He gets that trademarked as well.

Bill can't use John's logo because John trademarked it but he can design one of his own and trademark that. All because it's just artwork they are trademarking. Bill can trademark the name because John never did.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: August 05, 2008 07:53PM
Bill initially can't get a trademark on his name or logo because John's attorney files an interference on the premise that there's a likelihood of confusion between the two marks, especially with Bill's thriving interstate-trade.

Then Bill's lawyer makes the argument that John's mark is only used locally and therefore it can't be registered as a federal trademark while Bill does business with enthusiasts throughout the nation. John loses his trademark. Bill gets his trademark.

John discovers that had he registered with the state of Ohio for a local mark before Bill registered for his federal mark, he might have had territorial exclusivity for his mark in those parts of Ohio where he was known to do business. Having failed to register locally before Bill registered his federal mark, John now has no trademark protection at all.

John sues his attorney for malpractice and loses because the attorney relied upon John's representations that he qualified for a federal trademark.

John now owes a lot of money to creditors for all of these legal proceedings. He takes out a loan from a mobster, fails to pay and soon he's in a hospital with broken kneecaps. He considers renaming his gun parts shop "Bazooka John's."
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: Sam3
Date: August 05, 2008 08:27PM
Now, how does the copyright symbol (c in a circle) come into play? I've seen a logo with the copyright symbol next to it. Is it valid for anything?


In other words, does the copyright symbol offer any protection?
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: August 05, 2008 08:41PM
[www.copyright.gov]

Quote


For works first published on and after March 1, 1989, use of the copyright notice is optional. Before March 1, 1989, the use of the notice was mandatory on all published works. Omitting the notice on any work first published before that date could result in the loss of copyright protection if corrective steps are not taken within a certain amount of time. The curative steps are described in this circular under “Omission of Notice and Errors in Notice.”

...

The notice for visually perceptible copies should contain three elements. They should appear together or in close proximity on the copies. The elements are:

1. The symbol © (the letter C in a circle), or the word “Copyright,” or the abbreviation “Copr.”; and

2. The year of first publication. If the work is a derivative work or a compilation incorporating previously published material, the year date of first publication of the derivative work or compilation is sufficient. Examples of derivative works are translations or dramatizations; an example of a compilation is an anthology.

The year may be omitted when a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work, with accompanying textual matter, if any, is reproduced in or on greeting cards, postcards, stationery, jewelry, dolls, toys, or useful articles; and

3. The name of the owner of copyright in the work, or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or a generally known alternative designation of the owner.*
Example: © 2007 Jane Doe

...

*The United States is a member of the Universal Copyright Convention (the UCC), which came into force on September 16, 1955. To guarantee protection for a copyrighted work in all UCC member countries, the notice must consist of the symbol © (the word “Copyright” or the abbreviation is not acceptable), the year of first publication, and the name of the copyright proprietor. Example: © 2007 John Doe.

Quote


So, while the notice on new works is now optional in the US, if you want international protection use a notice in the appropriate form.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: Plumbking
Date: August 05, 2008 09:29PM
Quote
MacMagus
John now owes a lot of money to creditors for all of these legal proceedings. He takes out a loan from a mobster, fails to pay and soon he's in a hospital with broken kneecaps. He considers renaming his gun parts shop "Bazooka John's."

LOL
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: Monster
Date: August 05, 2008 09:47PM
I'm infringing on bazookaman







UP YOURS!

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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 05, 2008 09:48PM
now how do you type these 2 symbols?
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: August 05, 2008 10:04PM
Trademark: Option+2 = ™

Registered Trademark: Option+R = ®

Copyright: Option+G = ©
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: M>B>
Date: August 05, 2008 10:12PM
Or you could use PopCharX to visually see and choose all options for fonts...

[www.macility.com]
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 05, 2008 11:21PM
I prefer the keyboard commands.



We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

I *love* Sigs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: M>B>
Date: August 06, 2008 12:37AM
Thats true for the common ones but for something like...

Ж or ⌘

Thats when a good visual comes in handy.

Edit, well that didn't work out well. Looks like the commands you have to use on a PC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2008 12:40AM by M>B>.
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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: August 06, 2008 08:22AM
Quote
Monster
I'm infringing on bazookaman

LOL!




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Re: ™ or ® question
Posted by: Monster
Date: August 06, 2008 12:08PM
thought you might like that.



UP YOURS!

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