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TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 26, 2009 06:31PM
(for those outside the US or anyone who may not be aware). It the US, in most places, it is legal to make a right turn on RED after you come to a full stop, make sure there is no traffic, and then proceed with caution. Sometimes there are signs that may say "NO TURN ON RED" (or something similar) and then you cannot do the above maneuver.

As far as I remember, the law in PA when I took my US drivers license said something like: "You may make a RIGHT turn on RED is there is no sign that says..."

the key word is MAY. I understand that you can turn RIGHT on RED if there is no traffic and you feel safe and if you want, but you don't really have to.

The question is: do you HAVE TO turn on red if there is no sign? I have seen a few cases where there was a car with the right blinker ON stopped at the red light, there was no sign with "no turn on red" and the car was not moving. yes, there were no other cars coming, so the car could have made the turn on red. but the driver didn't turn on red, and other cars behind him started honking their horns and got mad...

heck even worse happened to me: was was waiting for the green light, and there WAS a "no turn on red" sign, so even if I wanted to, I could not have made the turn (legally, that is). and I still got honked by the car behind.

That's all.

Now a bonus question: when it is legal to make a LEFT TURN ON RED? Yes, this is a question for the US audience, not for voodoopenguin (where is he my the way?). it's also a question for those driving cards, not for bicycles or motorcycles (there was a thread about motorcycles and bicycles not tripping the sensors a few days ago). That's not it either.

There are certain cases where you can make a left turn on red, yes, driving a big hummer.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: freeradical
Date: August 26, 2009 06:36PM
I believe that it's legal in most states IF it's a one way street.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: earache
Date: August 26, 2009 06:37PM
I don't think you have to turn right on a red, but if you are a proactive or attentive driver you will turn if given the opportunity.

Bonus question answer: You can turn Left on a red when turning onto a one way street.



earache
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 26, 2009 06:43PM
Quote
freeradical
I believe that it's legal in most states IF it's a one way street.

If you are turning from a one way street AND if you are in the far left lane. So turning tight, and STAYING IN YOUR OWN DANG LANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The right on red is also after waiting at a full stop for at least 3 seconds (in Washington State at least)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2009 06:44PM by Racer X.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: olnacl
Date: August 26, 2009 06:43PM
Left turn on red from a one way street to a one way street is what I was taught. (Obviously the direction of traffic on both streets has to coincide)

I'd be among those giving a gentle toot of the horn while a driver sat through a red light with his right turn signal blinking and neither sign nor traffic hindering him/her from making the turn safely







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2009 06:50PM by olnacl.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: the_poochies
Date: August 26, 2009 06:44PM
Right on red is illegal in NYC. Finding the NYC expats in my 'hood is easy because they sit at a red light with their right blinker on and don't move until the light turns green.angry smileycursing smiley
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: August 26, 2009 06:57PM
When turning from one one-way street to another one-way street you may turn left on red, assuming that the one-way traffic is moving in the correct direction. For example, you are traveling north on a one-way street and you want to turn west on another one-way street. It does not apply if turning to or from a street with 2-way traffic because you would be crossing traffic that has the right of way.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2009 07:00PM by ztirffritz.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Black
Date: August 26, 2009 07:06PM
Quote
space-time
The question is: do you HAVE TO turn on red if there is no sign? I have seen a few cases where there was a car with the right blinker ON stopped at the red light, there was no sign with "no turn on red" and the car was not moving. yes, there were no other cars coming, so the car could have made the turn on red. but the driver didn't turn on red, and other cars behind him started honking their horns and got mad...

Good question-- I'd be interested to know too.




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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Buzz
Date: August 26, 2009 07:18PM
I simply call 911 (via the headset, of course) to report anyone that honks while stopped at a posted 'No Right Turn On Red' sign, since they "are clearly too impaired to be driving" as I tell the operator along w/ the offender's license plate number and description of the driver and their vehicle.
smileys with beer



Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Black
Date: August 26, 2009 07:24PM
Quote
Buzz
I simply call 911 (via the headset, of course) to report anyone that honks while stopped at a posted 'No Right Turn On Red' sign, since they "are clearly too impaired to be driving" as I tell the operator along w/ the offender's license plate number and description of the driver and their vehicle.
smileys with beer
Seriously? Way to clog up the emergency system. If you're just kidding, I apologize.
I pretty much always call drivers on such behavior though, if I'm close enough- almost all whacked-out ragers drive with their windows open, for some reason.




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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: August 26, 2009 07:40PM
Have any of you ever looked at the license plates of those cars not taking their free right turn? There are still some places where it's not legal, and, when I'm driving in an unfamiliar area, I don't take a free right turn unless I see some indication that it is legal. Just because it's allowed where I'm licensed doesn't make me assume it's OK everywhere.

Also keep in mind that the people sitting there not turning right might not have a field of vision as clear as you think. When I was driving small cars, I couldn't always see around the car on my left, especially if that car was actually some 10 foot tall hurkin' 4 wheel drive pickup that was pulled up beyond the vehicle stop line.

I take free right turns whenever I can do it safely, but I don't get bent out of shape if someone chooses not to. There is one road I often travel where I know the majority of traffic will want to turn right at a specific intersection. Sometimes I'm one of them, and sometimes I'm not. If I want to go straight through that intersection, I move over one lane so I don't block the free right turn for the cars behind me. I often get the feeling I'm the only person that thinks that far ahead. sad smiley
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 26, 2009 07:50PM
Quote
AlphaDog
...
If I want to go straight through that intersection, I move over one lane so I don't block the free right turn for the cars behind me. I often get the feeling I'm the only person that thinks that far ahead. sad smiley

you're certainly "rare", but not the only one smiling smiley
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: August 26, 2009 08:11PM
Quote
olnacl
Left turn on red from a one way street to a one way street is what I was taught. (Obviously the direction of traffic on both streets has to coincide)

This is my understanding as well.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Wailer
Date: August 26, 2009 08:46PM
When making a right turn, you are NEVER required to turn on a red.

You may not have proper visibility or not feel that it clear enough to go without the right-of-way.

Also, You MAY NOT turn on green unless it is clear either.

If you turn right on a green and there is still a car in the intersection that you hit, it is your fault. Green means "go if it is clear" not "go no matter what".

Lots of people will honk but f-them.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: August 26, 2009 09:20PM
When someone behind me honks, I assume they're warning me of a dangerous road hazard. Therefore, I always get out and walk completely around the car to check that I'm not endangering any small children or endangered dragonfly species.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: yeoman
Date: August 26, 2009 09:49PM
I asked a cop this question the other day...

If a red stop light also has a right filter arrow at red is it OK to come to halt and then proceed right?

The cop didn't know. Neither do I. Someone want to enlighten me
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 26, 2009 09:53PM
That may depend on your state. Here a lit red arrow pointing right means stop, and stay stopped. In other words, the equivalent of a posted No Turn on Red sign.



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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: yeoman
Date: August 26, 2009 10:00PM
That's what I thought but cars were pulling around me and going through the filter despite a cop car sitting there watching - so I did too with no after affects! Could just be normal Florida friendliness even if illegal.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: tenders
Date: August 26, 2009 10:02PM
> If a red stop light also has a right filter arrow at red is it OK to come to halt and then proceed right?

No way. A lit red arrow means DO NOT TURN IN THAT DIRECTION until the red arrow is no longer lit. It often means the traffic coming the other direction has a green arrow allowing them to turn left.

There is a light down the street from me that has both a red right filter arrow and a regular red light for northbound traffic. I think the way it works is this: when the southbound traffic is getting a left green filter arrow, the northbound sees a red light and the red right filter arrow. When the southbound traffic loses the left green filter arrow and gets a regular green light, the northbound traffic loses the red right filter arrow for a while, then gets the green light.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: August 26, 2009 10:29PM
There's one of those around here, too, and it means that traffic cannot turn right because the signal for pedestrians to cross is activated. Of course, not wanting to take chances, there's also a sign that says "No turn on red arrow", which I've noticed people ignore if they don't see any people - and sometimes even if they do. sad smiley
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: DewGuy
Date: August 26, 2009 11:45PM
From Michigan's "What Every Driver Must Know":
Right Turns on Red Lights 
Unless a sign tells you “no turn on 
red,” you may turn right at a red light 
after coming to a complete stop.  You 
must yield to pedestrians and approach- 
ing traffic.   Make sure to look to your 
left, front, and right for any oncoming 
traffic, motorcycles, bicycles, or pedes- 
trians before starting your turn.  Then 
turn carefully.

Some Left Turns on Red Lights 
Unless a sign tells you “no turn on 
red,” you may turn left on a red light 
when entering a one-way street from 
another one-way street, but you must 
first stop and yield to cross traffic. 
You may also make a left turn from a 
two-way street onto a one-way street 
with traffic going in the same direction 
as the turn. Yield first to pedestrians and 
approaching traffic.

A steady red arrow means you must stop.  You cannot 
turn until the signal changes. 
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Black
Date: August 26, 2009 11:56PM
Quote
Wailer
When making a right turn, you are NEVER required to turn on a red.
You seem to be the only one to have addressed this question.
Do you have a source? Is this universal, or could it possibly vary by state?


Quote
Wailer
Also, You MAY NOT turn on green unless it is clear either.
This is one that most Chicago drivers have all but forgotten over the past few decades.




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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Black
Date: August 26, 2009 11:57PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
When someone behind me honks, I assume they're warning me of a dangerous road hazard. Therefore, I always get out and walk completely around the car to check that I'm not endangering any small children or endangered dragonfly species.

I like the way you think :-)




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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Wailer
Date: August 27, 2009 12:23AM
Quote
Black
Quote
Wailer
When making a right turn, you are NEVER required to turn on a red.
You seem to be the only one to have addressed this question.
Do you have a source? Is this universal, or could it possibly vary by state?

I don't have a source for this, but I believe it as universal as the basic speed law, which states that you are never supposed to go faster than the conditions dictate. Conditions include the weather, visibility, driver's physical and emotional state, car's mechanical condition, etc.

If you turn right on a red and are involved in a collision with someone who has the right-of-way, you will always be liable. So I just can't see how you could ever be required to turn without having the right-of-way.

For what it's worth, I always turn right on red (when it's clear and legal) and although I might get slightly impatient by other driver's who don't, I completely understand that it's their prerogative. I would never honk or give them any attitude.

I don't think a lot of driver's realize that it is illegal to turn right on red onto a multi-lane street unless ALL lanes are clear. We have a lot of 6 lane boulevards here in Los Angeles, and I see people turning into the rightmost one on red all the time even though there is traffic in the other 2. Yes, it is illegal for the others to change lanes in an intersection, but I've seen many collisions result from both drivers doing these illegal maneuvers. I believe the one turning right is more liable.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: August 27, 2009 03:21AM
Quote
tenders
> If a red stop light also has a right filter arrow at red is it OK to come to halt and then proceed right?

No way. A lit red arrow means DO NOT TURN IN THAT DIRECTION until the red arrow is no longer lit. It often means the traffic coming the other direction has a green arrow allowing them to turn left.

When you make a right on red, even legally, you are turning where another traffic flow has the right of way. That's why you have to stop and make sure it's clear.

Not saying that you are wrong about the arrow, but that the reason doesn't seem correct.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: DRR
Date: August 27, 2009 06:50AM
RED ARROW means DO NOT TURN ON RED. If it meant the same thing as a red light, what's the point of adding a red arrow light?
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: August 27, 2009 07:23AM
Quote
DRR
RED ARROW means DO NOT TURN ON RED. If it meant the same thing as a red light, what's the point of adding a red arrow light?

Relax, man. The laws vary by state. There may be a red arrow just to indicate that the lane is a turn-only lane. Who knows?
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: billb
Date: August 27, 2009 07:24AM
Quote
DRR
RED ARROW means DO NOT TURN ON RED. If it meant the same thing as a red light, what's the point of adding a red arrow light?

In some ares where there can be snow on the ground covering lane markings, arrows are used also for lane use designations. (right lane turn only and left lane turn only).
We even have shared lanes with a solid light and an arrow light.
Nicest I've seen upstate New York and some cities in Canada where they get copious amounts of lake effect snow are lane mark use signs, lights all overhead .
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Black
Date: August 27, 2009 07:36AM
Quote
billb
Quote
DRR
RED ARROW means DO NOT TURN ON RED. If it meant the same thing as a red light, what's the point of adding a red arrow light?

In some ares where there can be snow on the ground covering lane markings, arrows are used also for lane use designations. (right lane turn only and left lane turn only).
We even have shared lanes with a solid light and an arrow light.
Nicest I've seen upstate New York and some cities in Canada where they get copious amounts of lake effect snow are lane mark use signs, lights all overhead .

Interesting-- I've seen this style in other cities (in Ontario maybe?) and didn't make the snow connection- thanks.




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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 27, 2009 07:41AM
... all very informative. However, if you approach a red stoplight at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, the red-shift will cause the red light to look somewhat bluish/green, and you may perforce proceed through it.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 27, 2009 09:06AM
Space,

The answer to your question depends on local law. However, typically, if right turn on red is permitted, you may make the right turn. It is absolutely not imperative. However, and it's a big however, right turn on red is not universal. In the five boroughs of New York City - Manhattan, Queens, The Bronx, Staten Island and Westchester - drivers are not permitted to make a right turn on red unless a sign (or other traffic device) specifically says it is permitted. But, again, even if right turn on red is permitted, it is by no means imperative.

There is a particular intersection in the city limits a few minutes from my parent's house where it is permitted. However, it's often not safe to make the turn. I've seen drivers choose to wait for the light to change due to unsafe turning conditions and other drivers honk at them to the point of hysteria as if the world will come to an abrupt end if they have to wait the extra few seconds.

To the best of my knowledge, you are permitted to make a left turn on red if you are turning onto a one way street. But,in my experience, the circumstances that allow for this are so few and far between that I doubt it occurs to anyone to even consider doing it. There are places where I am allowed to make the left on red but still choose not to do so because it is neither safe under normal circumstances and, when it is safe, not worth it.

Robert
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Z
Date: August 27, 2009 09:37AM
In Quebec, you cannot make a right on red while in Montreal. In the remainder of the province, however, it is legal to make a right on red. Not sure if you're required to do so.

In Anchorage, most people will make a right on red or green, regardless if someone is in or is thinking about being in the crosswalk. Ask me how I know.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 27, 2009 10:31AM
Quote
cbelt3
... all very informative. However, if you approach a red stoplight at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, the red-shift will cause the red light to look somewhat bluish/green, and you may perforce proceed through it.

old joke, I think Fizeau tried this argument and got a speeding ticket instead. could have been some other crazy Physicist though, I don't remember it for sure
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 27, 2009 10:34AM
Quote
Z
...
In Anchorage, most people will make a right on red or green, regardless if someone is in or is thinking about being in the crosswalk. Ask me how I know.

how do you know?
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: tenders
Date: August 27, 2009 10:50PM
> In the five boroughs of New York City - Manhattan, Queens, The
> Bronx, Staten Island and Westchester - drivers are not permitted to
> make a right turn on red

Jeebus H. Crispix, Mr. M, it's a big world out there. Not all of it can be seen from the LIE! First of all, Westchester sure isn't part of NYC, and second of all, you CAN make a right on red in Westchester, and third of all, you forgot about BROOKLYN.
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Re: TURN ON RED questions!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 28, 2009 06:39AM
Tenders,

D'oh! I meant to say Brooklyn instead of Westchester. Dang! I knew there was something not quite right about that post, just couldn't put my finger on it due to lack of caffeine! Definitely need to finish my third and fourth morning cups of coffee before jotting a post! Westchester is definitely not one of the five boroughs. Swap that out for Brooklyn. and, in Westchester - like Nassau County and Suffolk county, you can make a right turn on red. Glad you caught that one.

Robert
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