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Why do smokers...............
Posted by: JPK
Date: September 04, 2009 08:30AM
Think it is ok to litter their cigarette butts everywhere.

I don't smoke, I hate the smell of cigarette smoke, but do think people have the right to do this. Here in Illinois, they have banned smoking just about everywhere and where it is still legal, they have taxed cigarettes at a VERY high rate.

On the way in to work, some jag dork in front of my flicked his butt out and it hit my car.

Do smokers think this is not littering or not rude?

I would think the way smokers are getting their "rights" trampled, they would be a thoughtful and considerate as they could as to sway public opinion.

When I got off the highway, I stopped at a light and there were literally thousands of cigarette butts at the stoplight in the gutter or curb area.

JPK
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Stavs
Date: September 04, 2009 08:33AM
Why do non smokers use ash trays as trash cans?
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: the_poochies
Date: September 04, 2009 08:38AM
Why do smokers litter my front lawn with crumpled up cigarette boxes and clear plastic wrappers from said boxes?
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: DaviDC.
Date: September 04, 2009 08:41AM
Why do people complain about things that in the end, matter not at all?



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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 04, 2009 08:42AM
Sadly it's learned behaviour.

The other factor is that auto manufacturers stopped putting ashtrays in vehicles years ago.

Even my wife, who is normally an exceptionally tidy person, will flick her used cigarette butts out the car window. She does, however, stub them out beforehand. She's heard me curse at drivers who throw 'meteors' at me. And when I was driving a car with a leaky fuel line, I used to curse at them a LOT.

I wish she would stop smoking, but she's got that 'addictive' trait, so I guess I'm glad it's just tobacco. She has quit for each pregnancy, but always fell back off the wagon.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: billb
Date: September 04, 2009 08:44AM
They hide under the scratch tickets and beer cans here.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Tofer
Date: September 04, 2009 08:45AM
JPK--I'm with you. It's littering no matter how you look at it, and there isn't any excuse. A similar thing happened to me this morning--I was walking out of my apartment past my car (I walk to school/work), and my late-teen neighbor was sitting in what looked like his Dad's car (Dad driving), smoking. Before they pulled out, he flicked the cigarette next to my car, still smoldering. I probably should have said something, but the kid looked pretty distraught, so I figured I'd pick another battle.

I think there are many possibilities about why they do it; here are two:

1. Smokers don't particularly think about it or care about it.

2. They figure that their rights have been so 'trampled' as you say, that this is one way to stick it to those making them smoke outside.

Your jag driver probably just fits into case (1).
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: guitarist
Date: September 04, 2009 08:49AM
Why do smokers think they have a right to live? Why aren't they in concentration camps, or at least reeducation camps? Why aren't they chained to a pole in front of my house, washing my car? Why aren't they wearing special arm bands to identify themselves, so I can horsewhip them in public, with the full support of onlookers?
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: AAA
Date: September 04, 2009 08:54AM
I am from a smoking family. I have never even tried it.
I have always been curious why people think it's okay to throw a cig butt onto the ground. Well, at least since the crying Indian, circa 1975(?), I have been curious. Before then, we threw all our trash on the ground, out the windows, etc. More jobs for people to clean up after us. I'd like to see more street cleaners around my house, too, btw.

But, I am not going to lose sleep over this.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 04, 2009 08:57AM
smokers are weak and hateful people.



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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 04, 2009 08:59AM
The difference between someone's freedom to do as they wish and someone else's freedom not to be harmed by the actions of the other are the bedrock of civilization's laws.

So no, I don't equate a smoker's right to smoke with a right to pollute or annoy. They each exist, but NOT on the same level.

Why do non smokers use ash trays as trash cans?

Because cigarette ash is trash? (But as we've all observed, apparently "not.")

I just love the whole concept of "acceptable trash," i.e. personal trash vs. public trash, as if one isn't the same as the other. Right up there with, "My @#$%& doesn't stink!"
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: September 04, 2009 09:02AM
What's an ashtray? It's been so long since I've seen someone smoking I've forgotten that people still do it.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 04, 2009 09:04AM
Why do people complain about things that in the end, matter not at all?

Why do people say stupid things?

Fires and burn damage are caused by tossed cigarette butts. That matters to some people.


The nicer the car, the less likely the smoker is using its ashtray.

If somebody is flicking their ashes out the vehicle window, it's easy money that they'll flick the butt out the window as well.

Both are littering.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: September 04, 2009 09:15AM
I can always tell a smoker on the road, they always have their window
down an 1" or so, so they don't have to breath harmful second hand
smoke
. They actually think they'll not smell as bad with the window open,
wrong. The other day I popped into a convenience store for no more
than 45 seconds, I got back in the car and my wife is like you stink like
cigarette smoke. It got in my clothes that fast. My late Dad smoked from
age 12 to about 68 and finally got scared enough to stop. I hated when
he smoked around us but naturally never said anything.



Grateful11




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2009 09:15AM by Grateful11.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: billb
Date: September 04, 2009 09:19AM
Why are cigarette butts any different than all the other trash people throw out windows ?
Too many people are inconsiderate pigs , not just smokers.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: decay
Date: September 04, 2009 09:24AM
i think they've removed ashtrays from most cars.

MOST smokers don't care about where their butts go, out of sight, out of mind.

the small minority will take care to toss their butts in the proper place.

gross & sad.



---
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: guitarist
Date: September 04, 2009 09:33AM
smokers people who observe the behavior of one individual and then attribute that behavior to an entire segment of the population are self-serving, hateful, narrow-minded individuals.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: volcs0
Date: September 04, 2009 09:36AM
And while we're at it... why do people think it is ok for their dogs to piss all over the front of my building and let it drain down the sidewalk? Oh wait - forgot - dogs are OK - it's smokers we're talking about. Right?
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: rz
Date: September 04, 2009 09:39AM
Back in 1998, we were in a severe drought here in Florida. Wildfires were popping up all over the place. It got so bad that for several days at a time you could barely stand to be outside because of how bad the smoke smell was. I was in my car, in line at a bank's drive through teller. An older woman in front of me threw her still-lit cigarette onto the dead grass next to her car. I got out and screamed at her. I'm sure she thought I was some sort of lunatic. But that's the mentality of a lot of people who smoke. They just don't care.

I hope that in my lifetime, cigarette and cigar smoking are banned.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Wailer
Date: September 04, 2009 09:56AM
If only there were a way to punish these smokers.

Maybe a sort of tax so they pay more than for just the tobacco? Maybe we could shorten their lifespans or give them some sort of deadly disease that they or the ones they love can get? Perhaps we could just ostracize them?

Smokers are addicted. Feel bad for them. Most of them will be miserable in ther golden years not only because of the damage they are doing to their bodies, but also because of the high correlation between nicotine addiction and other mental disorders including depression (per Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point").

I hate the smell, the littering, and the entitlement attitude of smokers too, but I just buy shares of Altria and profit from their habit. Philip Morris has returned an average of 14% annually since I adopted this philosophy in 1995.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 04, 2009 09:56AM
it's smokers we're talking about. Right?

You have to STF to find the thread about people who don't take responsibility for their pets.

Or if you wait awhile, it will likely come 'round again.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: September 04, 2009 09:58AM
When people flick their still-lit ciggies out their car window, and I'm driving behind them, I think it's rude and uncouth.

When they do it while I'm on my motorcycle, I take it personally, for some reason, even though it probably isn't.

* * *

American society has become quite coarse and children are taught even fewer old-school manners than the small subset of manners we were taught in the 70's. I know, I sound like my grandparents, but the smallest modicum of common decency nowadays is at best ignored, at worst seen as "weakness."

People don't hold doors for each other, they cut each other off in traffic, bump into me and never say "excuse me," block doorways and such and give YOU the evil eye when you say "excuse me." They bring their precious little dogs everywhere (there are places it's illegal to do so), they park diagonally in parking spaces...

Complaining about one group or another's frequent faux-pas gets one pilloried worse than those committing the infractions. You're a "racist" should you suggest a young man pull his pants up, or a sexist or anti-fat for telling a woman, "maybe you shouldn't wear tight belly shirts if you have, you know, an actual belly."





I am not Ryan Seacrest, and I do not approve this message.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: September 04, 2009 10:00AM
It is a habit that spawns other habits and the belief that it is ok to litter?



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: kap
Date: September 04, 2009 10:00AM
Quote
rz
Back in 1998, we were in a severe drought here in Florida. Wildfires were popping up all over the place. It got so bad that for several days at a time you could barely stand to be outside because of how bad the smoke smell was.

It's 2009, So. CA. It's happening right now.

Regarding inconsiderate smokers, the driver of the next car threw a still lit cig butt that could have landed on my lap if it wasn't blocked by my passenger side window!



SoCal for now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2009 10:03AM by kap.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: motopsyco
Date: September 04, 2009 10:25AM
I find the hate topics and speech, that pops up on this forum too often ,disturbing.

Not to turn this thread political (if its social, its political), but in this new social climate it seems alright to tax and browbeat demographic minorities such as smokers. Under the guise of "the cost to society" or the greater good, its an oppression.

Lastly, and this is just an observation, now that Bush is out, what happened to all the anti-war protesters? Here in San Francisco it got to the point where I couldn't miss one when I flicked my cigarette butt away.

Cheers!
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: mikebw
Date: September 04, 2009 10:29AM
Quote
JPK
Think it is ok to litter their cigarette butts everywhere.
JPK

They could quit anytime, they just don't want to.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: billb
Date: September 04, 2009 10:34AM
Quote
motopsyco


Lastly, and this is just an observation, , what happened to all the anti-war protesters? Here in San Francisco it got to the point where I couldn't miss one when I flicked my cigarette butt away.

Cheers!

Move on has moved on.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: August West
Date: September 04, 2009 10:42AM
Quote
billb
Why are cigarette butts any different than all the other trash people throw out windows ?
Too many people are inconsiderate pigs , not just smokers.

Bingo
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 04, 2009 10:49AM
Just drive to the ocean and flick them there. That's where they end up eventually anyway.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: 3d
Date: September 04, 2009 11:14AM
Why do gum chewers think it is ok to spit their used gum everywhere.
Do gum chewers think this is not littering or not rude?
Disgusting gum chewers.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: billb
Date: September 04, 2009 11:21AM
Quote
vision63
Just drive to the ocean and flick them there. That's where they end up eventually anyway.

cigarette filters are made of cellulose
they are bio-degradable.

The percentage of tar and nicotine pales in comparison to the Scotts turfbuilder run-off.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: mikebw
Date: September 04, 2009 11:26AM
And it's not like the butts would really go anywhere special if people put them in the trash. I mean they would do to the dump and biodegrade there instead, so ultimately not a big deal, but as a courtesy maybe.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 04, 2009 11:37AM
I mean they would do to the dump and biodegrade there instead, so ultimately not a big deal,

So it's ok to toss them if one is reasonably sure no fire or burn will result, unless it's "on accident"?

And not all, but a lot of trash will bio-degrade... eventually. So is it ok to toss that out the window? So ultimately, is that a not a big deal as well? Is it really just a matter of degree?




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 04, 2009 11:39AM
Disgusting gum chewers.

True. Not to mention the popping.

We could make errant gum chewers lick ashtrays, and errant smokers swallow the aforementioned's gum.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: mikebw
Date: September 04, 2009 11:50AM
Quote
RAMd®d
So it's ok to toss them if one is reasonably sure no fire or burn will result, unless it's "on accident"?

And not all, but a lot of trash will bio-degrade... eventually. So is it ok to toss that out the window? So ultimately, is that a not a big deal as well? Is it really just a matter of degree?

I was merely observing that from a larger perspective the location of a cigarette butt doesn't really have an impact on how it will degrade.

Indeed it would be more convenient to toss much of our trash out the window but then if everyone did it we would have new problems to deal with. So ideally everyone will put all their trash in the appropriate receptacles, but I can't make that decision for other people. It would look decidedly "uncool" for a smoker to fully extinguish the cigarette and then put it in the trash than to casually flick it off as they go about their business.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: billb
Date: September 04, 2009 12:02PM
mmmm, appropriate receptacles
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: guitarist
Date: September 04, 2009 12:30PM
Here, let me add something....this'll cheer ya'll up....



Oh, and let me drop these off, too....they definitely belong right here.

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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: September 04, 2009 12:40PM
The filters may be may of cellulose, but some of the chemicals used to process it aren't exactly environmentally friendly. Not to mention that studies have show that it can take between 10 months and 3 years for them to degrade. Why should we have to look at this litter while it decomposes?

The other issue is that most smokers aren't fully extinguishing their butts before they toss them. Most states haven't adopted the "fire-safe" cigarette yet, so these butts become potential ignition sources. I think that throwing the butts should be an attempted arson charge instead of littering.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: guitarist
Date: September 04, 2009 12:50PM
Quote
macphanatic
I think that throwing the butts should be an attempted arson charge instead of littering.

I agree, irrational zealots and unqualified fanatics should be allowed to make laws and set policy.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Doc
Date: September 04, 2009 12:58PM
Quote
guitarist
Why aren't they wearing special arm bands to identify themselves, so I can horsewhip them in public, with the full support of onlookers?

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: August West
Date: September 04, 2009 01:01PM
Quote

The other issue is that most smokers aren't fully extinguishing their butts before they toss them.

From where did this datapoint arise ?

Quote

I think that throwing the butts should be an attempted arson charge instead of littering.

Have you really thought about this ?
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 04, 2009 01:18PM
Quote
billb
Quote
vision63
Just drive to the ocean and flick them there. That's where they end up eventually anyway.

cigarette filters are made of cellulose
they are bio-degradable.

The percentage of tar and nicotine pales in comparison to the Scotts turfbuilder run-off.

Yeah, I see them biodegrading en-massse every day in the San Francisco Bay.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: September 04, 2009 01:22PM
Quote
mikebw
They could quit anytime, they just don't want to.

"Despite the difficulty in determining which drugs are the most addictive, Dr. Jack E. Henningfield of the National Institute on Drug Abuse and Dr. Neal L. Benowitz of the University of California at San Francisco attempted to define the most addictive drugs by ranking six psychoactive substances on the five criteria they found most applicable to addiction:

1. Withdrawal - The severity of withdrawal symptoms produced by stopping the use of the drug.
2. Reinforcement - The drug's tendency to induce users to take it over and over again.
3. Tolerance - The user's need to have ever-increasing doses of the drug to get the same effect.
4. Dependence - The difficulty in quitting, or staying off the drug, usually measured by the number of users who eventually become dependent.
5. Intoxication - The degree of intoxication produced by the drug in typical use.

Based on the level of dependence, the most common measure for determining the addictiveness of a drug, the substances ranked as follows, from most to least addictive:

1. Nicotine
2. Heroin
3. Cocaine
4. Alcohol
5. Caffeine
6. Marijuana

Both alcohol and tobacco ranked near the top of the scale in many areas, with nicotine placing highest in dependence and alcohol placing highest in intoxication."

[www.drugrehabtreatment.com]

The level of "tolerance" displayed by people who frequent this forum is sometimes absolutely mind-boggling.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 04, 2009 01:45PM
Quote
August West
Quote

The other issue is that most smokers aren't fully extinguishing their butts before they toss them.

From where did this datapoint arise ?

Quote

I think that throwing the butts should be an attempted arson charge instead of littering.

Have you really thought about this ?

Well, I'll chime in and say that by observation I'll agree with Augie's contention on item #1. And it pisses me off when I'm driving behind these jerks, because my reflexes cause me to try to dodge them as if they are lit incendiary devices. I've had a couple of very near accidents for that reason.

And Item #2 is in fact the LAW in many areas in a fire watch condition. After all, would you consider throwing a small firebomb onto the roadside to be a 'polite act' ?

Just ask the LA residents what they think about lit butt tossers during fire season.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: billb
Date: September 04, 2009 02:02PM
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Why do drivers...............
Posted by: Black
Date: September 04, 2009 02:18PM
Think it is ok to leave their cars everywhere.

I don't drive, I hate the smell of cars, but do think people have the right to do this. Here in Chicago, they have banned parking just about everywhere and where it is still legal, they have taxed parking at a VERY high rate.

On the way in to work, some jag dork in front of my flicked his car out and it hit my butt.

Do drivers think this is not littering or not rude?

I would think the way drivers are getting their "rights" trampled, they would be a thoughtful and considerate as they could as to sway public opinion.

When I got off the train, I stopped at a light and there were literally thousands of cars at the stoplight in the gutter or curb area.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 04, 2009 02:30PM
Quote
Seacrest


American society has become quite coarse and children are taught even fewer old-school manners than the small subset of manners we were taught in the 70's. I know, I sound like my grandparents, but the smallest modicum of common decency nowadays is at best ignored, at worst seen as "weakness."

People don't hold doors for each other, they cut each other off in traffic, bump into me and never say "excuse me," block doorways and such and give YOU the evil eye when you say "excuse me." They bring their precious little dogs everywhere (there are places it's illegal to do so), they park diagonally in parking spaces...

Complaining about one group or another's frequent faux-pas gets one pilloried worse than those committing the infractions. You're a "racist" should you suggest a young man pull his pants up, or a sexist or anti-fat for telling a woman, "maybe you shouldn't wear tight belly shirts if you have, you know, an actual belly."

Oh, I completely agree. I was brought up (and rightly so) to think about if what I am doing may effect other people, and if so, is it a positive or negative thing?

You see it in the way people drive too. More and more drive in such a way that if you don't change your course and speed, you will hit them. They pull out, change lanes, whatever. KNOWING they don't have the right of way.

I believe it is a $1001 ticket in Washington State to throw a lit butt out of your window. Yet people still do it. How about don't do it because its the right thing to do?
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 04, 2009 03:09PM
...because the world is a smoker's ashtray.
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Buzz
Date: September 04, 2009 03:10PM
just politely ask smokers if they would like to quit in a firm, proactive way, such as, "I find your smoking horribly offensive, and it disturbs my well being and that of others around me. Now I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels this way, nor am I likely even the first person to express such a sentiment to you. So, I'm sure, deep down, you'd love nothing better than to quit smoking, would you?"

when they acknowledge they want to quit; beat what's left of the living crap out of them and tell them, and tell them you'll be happy to provide as much additional "quitting therapy" as needed, to either help them croak quicker from continuing to smoke, and getting beaten to a pulp, or provide something friendlier (and healthier) if they stop puffing away. tough love for smokers.



Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: Why do smokers...............
Posted by: Mike's Mac
Date: September 04, 2009 03:45PM
Sorry to be late to the party...

Among the many acts that may cause me to "snap", I believe that witnessing the act of throwing a cigarette butt out of a car window will be the one.

A little story - I was waiting in my car outside a grocery store. A person steps out of a car which was parked in a spot closest to the store entrance. Once the car door was closed, this person lit a cigarette and took approximately 15 steps to the door, dropping the cigarette just before entering. Not crushing out the butt, just dropping it. I got out of my car, picked up the butt and placed it in the car windshield, under the driver’s side wiper.

Even though that occurred almost 15 years ago, it is burned into my brain.
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