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| Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 12:38PM |
Hi,
Well, in reference to
[forums.macresource.com]
and
[forums.macresource.com]
here's what I ended up having to do:
-exported all my playlists (smart and regular) from my external drive iTunes library and saved all those .xml files on my desktop
-deleted everything out of my new iTunes folder (media, database files, etc.) that I had copied over, consolidated over, etc. in attempts to get this thing to work
-set the Advanced preference to point to the normal default location for an iTunes library in a fresh installation
-dragged and dropped all my media onto the open iTunes window (same thing as if you choose "Add to Library" from)...this took several hours for everything to get copied and added
-then imported all my saved playlists back into iTunes...for some reason, some of the smart playlists had the criteria changed to something that wasn't there before...very weird
-had to add a bunch of album art back as, again, for some reason, the album art didn't copy over properly when "adding to library"
All in all, this was a major pain in the butt. I'm sure other non-iTunes music managing programs probably use the same general folder/file/path structure, but there's gotta be an easier way. Ugh.
Well, in reference to
[forums.macresource.com]
and
[forums.macresource.com]
here's what I ended up having to do:
-exported all my playlists (smart and regular) from my external drive iTunes library and saved all those .xml files on my desktop
-deleted everything out of my new iTunes folder (media, database files, etc.) that I had copied over, consolidated over, etc. in attempts to get this thing to work
-set the Advanced preference to point to the normal default location for an iTunes library in a fresh installation
-dragged and dropped all my media onto the open iTunes window (same thing as if you choose "Add to Library" from)...this took several hours for everything to get copied and added
-then imported all my saved playlists back into iTunes...for some reason, some of the smart playlists had the criteria changed to something that wasn't there before...very weird
-had to add a bunch of album art back as, again, for some reason, the album art didn't copy over properly when "adding to library"
All in all, this was a major pain in the butt. I'm sure other non-iTunes music managing programs probably use the same general folder/file/path structure, but there's gotta be an easier way. Ugh.
| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 02:42PM |
I'd still like to know why some artwork cannot be changed. I'll rip a
compilation CD (songs from different artist on 1 CD) and then I'll sometimes end
up 2 different pieces of artwork for the same album and it will not let me
change it. Also I've noticed lately when I choose "get info" on a song and
I cannot change anything in the info window, choose a song from the
same album and I can change everything. I don't get it! My iTunes is
up-to-date.
Grateful11
compilation CD (songs from different artist on 1 CD) and then I'll sometimes end
up 2 different pieces of artwork for the same album and it will not let me
change it. Also I've noticed lately when I choose "get info" on a song and
I cannot change anything in the info window, choose a song from the
same album and I can change everything. I don't get it! My iTunes is
up-to-date.
Grateful11
| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 03:35PM |
I haven't any problems with iTunes yet. It's iPhoto that I dislike intensely.
| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 07:55PM |
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DaviDC.
I haven't any problems with iTunes yet. It's iPhoto that I dislike intensely.
Why?
Because it sucks.
I don't need an application to make duplicates of my photos & bury them deep within nested folders, thus creating a bloated Pictures folder.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2009 07:57PM by DaviDC..
| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 08:31PM |
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DaviDC.
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DaviDC.
I haven't any problems with iTunes yet. It's iPhoto that I dislike intensely.
Why?
Because it sucks.
I don't need an application to make duplicates of my photos & bury them deep within nested folders, thus creating a bloated Pictures folder.
Yep. Those are just a couple reasons I dislike iPhoto.
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deckeda
Versions aren't duplicates. And they could be stored on the moon and still be acessable-that's what the interface is for. Or, select the image, right-click, "Show file."
Eh, very first thing iPhoto does is make duplicates. They could be stored on the moon, but if you add them to iPhoto it will then make duplicates. Then it organizes photos in all sorts of obtuse ways.
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| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 09:47PM |
iPhoto and iTunes are database apps. The fact that they can tag songs, geo-locate photos and reduce red-eye are secondary functions. The ONLY real difference between them in this regard is that the later iPhoto versions use a package file-which of course anyone can easily get into from either the Finder or from iPhoto as I described above. But you don't have to wouldn't want to. The app is the only interface you want, same as with iTunes.
Maybe having a package file library is one of the reasons why we rarely see posts from people who have borked their photo database these days. What's going to happen when the day comes that iTunes uses a package file? People get cold feet, even if normal operation of iTunes isn't any different?
By their vary nature they are designed to be used to move files around for you. If you don't like the features the database can perform, having direct access to the files yourself isn't going to help you "do it better" in any way with that app.
********************
There are 3 folders in the package library that hold images. One's called Originals. If all you do is import, that's where it goes, sorted by folders named for the year and subfolders sorted by full date. No hocus-pocus. A duplicate isn't made.
If you make an edit, a copy goes in the Modified folder. Same intuitive, human-like, Finder-like fllepath structure. Still not a duplicate.
For thumbnails there's a 3rd folder (named "Data.noindex"
One is a regular thumbnail and one or more cropped versions might be in there if there are one or more faces are recognized. Doesn't get indexed by Spotlight, because you wouldn't want it to be.
Still, no dupes. Only versions that support the features of of the app such as non-destructive edits and more.
And if you trash an image, iPhoto will clean out all the versions from all 3 folders for you, along with the surrounding subfolders it had made for them. How on earth would doing all that by hand via the Finder a better way?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2009 09:52PM by deckeda.
Maybe having a package file library is one of the reasons why we rarely see posts from people who have borked their photo database these days. What's going to happen when the day comes that iTunes uses a package file? People get cold feet, even if normal operation of iTunes isn't any different?
By their vary nature they are designed to be used to move files around for you. If you don't like the features the database can perform, having direct access to the files yourself isn't going to help you "do it better" in any way with that app.
********************
There are 3 folders in the package library that hold images. One's called Originals. If all you do is import, that's where it goes, sorted by folders named for the year and subfolders sorted by full date. No hocus-pocus. A duplicate isn't made.
If you make an edit, a copy goes in the Modified folder. Same intuitive, human-like, Finder-like fllepath structure. Still not a duplicate.
For thumbnails there's a 3rd folder (named "Data.noindex"
One is a regular thumbnail and one or more cropped versions might be in there if there are one or more faces are recognized. Doesn't get indexed by Spotlight, because you wouldn't want it to be.Still, no dupes. Only versions that support the features of of the app such as non-destructive edits and more.
And if you trash an image, iPhoto will clean out all the versions from all 3 folders for you, along with the surrounding subfolders it had made for them. How on earth would doing all that by hand via the Finder a better way?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2009 09:52PM by deckeda.
| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 10:34PM |
I've used iPhoto extensively since version 1. I can say for an absolute fact that by default (and until recently there was no preference) iPhoto makes duplicates of the photos when you add them to iPhoto.
In any case, don't you normally do a direct download of your photos from camera to iPhoto?
Nope, never. Especially not since iPhoto removed the logical sorting methods and implemented the "cute but neutered" methods.
But you don't have to wouldn't want to. The app is the only interface you want, same as with iTunes.
The app is the only interface I'd want to organize my photos? No freaking way. That's like saying "the only way to live life is with your legs cut off, one arm missing and your face smashed in." The iPhoto interface gets more difficult to use with every version. A command line is almost an easier interface to organizing photos than iPhoto.
As far as iTunes goes, it's not the only app I use when working with the audio in the iTunes library. Mainly because some of the audio I also use in Final Cut. Fortunately the iTunes library is not a package or it would screw that up.
Only versions that support the features of of the app such as non-destructive edits and more.
If they were non-destructive edits, they wouldn't need versions.
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In any case, don't you normally do a direct download of your photos from camera to iPhoto?
Nope, never. Especially not since iPhoto removed the logical sorting methods and implemented the "cute but neutered" methods.
But you don't have to wouldn't want to. The app is the only interface you want, same as with iTunes.
The app is the only interface I'd want to organize my photos? No freaking way. That's like saying "the only way to live life is with your legs cut off, one arm missing and your face smashed in." The iPhoto interface gets more difficult to use with every version. A command line is almost an easier interface to organizing photos than iPhoto.
As far as iTunes goes, it's not the only app I use when working with the audio in the iTunes library. Mainly because some of the audio I also use in Final Cut. Fortunately the iTunes library is not a package or it would screw that up.
Only versions that support the features of of the app such as non-destructive edits and more.
If they were non-destructive edits, they wouldn't need versions.
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| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 10:34PM |
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Doc
Who makes this "iTunes 9.0.2" and why would anyone use it when iTunes 7.7 works so well?
The only reason I have iTunes 9 is because older versions don't work with the iTunes Store (which I rent movies from.)
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| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 04, 2009 11:40PM |
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Doc
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M A V I C
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Doc
Who makes this "iTunes 9.0.2" and why would anyone use it when iTunes 7.7 works so well?
The only reason I have iTunes 9 is because older versions don't work with the iTunes Store (which I rent movies from.)
iTunes 7.7 works with the iTunes store. I just added a bunch of podcasts this weekend.
Strange. When I tried to rent a movie in iTunes 8, it said I had to get 9. Maybe try renting a movie and see what it says. Should give you the error before you actually purchase.
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| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 05, 2009 02:08PM |
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deckeda
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M A V I C
I've used iPhoto extensively since version 1. I can say for an absolute fact that by default (and until recently there was no preference) iPhoto makes duplicates of the photos when you add them to iPhoto.
My post above is based on iPhoto '09's observed behavior last night. Never saw a preference setting to suggest otherwise, either. Sounds like you're confusing the altered copies it makes with duplicates. I promise you that there is only one "original" in there---any others are different in some way as previously mentioned.
I'm not confused at all. Having run 100k+ images through iPhoto, I'm pretty familiar with it.
Take a photo from the desktop (or any other folder), drag it into iPhoto. iPhoto automatically makes a duplicate when it adds it to its library. The original is still on the desktop, and the duplicate is now in the iPhoto library. This is well before making any edits which creates versions.
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M A V I C
But you don't have to wouldn't want to. The app is the only interface you want, same as with iTunes.
The app is the only interface I'd want to organize my photos? No freaking way. That's like saying "the only way to live life is with your legs cut off, one arm missing and your face smashed in." The iPhoto interface gets more difficult to use with every version. A command line is almost an easier interface to organizing photos than iPhoto.
If iPhoto didn't use a package file, and if you wanted to use iPhoto's interface, how would anything be different? It wouldn't, which was my point. Once you decide you don't want to use iPhoto, the fact that it uses a package file and creates altered copies is immaterial. Why would I care how you cook your green beans if I won't be at your house eating them anyway?
iPhoto has a limited feature set, so I don't always want to use iPhoto's interface. When iPhoto didn't use a package file, it was always a mess to sift through and the organization couldn't be altered. Plus, then you have to deal with all the different versions. That's immaterial? Hardly. It's a cluttered mess that can't be cleaned up without screwing up the iPhoto library.
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M A V I C
As far as iTunes goes, it's not the only app I use when working with the audio in the iTunes library. Mainly because some of the audio I also use in Final Cut. Fortunately the iTunes library is not a package or it would screw that up.
The iLife apps and Aperture can "see" natively into each other's libraries, package file or not, and present that content within their respective interface. If FCP can't see the iTunes library today in a similar way, wrapping the iTunes library into a package file shouldn't make it worse than it already is.
Eh, I didn't say FCP can't see the iTunes library today. I said fortunately the iTunes library is not a package so it can be seen by FCP or other apps.
Overall, to think that one app can do everything is short sighted. Often photos need some sort of organization or editing that cannot be done in iPhoto. With iPhoto's package, it blocks the many apps out there built to work with photos. This is ridiculous because of how limited iPhoto is. With every version the find new ways to make it worse and break the great features it had before.
To think that one can just use the iPhoto interface is not reasonable. iPhoto needs to allow other apps to work with the photos it organizes, without creating duplicates, without creating versions and without creating an obtuse file structure inside a package.
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| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 05, 2009 06:17PM |
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deckeda
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M A V I C
Take a photo from the desktop (or any other folder), drag it into iPhoto. iPhoto automatically makes a duplicate when it adds it to its library. The original is still on the desktop, and the duplicate is now in the iPhoto library. This is well before making any edits which creates versions.
You overlooked the Advanced tab in preferences, where it gives you the option to not "Copy items into iPhoto Library." At any rate, there are advantages for most users for iPhoto storing originals.
I already covered that in a previous post. (Scroll up if you want to see it.) Still, if that setting is checked (which it is by default) what's it do? It creates a duplicate. Or are you going to continue to argue that "it's not a duplicate, it's a version"?
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It doesn't suit my needs either, but anytime you've dug into the file structure to overcome some limitation that's a red flag to well, move on to something else, yes? Doesn't merit blanket statements of failure that obviously don't concern users of its intended audience, using it for intended purposes.
Now you're using qualifiers like "intended audience" and "intended purposes". Please, fill me in on who iPhoto 3 was marketed to and what it's intended purposes were. Chances are, you don't know. You're making an unsupported assertion that what I'm trying to do isn't something Apple has marketed iPhoto as.
Just take a look at the current iPhoto marketing statements:
iPhoto makes managing your photos as easy as taking them.
Notice how it says "your photos". It doesn't say "photos taken by someone who doesn't know what they're doing." Their audience is broad and their described intended purposes are also very broad, so that argument doesn't hold water.
There's still features within iPhoto I want to use.
Look at the statements you're making. They're so easy to disprove. For example The app is the only interface you want
No, it's not the only interface I want. Who would know the answer to that? I would.
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You're assuming that if iTunes used a package file FCP wouldn't be able to see inside of it, or that an updated version of FCP wouldn't be able to see inside of it, despite all the evidence to the contrary that Apple's other apps already display this ability. Why this FUD about package files given that it doesn't improve workflow for them NOT to be?
Hold on a second there. "an updated version of FCP..." oh, yeah, like I'm going to want to upgrade FCP just so it could access to files it could access before. As it stands, FCP cannot view inside package files. So if iTunes used a package, it couldn't see inside it. You're changing multiple variables to try and pose an argument.
There is no Uncertainty that FCP cannot view inside package files. There's no Doubt FCP cannot view inside package files. Therefore, any perceived Fear that FCP couldn't see inside package files is not FUD.
Not to to mention, Apple isn't the only software company on the planet. So just because they might release a new version of FCP that could, doesn't mean it wouldn't still hinder workflow.
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Does Apple specifically block 3rd-party apps from seeing inside package files by not making that part of the API available, or it is a coincidence that they don't release apps that see inside because they don't have a reason to?
Apple specifically uses a non-standard method of housing the files which as a result blocks other applications (even some other Apple applications) from interfacing with the files. There should be no need for an API.
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If the only thing an outside app knows how to do is present a standard import dialog, how exactly is that a limitation of iPhoto? Are you sure you're placing blame in the correct place?
The interfacing of photos in Mac OS has been the same for decades... until recent versions of iPhoto. The only thing that changed that broke workflow was iPhoto.
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Don't like complete versions kept in there because they take up hard drive space?
Nope, nothing to do with drive space.
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And then it would be RAM and CPU hungry like they are, and then it wouldn't make as much sense for its intended audience as people with low-end Macs would freak at how slow it is, and so on.
Have you used the recent versions of iPhoto much? It's probably 100x more CPU and RAM intensive than it was a couple years ago. And where do you have supporting evidence that "its intended audience as people with low-end Macs." Somehow I think you're just making that up, like some of the other statements you've obviously just made up.
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So to complain about it gobbling up HD space is to not understand that it doing so is kinda necessary in order for it to not be some other kind of app.
What? What are you talking about? If you're going to reply to this at all, do this one thing:
- Either point out where I complained about hard drive space at all
- Or admit that you just made that up
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No, it doesn't "need" to do anything Apple hasn't primarily designed it to do any more than you "need" to like using it.
Ok, you're right. It doesn't "need" anything. Just like you and I don't need to breath air or eat food (unless of course, we want to continue living.) But if they are going to address the problems that myself and others have pointed out with the program, there are those changes needed.
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Try adjusting the prefs for iPhoto to (for example) send the image straight to Photoshop as editor, or dragging an image out of the interface and onto the Photoshop dock icon to instantly share it there. Photoshop even defaults the Save location back into the original labyrinth in the package file. Still need to dig in there yourself?
Wait, are you now admitting that iPhoto does make a duplicate? Are you also admitting that this preference hasn't been there very long?
Yes, ok. So uncheck that. Great. Yes, I can edit individual images in PS and keep them in iPhoto. But for everything else I need to do (sort photos into folders, batch rename, create a local HTML gallery...) I would still need to dig into the package.
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| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 05, 2009 11:30PM |
I still think iPhoto sucks & I will forever think iPhoto sucks.
It sucks, I say!
Sucks sucks sucks!
Yes, I feel that strongly about it. Being pull out of Steve Job's ass doesn't necessarily make it or anything else a great application.
It sucks, I say!
Sucks sucks sucks!
Yes, I feel that strongly about it. Being pull out of Steve Job's ass doesn't necessarily make it or anything else a great application.
| Re: Oh iTunes, how I dislike thee, let me count the ways Date: November 05, 2009 11:37PM |
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But for everything else I need to do (sort photos into folders
Why? (You can copy straight from iPhoto to a target container by drag-and-drop.)
Wouldn't that create a duplicate? Plus, copying a few thousand pictures at a time is kinda brutal in iPhoto.
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batch rename
iPhoto has a built-in batch renaming function. (It may not meet all your batch renaming needs.)
I have to admit I didn't get iPhoto '09 until recently. Does it allow me to sort files by date created (not just date imported), then do a batch rename similar to how Bridge works? (That's what I currently use for batch renaming.)
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create a local HTML gallery...) I would still need to dig into the package.
...or just use an application like iWeb or Galerie. No digging required.
The capabilities I've seen in iWeb seem fairly limited. What I end up having is a dozen or so sub galleries, all within a navigation. Each gallery can have anywhere between 100 and 4000 photos. I have a custom web gallery I built for Photoshop that I currently use. It uses thickbox to show large size images. There is also a main landing page with a video on it. Galerie seems to use HTML, so I could probably build that in. Any idea how quick it is? Is it multi-core aware?
Looking at the galerie templates, none of those would be remotely suitable.
Thanks for the info. I am always looking for better ways to accomplish these tasks. I just find when Apple does things like encapsulate the photos in a package it inhibits workflow with other applications.
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