advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Black
Date: February 24, 2010 05:44PM
[www.postchronicle.com]

Sad situation; there must be a few good or even great teachers in the mix.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Dennis R
Date: February 24, 2010 06:00PM
I heard that they could rehire up to half of them.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Doc
Date: February 24, 2010 06:00PM
Wow!

From that story, there may be a thousand people living in Rhode Island!

I wonder if they have to stand shoulder-to-shoulder or if there's room for some to sit.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: billb
Date: February 24, 2010 06:04PM
federal mandate vs school administration vs union
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: MikeF
Date: February 24, 2010 06:15PM
Obviously, they could have used a teacher for the story title:
"Board Fires All Teacers At Rhode Island Highschool"
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Racer X
Date: February 24, 2010 06:30PM
Wow, the teachers wanted extra pay for the extra hours to catch the students up because the teachers presumably were doing their jobs poorly in the first place?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: billb
Date: February 24, 2010 06:40PM
Quote
Racer X
Wow, the teachers wanted extra pay for the extra hours to catch the students up because the teachers presumably were doing their jobs poorly in the first place?
Triple pay to boot - $90.00/hr.

I'd be careful to add administrations / trustees and unions into that cauldron of reasons for poor performance.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: February 24, 2010 06:41PM
I don't know if we should presume that the teachers were doing their jobs poorly. The article says that for more than half the students English is a second language. In my own area, many of the ESL students come directly from Mexico, often with skills below a 6th grade level, yet because of their age they are put in a high school class.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: February 24, 2010 06:52PM
Quote
zeppo2
I don't know if we should presume that the teachers were doing their jobs poorly. The article says that for more than half the students English is a second language. In my own area, many of the ESL students come directly from Mexico, often with skills below a 6th grade level, yet because of their age they are put in a high school class.

To send it off to the political side... If they want citizenship they should have to learn English first and pass a standardized test. THEN they should be entitled to the finest education we can provide them(in English). I think a lot of money is wasted keeping kids who don't understand what they are being taught in normal classes. You need to learn the language of the instruction before you can actually grasp any concepts.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 24, 2010 06:55PM
Similar occurrence at one of the biggest high schools in L.A.:

[www.latimes.com]
[www.latimes.com]



It is what it is.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Racer X
Date: February 24, 2010 07:00PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
zeppo2
I don't know if we should presume that the teachers were doing their jobs poorly. The article says that for more than half the students English is a second language. In my own area, many of the ESL students come directly from Mexico, often with skills below a 6th grade level, yet because of their age they are put in a high school class.

To send it off to the political side... If they want citizenship they should have to learn English first and pass a standardized test. THEN they should be entitled to the finest education we can provide them(in English). I think a lot of money is wasted keeping kids who don't understand what they are being taught in normal classes. You need to learn the language of the instruction before you can actually grasp any concepts.

very very true. My step-father is a middle school teacher in Phoenix.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: comaplate
Date: February 24, 2010 07:11PM
I'm sure the band teacher is thrilled they got canned because of standardized testing scores in math and English.

I'm not a big fan of the way No Child Left Behind bases everything on test scores. For poor-performing districts, the tests establish a baseline for how poor-performing the districts are. It's a little bit like giving a diabetes test to a known diabetic. Is anyone surprised when the results come back and tell the patient he's a diabetic?

NCLB is long on draconian penalties, and short on fixing the root of the problem. As noted in the article, many of the students at that school don't speak English as a first language. Anyone surprised they performed poorly in a standardized test written in English -- and as many of have experienced, tests are written in a highly academic manner that can be different from informal conversation (so much so that many schools spend a great deal of time on test prep to have the students be able to understand just what the question is asking.

Don't even get me started on how NCLB is actually serving to dumb down education in other districts. There are no incentives or challenges for schools to have their kids performing at the highest level. If your kid is really smart and tests at the highest "proficient with distinction" level, it's a nice pat on the back, but all NCLB cares about whether you're "failing" or "not failing".

Alternatively, instead of hiring the teachers to tutor after school, there's always the novel concept that parents have a role in their childrens' education...


Stepping off the soapbox for a minute, I would say that based on my quick read of the article and what I've seen on the local news, this sounds more like a labor relations/negotiation tactic than an attempt to fix the ills of the schools.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: kj
Date: February 24, 2010 07:53PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
zeppo2
I don't know if we should presume that the teachers were doing their jobs poorly. The article says that for more than half the students English is a second language. In my own area, many of the ESL students come directly from Mexico, often with skills below a 6th grade level, yet because of their age they are put in a high school class.

To send it off to the political side... If they want citizenship they should have to learn English first and pass a standardized test. THEN they should be entitled to the finest education we can provide them(in English). I think a lot of money is wasted keeping kids who don't understand what they are being taught in normal classes. You need to learn the language of the instruction before you can actually grasp any concepts.

Nah, they should just hire teachers from Mexico, you Xenophobe winking smiley . kj.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: February 24, 2010 08:11PM
Quote
kj

Nah, they should just hire teachers from Mexico, you Xenophobe winking smiley . kj.

Maybe they should go back to Mexico if they want to learn in spanish smiling smiley I have zero problem with legal immigration and integration with the community.

Nothing pisses me off more than people who come here(legally or not) and refuse to integrate with the customs and policies of the area.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 24, 2010 08:15PM
Teachers, being on the front lines, are typically the only ones who have a correct bead on the situation. Sounds like they recognized more help was needed for these kids, stepped up to offer it (and be compensated,) and instead got canned.

I wish the District (and the kids) well—they'll need luck now, AND teachers.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Black
Date: February 24, 2010 08:25PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
kj

Nah, they should just hire teachers from Mexico, you Xenophobe winking smiley . kj.

Maybe they should go back to Mexico if they want to learn in spanish smiling smiley I have zero problem with legal immigration and integration with the community.

Nothing pisses me off more than people who come here(legally or not) and refuse to integrate with the customs and policies of the area.

Tell me about it! I mean, when's the last time you saw anyone plant a fish head with a corn kernel for fertilizer? Or make themselves some nice clothing out of a dear hide? Or use a bow and arrow for hunting, for that matter? And try to get these folks to don a proper head dress before going out in public! Sad, it is . . .




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2010 08:26PM by Black.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: February 24, 2010 08:28PM
My fathers maternal grandmother (my great-grandmother), according to stories, would regularly smack her kids upside the head for speaking Norwegian at home...
She never did master English, but by god, she made damn sure her kids all spoke English when they were in North Dakota! They were in AMERICAN now, and were going to speak ENGLISH!



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 24, 2010 08:35PM
Quote
Racer X
Wow, the teachers wanted extra pay for the extra hours to catch the students up because the teachers presumably were doing their jobs poorly in the first place?

exactly! they should get the teachers from the local prep school - then the students would ALL go to college!



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Ammo
Date: February 24, 2010 08:56PM
Quote
deckeda
Teachers, being on the front lines, are typically the only ones who have a correct bead on the situation. Sounds like they recognized more help was needed for these kids, stepped up to offer it (and be compensated,) and instead got canned.

I wish the District (and the kids) well—they'll need luck now, AND teachers.

This kind of reflection requires too much effort. I think I'll just blame the teachers - it's easier!;)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Don C
Date: February 24, 2010 09:07PM
The push by NCLB is to assess student and school performance using norm referenced tests. These are tests which are designed to compare student performance to other student performance. By definition, half of the students are below average and in the eyes of many parents and legislators are therefore failures. So you have defined half of all kids as failing. Guess which kids typically get the good labels and which kids typically get the bad labels.

In the state where I worked, immigrant students who have been in country (not necessarily under instruction) for two years are required to be as verbally and conceptually equal to their "resident" peers.

Road to the top isn't any better.

How many of us here would be willing to declare our professional worth by our relative standing on a multiple choice test? OOK, it is true that most tests now include "constructed responses" which in my day were called short answer questions, but the premise is the same.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 24, 2010 09:17PM
This is not a political issue - there is no doubt our public education system is failing many students.

In baltimore, the union was the biggest stumbling block to any education reform.

Here in Minnesota, the union is limbering up to try to block ANY changes.

All I know is that as a fully tenured professor at a Big Ten school, being tenured = being salaried = full professional development expectations > 40 hour a week job.

If I were 'tenured' as a teacher, none of those statements I just made seem to apply.

I know many highly committed teachers; but ALL of them, when the clock gets to 5 pm, walk out the door.

There is a real need for culture reform in education.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 24, 2010 10:14PM
Also in MN, our school district has full immersion Spanish and Mandarin classes beginning in kindergarten at one elementary school to teach native English speakers. These programs have a long waiting list. These programs will progress into the middle school as the kids reach that age and likely into the high school.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 24, 2010 11:03PM
Quote
sekker
I know many highly committed teachers; but ALL of them, when the clock gets to 5 pm, walk out the door.

if they have been there since 7am, do you blame them?

I'm not sure people really want to pay the teachers in the first place, so how about we fire them all and hire them back at a lower salary and so what if they don't last more than a few years, there's more teachers out there!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Black
Date: February 24, 2010 11:09PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
sekker
I know many highly committed teachers; but ALL of them, when the clock gets to 5 pm, walk out the door.

if they have been there since 7am, do you blame them?

I'm not sure people really want to pay the teachers in the first place, so how about we fire them all and hire them back at a lower salary and so what if they don't last more than a few years, there's more teachers out there!

I see where this is going. Don't forget you could get them even cheaper if you relax the qualifications and eliminate background checks.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: testcase
Date: February 25, 2010 12:17AM
Discover Rhode Island....




best done at low tide....




search smiley
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: MysteryGuest
Date: February 25, 2010 02:33AM
Quote
sekker
I know many highly committed teachers; but ALL of them, when the clock gets to 5 pm, walk out the door.

It's a stressful job teaching high school. Try it sometime. And what's wrong with leaving when they stop paying you? They may be teachers, but they are also people who need rest, food, sleep, exercise, time to clean house and read a book for pleasure, mothers and fathers with families and responsibilities of their own.

Additionally, among the teachers I've known, many, very many, have given more than their share, both during working hours and afterward.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 02:36AM by MysteryGuest.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 25, 2010 03:57AM
Quote
Paul F.
My fathers maternal grandmother (my great-grandmother), according to stories, would regularly smack her kids upside the head for speaking Norwegian at home...
She never did master English, but by god, she made damn sure her kids all spoke English when they were in North Dakota!

That's a shame. My daughter is bilingual. She speaks French at school and with her friends and speaks English at home. No problems with two languages for young children. She gets annoyed when I or her mom speak French because, well, we suck at it.



Quote

They were in AMERICAN now, and were going to speak ENGLISH!

Apparently, more corporal punishment is needed.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: kap
Date: February 25, 2010 05:27AM
Quote
C(-)ris
You need to learn the language of the instruction before you can actually grasp any concepts.

Except math smiling smiley



SoCal for now.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: kap
Date: February 25, 2010 06:06AM
Quote
Lux Interior

No problems with two languages for young children.
agree smiley agree smiley agree smiley

Many of our friends' children are fluent in more than one languages. I believe it's the parents' sole responsibility to pass on their languages, cultures, etc. The Chinese Americans and Vietnamese Americans have being doing it right all along: their children attend private Chinese or Vietnamese schools after school and/or on the weekend.



SoCal for now.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 25, 2010 07:54AM
Quote
sekker
This is not a political issue - there is no doubt our public education system is failing many students.

In baltimore, the union was the biggest stumbling block to any education reform.

Here in Minnesota, the union is limbering up to try to block ANY changes.

All I know is that as a fully tenured professor at a Big Ten school, being tenured = being salaried = full professional development expectations > 40 hour a week job.

If I were 'tenured' as a teacher, none of those statements I just made seem to apply.

I know many highly committed teachers; but ALL of them, when the clock gets to 5 pm, walk out the door.

There is a real need for culture reform in education.

You're correct that it's not a political issue insofar as the alternative (private education) is even less equipped to deal with the public.

Given that unions represent educators who more often than not express a real desire to educate, and then make noise when they aren't equipped to adequately do so, it's highly unlikely that "the union" is a roadblock in any real sense of the word.

More likely is that outsiders like you don't have a clue what it takes to educate a kid well, and so when the professional speaks up and tells you, you react with indignation and the expectation that "any kid" should be able to be taught "by anyone" under "any circumstances." Sorry prof, but teaching in a college atmosphere doesn't qualify you to speak about the secondary education experience.

Your comment about knowing many committed teachers is in direct conflict with your assertion about unions. You can't separate them like that, it's illogical and sounds as if driven by some inherent idea that there probably shouldn't "need" to be a union at all. << Which may be true, but is beside the point.

… but ALL of them, when the clock gets to 5 pm, walk out the door.

As others have pointed out, that's a silly comment for obvious reasons.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: TLB
Date: February 25, 2010 08:12AM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
Paul F.
My fathers maternal grandmother (my great-grandmother), according to stories, would regularly smack her kids upside the head for speaking Norwegian at home...
She never did master English, but by god, she made damn sure her kids all spoke English when they were in North Dakota!

That's a shame. My daughter is bilingual. She speaks French at school and with her friends and speaks English at home. No problems with two languages for young children. She gets annoyed when I or her mom speak French because, well, we suck at it.

I think Paul F. experience was quite common if not the norm for immigrants to the US from the late 1800's through the 1950's. I'm second generation and my grandparents came from Europe. My parents were raised in strictly English speaking households, in fact my grandparents never spoke their native tongue among themselves so the kids couldn't even pick it up on the sly. They were firm believers in the idea that being American meant leaving behind the old country. I'm totally ignorant of my family's culture because they refused to answer any questions because I was "an American." My kids have a lot of friends among more recent immigrants who ask about our country of origin. They don't understand that we have nothing to share and my kids don't like that they have no link to their past.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Cary
Date: February 25, 2010 08:16AM
"There is about 850 children going to Central Falls High. Half of the students are failing every subject reportedly. English is the second language for more than half the students, most of the students are Hispanic.

Teachers were willing to reform but the problem started with teachers wanting compensation for extra hours of work trying to help children."

No comments on the atrocious use of the English language by the author of the story, Jack Ryan? Perhaps he attended Central Hills High?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: decay
Date: February 25, 2010 10:05AM
you can't force a kid to learn if they don't want to.

see also: horse, water, drink.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 25, 2010 10:43AM
Quote
Cary
"There is about 850 children going to Central Falls High. Half of the students are failing every subject reportedly. English is the second language for more than half the students, most of the students are Hispanic.

Teachers were willing to reform but the problem started with teachers wanting compensation for extra hours of work trying to help children."

No comments on the atrocious use of the English language by the author of the story, Jack Ryan? Perhaps he attended Central Hills High?

I think it was written in Spanish and then run through an internet translator.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: billb
Date: February 25, 2010 12:09PM
The parents who have even less education than the kids are supposed to be teaching them at home ?
Really ?

The inner city schools need the extra funding to support the ESL programs that used to work in the late 70s until they all got top heavy with administration and bureaucrats. The kids actually ended up getting taught .

Throw drugs, incest, neglect, poverty into the mix and you're spending 32 hours a week filling out forms and not teaching.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Rhode Island High School fires every teacher
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 25, 2010 12:11PM
Especially if the parents don't care.

Around here it used to be "little Billy's working at the textile mill after this semester, so why bother?"

Quote
decay
you can't force a kid to learn if they don't want to.

see also: horse, water, drink.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 12:12PM by Bill in NC.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 200
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020