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Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 12, 2011 07:28PM
After seeing this article, I was just curious to get some individual opinions on this - why are you against improved energy efficiency standards for light bulbs?

To me, it seems like a no-brainer.
The savings over the lifetime of the bulbs are immense (compared to their initial cost) and they reduce our need to produce energy - all good things for the country as a whole.

So - what are the counter arguments?
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Grace62
Date: July 12, 2011 07:42PM
It's over. Common sense won out over single-issue nuttiness in the Republican house. The standards law does not ban incandescent bulbs, it just encourages manufacturers to make more energy efficient bulbs. That apparently was terrifying to some Republicans. Perhaps one you Republicans can explain it to us.


UPDATE 6:55 p.m.: House lawmakers on Tuesday night rejected a bill to repeal light bulb efficiency standards that conservatives have argued amount to an assault on personal freedom.

The Better Use of Light Bulbs Act failed to garner the two-thirds majority needed for passage. The vote was 233-193.

“Fortunately, the Republican attempt to repeal minimum efficiency standards for light bulbs failed," said Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.), the ranking member of the Natural Resources Committee and a senior member of the Energy and Commerce Committee, in a statement after the vote. "But it is a reflection of how radical the House Republican majority has become that a bipartisan, common-sense provision supported by both industry and environmentalists was threatened with repeal, and that the House wasted its time on such a matter when we have much more important work to do to create jobs and reduce the deficit."
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 12, 2011 07:49PM
the whole thing just FEELS repressive!!



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 12, 2011 08:00PM
Quote
Grace62
..."But it is a reflection of how radical the House Republican majority has become that a bipartisan, common-sense provision supported by both industry and environmentalists was threatened with repeal, and that the House wasted its time on such a matter when we have much more important work to do to create jobs and reduce the deficit."

agree smiley


Thanks for the quote, Grace62 -
Hmm...looks like the Bill's author is from Texas - that explains HIS motivations (I'm making the assumption that he is in the pocket of energy producers) - but who are the individuals out there against having efficiency standards for light bulbs - I know you're out there, I'd like to hear your side of the story, in your own words, not some reporter's spin...

Also, "Better Use of Light Bulbs"?!!?? I never did like how politicians of all stripes give their legislation names that seem like they were dreamed up by either an ad agency or Pravda - that is, no where near reflective of what they actually do.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: July 12, 2011 08:03PM
I'm not against it at all. And I like my CFLs. I just want certain specialty incandescents to stay available (like my big fat Xmas bulbs and colored accent bulbs).

My only problem with CFLs is using them in my dimmable fixtures, and THESE look like just the thing.



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 12, 2011 08:27PM
Geez, the conservatives or more accurately the right wing are in a constant state of anger regardless of who is in the White House or who controls Congress. I've never known a group of people who so embraced a permanent state of pissed-offedness as the desired way to go through life.



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: July 12, 2011 08:39PM
Quote
SDGuy


To me, it seems like a no-brainer.

Good for you but allow me to make my own decisions, will ya?


Quote
SDGuy

The savings over the lifetime of the bulbs are immense (compared to their initial cost) and they reduce our need to produce energy - all good things for the country as a whole.

Ah, the greater good argument. So much tyranny has been foisted upon people under this banner. Can you please stop saving me from myself? Besides, this can't be the only thing you want to take away from me. What is next?



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Greg
Date: July 12, 2011 08:48PM
Is this particular thing important, or is it the principle?
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 12, 2011 08:54PM
I'm telling you: they simply love to piss and moan.



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: john dough
Date: July 12, 2011 09:07PM
Quote
Dakota
Good for you but allow me to make my own decisions, will ya?

So you agree that women should have the right to make decisions on what they want to do with their bodies or for adults to marry their partners of the same sex? The GOP wants to have the right to their own decisions as long as they agree with them.

Full of nonsense as usual.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: davester
Date: July 12, 2011 09:09PM
More curious than the fact that they like to piss and moan about things for which there is no good counterargument (except selling more coal) is that the piss and moan-ers make up pseudofacts to explain themselves (pseudofacts like "they're going to ban incandescent lightbulbs).



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: neophyte
Date: July 12, 2011 09:13PM
" The savings over the lifetime of the bulbs are immense". Not for me. My electricity surges and dims during storms. I have replaced about 10 CFLs in the last six months. They don't last nearly as long as advertised. My incandescents have been fine. I'm all for energy efficiency, but this is going to cost me big time compared to the savings in electricity costs.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 12, 2011 09:52PM
Quote
neophyte
" The savings over the lifetime of the bulbs are immense". Not for me. My electricity surges and dims during storms. I have replaced about 10 CFLs in the last six months. They don't last nearly as long as advertised. My incandescents have been fine. I'm all for energy efficiency, but this is going to cost me big time compared to the savings in electricity costs.

uh.....you can still buy your incandescence



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: July 12, 2011 10:00PM
I love not having to change the bulb in the hallway over the stairs-- once every five years is plenty of that experience for me. I have a CFL in the basement that is on full time. I haven't changed it in seven years. I love CFLs, and they are both improving and getting cheaper. I can completely understand why the right wing has gone bonkers over them. CFLs are sensible.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 12, 2011 10:24PM
If there are plenty of cheap incandescents that meet the new standards and are easily obtained from local stores and if cheap, bright LEDs make it to market in time then I'm fine with it.

If it substantially drives up the cost of replacement bulbs or if I have to mail-order bulbs to get my hands on anything decent or if I'm stuck using CFLs as the result of the law then I will gladly sign a petition for its revocation.

I hear an annoying hum from CFL bulbs, in my experience they do not last 1/100th as long as advertised, even the ones that are promoted as dimmable don't work in my dimming-fixtures, the light from those bulbs gives me headaches, the risk of mercury exposure from broken bulbs worries me and properly disposing of them when they burn out is a royal PITA.

So far, I've heard and read a lot of promises about incandescents that meet the 2012 standards, but have yet to see any promoted as such in stores. I'll feel much better about the law when I see packaging on "good" bulbs that shows they'll be around next year.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: July 12, 2011 10:35PM
The same people who had people tear down their asbestos sidings for no good reason have no trouble having gobs of mercury scattered all over the house. Why? Because the party says so.

And no, they don't last. I did go with cfls for my recessed lighting. THey all burnt out within a year. Besides, why do I have to justify how I want to spend my money? what part of I DON'T WANT IT don't you understand? They don't call some of you Stalinist for no reason.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Greg
Date: July 12, 2011 11:02PM
[en.wikipedia.org]
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: July 12, 2011 11:17PM
Exactly. Do you know how many people have died for the "good of the society"?



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Greg
Date: July 12, 2011 11:19PM
Quite a few. Therefore...?
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 12, 2011 11:22PM
Dakota can't figure out the difference between using an energy efficient bulb and KILLING SOMEBODY.



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: July 12, 2011 11:24PM
It is a only a matter of degree. In the end the society will benefit, right?



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 13, 2011 02:17AM
Quote
mattkime

uh.....you can still buy your incandescence

LA LA LA LA!!!!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!! LA LA LA LA!!!!
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 13, 2011 02:31AM
Quote
SDGuy
what are the counter arguments?


Because socialism! Al Gore!

Honestly, that seems to be at the heart of some people's objection.

Some more reasonable (and I mean that relative to the above) arguments:
  • They are too expensive.
  • They contain mercury* (this argument often takes the form of "They require a hazmat team to come clean your house if you break one!" )
  • They don't last as long as they claim.
  • They don't give off as warm a light as incandescent light.
  • They don't work with dimmers.
  • They aren't as efficient as LEDs (a form of "they are not a perfect solution, so they aren't worth the effort)

Of course, the whole thing is moot because incandescent bulbs are not being banned.

*The funny thing about this is that most people have had fluorescent lights and their accompanying mercury in their homes for decades. They just don't equate these old fluorescent tubes with CFLs.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 13, 2011 07:32AM
Quote
Dakota
It is a only a matter of degree. In the end the society will benefit, right?

When they came for my asbestos, I stood aside.
But they will pry my lightbulbs from my cold, dead hands ?

Oh man....

You must have missed the Electric Motor efficiency standards increase back in 1996. That one was pushed by the evil Federal Government and administered by the NEMA... an industry group.

Electric motors use approx. 1/3 to 1/2 of all the electricity generated in the US. That change saw a huge increase in energy efficiency.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 13, 2011 07:45AM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
Dakota
It is a only a matter of degree. In the end the society will benefit, right?

When they came for my asbestos, I stood aside.
But they will pry my lightbulbs from my cold, dead hands ?

Oh man....

You must have missed the Electric Motor efficiency standards increase back in 1996. That one was pushed by the evil Federal Government and administered by the NEMA... an industry group.

Electric motors use approx. 1/3 to 1/2 of all the electricity generated in the US. That change saw a huge increase in energy efficiency.

I still prefer the older, inefficient models!



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: July 13, 2011 08:40AM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
Dakota
It is a only a matter of degree. In the end the society will benefit, right?

When they came for my asbestos, I stood aside.
But they will pry my lightbulbs from my cold, dead hands ?

Oh man....

You must have missed the Electric Motor efficiency standards increase back in 1996. That one was pushed by the evil Federal Government and administered by the NEMA... an industry group.

Electric motors use approx. 1/3 to 1/2 of all the electricity generated in the US. That change saw a huge increase in energy efficiency.

Yeah I remember. All my guests noticed that I had replaced all my electric motors in the house. Get a grip, will ya?



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 13, 2011 08:42AM
Dakota-
I strongly recommend LED bulbs for your recessed lights. generic CFL's are not rated for enclosed lights.. the transformer overheats. That's why they croaked. It's all in the specs.. There ARE CFL bulbs that are spec'd for enclosed cans.. they have more robust ballasts.

We put LED's in ours. They rock. Especially in the summer when I don't worry about waste heat like I did with incandescent. Every light fixture was an Easy-Bake oven.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: July 13, 2011 08:43AM
What is the color like? I don't want to feel I am sitting in a parking lot.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 13, 2011 08:51AM
I still have some CFL that were put in in 1999.
Shorter life does seem to go hand in hand with lower costs though.



Some of the same people who championed against any sort of mandate back then still are championing for no mandate today.
Some people sure are into that whole Freedom of Choice thing.
They're taking your light bulbs away today, tomorrow will be your abortions.


We need a better energy policy then a freakin' light bulb mandate.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: July 13, 2011 08:56AM
Screw you all and your fancy electricfied lamps, I'm burning kerosene lamps and you can't stop me!

I must admit that relighting the one in the fridge every time I open the door is a bit of a drag though.



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 13, 2011 08:59AM
the bulbs in my living room have lasted about 8 years. but they weren't cheap....unless you consider the electricity savings



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Pops
Date: July 13, 2011 08:59AM
Quote
mattkime
I still prefer the older, inefficient models!
Don't worry. He's posted again right after you. His wattage is so dim, that I put him on ignore months ago.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: July 13, 2011 09:21AM
You did, huh? It must not be working. Check your settings.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: July 13, 2011 12:16PM
Quote
lafinfil
Screw you all and your fancy electricfied lamps, I'm burning kerosene lamps and you can't stop me!

I must admit that relighting the one in the fridge every time I open the door is a bit of a drag though.

Isn't your fridge one of them new-fangled Diesel models?



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: July 13, 2011 02:00PM
Quote
Uncle Wig
Quote
lafinfil
Screw you all and your fancy electricfied lamps, I'm burning kerosene lamps and you can't stop me!

I must admit that relighting the one in the fridge every time I open the door is a bit of a drag though.

Isn't your fridge one of them new-fangled Diesel models?

Hell no ! It's a real ice box ... with ice and stuff.

As the ice melts it turns a tiny generator that provides power for



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 13, 2011 02:01PM
lol



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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: July 13, 2011 02:02PM
Quote
lafinfil
Quote
Uncle Wig
Quote
lafinfil
Screw you all and your fancy electricfied lamps, I'm burning kerosene lamps and you can't stop me!

I must admit that relighting the one in the fridge every time I open the door is a bit of a drag though.

Isn't your fridge one of them new-fangled Diesel models?

Hell no ! It's a real ice box ... with ice and stuff.

As the ice melts it turns a tiny generator that provides power for


for my computer!


(sorry - had to melt some more ice to finish this post)







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2011 02:03PM by lafinfil.
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Re: Just wondering - who here is against the 2007 light bulb efficiency standards, and why?
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: July 15, 2011 04:17PM
Quote
john dough
The GOP wants to have the right to their own decisions as long as they agree with them.

Full of nonsense as usual.

Insert "Democrats" in place of "GOP" and it's still the same equation.

Both parties have forgotten they represent "Americans" not this party system.
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