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UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 31, 2011 09:52AM
[www.npr.org]

Whaaa ? The closest parallel I can think of would involve the US's Department of Housing and Urban Development 'recognizing' Monte Carlo as a 'State'.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Grace62
Date: October 31, 2011 10:36AM
I think it's fine. So they upset the US and Israel. Big whoop.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Spock
Date: October 31, 2011 11:00AM
Quote
cbelt3
[www.npr.org]

Whaaa ? The closest parallel I can think of would involve the US's Department of Housing and Urban Development 'recognizing' Monte Carlo as a 'State'.

Monte Carlo is a 'State', a sovereign city state.



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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 31, 2011 11:11AM
Quote
Grace62
I think it's fine. So they upset the US and Israel. Big whoop.

Well, for UNESCO, the 'big whoop' would be losing U.S. funding. Federal law prohibits American financial support of U.N. organizations that recognize the state of Palestine. I think we provide about 20% of UNESCO's budget...



rj
AKA
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 31, 2011 11:14AM
Quote
Spock
Quote
cbelt3
[www.npr.org]

Whaaa ? The closest parallel I can think of would involve the US's Department of Housing and Urban Development 'recognizing' Monte Carlo as a 'State'.

Monte Carlo is a 'State', a sovereign city state.

I meant a state of the Union.


Keep in mind, this is a UN Agency recognizing Palestine as a UN member. When the UN membership has NOT. Yes, due to a Security Council Veto. And yes, the end result will be UNSESCO's good works being suspended by their political activism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 11:16AM by cbelt3.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Grace62
Date: October 31, 2011 11:17AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Grace62
I think it's fine. So they upset the US and Israel. Big whoop.

Well, for UNESCO, the 'big whoop' would be losing U.S. funding. Federal law prohibits American financial support of U.N. organizations that recognize the state of Palestine. I think we provide about 20% of UNESCO's budget...


Yes, the US is quite fond of using its great wealth to bully people. Might not work this time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 11:18AM by Grace62.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 31, 2011 11:19AM
What cbelt3 said. U.S. wealth won't stop UNESCO from admitting Palestine, but its loss will stop the preservation of World Heritage sites.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 31, 2011 11:31AM
Personally, I think it's past time the UN redressed the mistake it made when it created Israel in 1948, and neglected to remember that there were people living there already.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Grace62
Date: October 31, 2011 11:43AM
"UNESCO’s mission is to contribute to the building of peace, the eradication of poverty, sustainable development and intercultural dialogue through education, the sciences, culture, communication and information."

The Executive Board of UNESCO knew exactly what they were doing when they recommended admission of Palestine as a full member, not just an adjunct member as they've been in the past.
I think this move is 100% in keeping with UNESCO's mission. Good for them for not bowing to US and European pressure.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 31, 2011 11:56AM
Quote
Grace62
"UNESCO’s mission is to contribute to the building of peace, the eradication of poverty, sustainable development and intercultural dialogue through education, the sciences, culture, communication and information."

The Executive Board of UNESCO knew exactly what they were doing when they recommended admission of Palestine as a full member, not just an adjunct member as they've been in the past.
I think this move is 100% in keeping with UNESCO's mission. Good for them for not bowing to US and European pressure.

Yes, it's quite clear that you approve. smiling smiley

It's still going to have material consequences.

I'm not taking a position pro- or con-. Just fleshing out the picture.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Grace62
Date: October 31, 2011 12:02PM
One of the sites under Palestinian control is the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, which many view as the birthplace of Jesus. It's this site that may in fact lead even a Republican, pro-Israel Congress to be hesitant to take away the money that would help preserve this site and make it a UNESCO World Heritage Site. They've made such exceptions in the past.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 31, 2011 12:16PM
Quote
Grace62
One of the sites under Palestinian control is the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, which many view as the birthplace of Jesus. It's this site that may in fact lead even a Republican, pro-Israel Congress to be hesitant to take away the money that would help preserve this site and make it a UNESCO World Heritage Site. They've made such exceptions in the past.

Not if they think that UNESCO is going to use its preservation as leverage against Israel. Bethlehem is a hotspot; Christian Arabs there are rapidly diminishing.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: neophyte
Date: October 31, 2011 12:19PM
cbelt - didn't the UN originally know that that two peoples lived in the region, and created two states accordingly? And didn't Jewish leaders accept the UN proposal, whereas Arab leaders rejected it and attacked along the borders after the UN vote?

UN Partition.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: SteveO
Date: October 31, 2011 12:35PM
I think Palestine being a full-fledged nation with full recognition will ultimately help with the peace process. Saying that they shouldn't be yet, that "more time is needed," imho, is akin to saying the civil rights laws and other societal civil rights changes of the '60s were enacted too soon.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 31, 2011 12:39PM
Edited for shooting off my mouth.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2011 12:40PM by rjmacs.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: October 31, 2011 01:59PM
Quote
cbelt3
Personally, I think it's past time the UN redressed the mistake it made when it created Israel in 1948, and neglected to remember that there were people living there already.

Well said cbelt...

Neophyte, I think the problem is that regardless of the people living there (and as I understood it was overwhelmingly Palestininian), for most practical purposes the borders of present day Israel was known as Palestine up until the UN action.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Black
Date: October 31, 2011 07:01PM
Quote
cbelt3
Personally, I think it's past time the UN redressed the mistake it made when it created Israel in 1948, and neglected to remember that there were people living there already.

What would that redressing look like?




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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: RgrF
Date: October 31, 2011 07:46PM
Those who create nations have no say about the eventual course those created nations may take, witness Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Bangladesh and India.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: PeterB
Date: November 01, 2011 11:18PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
cbelt3
Personally, I think it's past time the UN redressed the mistake it made when it created Israel in 1948, and neglected to remember that there were people living there already.

Well said cbelt...

Neophyte, I think the problem is that regardless of the people living there (and as I understood it was overwhelmingly Palestininian), for most practical purposes the borders of present day Israel was known as Palestine up until the UN action.

The problem with this line of thinking is-- exactly where was the Jewish homeland supposed to be? More or less, everyone said "not in my backyard", and the situation was unprecedented post-WWII, with a horrible atrocity having been committed against a particular ethnic group.

If the Jews had been given, say, Bavaria, we might not have this situation right now-- but we might have had a host of different problems instead. And that particular solution does not also take into account the fact that a specific region was given to a group of people who in some measure might have deserved that land, given what had been done to them. In other words, an attempt was made to right an incredible wrong... an imperfect solution at best, but at least it was an attempt.

Of course, what has happened in the time since is arguably indefensible; but honestly, what would you have expected when you plopped a large group of people hated by another group of people, right in the middle of the latter group of people's land?




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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: RgrF
Date: November 02, 2011 12:04AM
I think Peter nailed it when he said but honestly, what would you have expected when you plopped a large group of people hated by another group of people, right in the middle of the latter group of people's land?

That's what happened and we've been dealing with the aftermath since.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: November 02, 2011 09:30AM
Peter, you touch on a very good question.

But the problem was with the 'attempt'. The attrocities commited against the Jewish people was something done by the West, and so it would have been more proper for the West to take responsiblity for the situation. A solution should not necessarily be giving them a homeland. The U.S. and Canada had plenty of land and resources to welcome them into our countries for example (we are two nations of immigrants afterall). But due to our own intirinsic anti-Semetic prejudices, we forked the problem onto another plate entirely (the Palestinians were the least deserving of haveing to bear responsiblity for a 'solution'). Couple this with the Zionist movement (the seeking of the Jewish homeland of 2000 years ago), and you got the present day situation.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: RgrF
Date: November 02, 2011 09:40AM
It was a way of sweeping the problem under the rug. At that time the mid-east was just another source of oil and Palestine was a throw away entity.
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: November 02, 2011 09:46AM
Yup, it sure seems like it...
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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: Spock
Date: November 02, 2011 11:00AM
Quote
PeterB

If the Jews had been given, say, Bavaria ...

... or Alaska.

Thank you Peter, you have reminded me, via a somewhat tenuous association, that I had intended to read "The Yiddish Policeman's Union".



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Re: UNESCO Grants Palestine full membership... Not a good move for the agency
Posted by: $tevie
Date: November 02, 2011 11:42AM


[www.thedailyshow.com]
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