[news.yahoo.com]

SALMON, Idaho (Reuters) - The Idaho Senate on Monday approved a measure requiring women seeking abortions to undergo an ultrasound before ending a pregnancy, joining a number of states passing ultrasound measures to discourage abortions.

The bill now heads to the state House of Representatives, where it was expected to pass.
Idaho's Republican Governor, C.L. "Butch" Otter has not yet said whether he would sign the bill into law and a spokesman declined to comment on Monday.

Otter said last April, after signing a measure banning abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, that he supported restrictions on abortion.

Idaho is among 10 states considering a form of ultrasound legislation, said Elizabeth Nash, state issues manager for the Guttmacher Institute, an abortion-rights think tank.

A law recently passed in Virginia goes into effect in July, which will bring to eight the number of states requiring pre-abortion ultrasounds, she said.

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“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
"There are only two mantras yummm and yuk "
"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
"I got to that part and I knew there was going to be some weapons grade stupid to follow"Lux Interior
"When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then
will you discover you cannot eat money."
~ Cree Prophecy

Idaho is part of America?

Where are all the small government conservatives? There has to be some lobbyist for a medical products company that is making like McDuck with all these stupid and intrusive laws.

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in tha 510.

There is a form of absolutism at work here that says that if even one abortion is averted through paternalistic and intrusive government regulation, the whole enterprise is worthwhile.

This is precisely the kind of thinking that destroys empires and creates the worst manner of public policy for a pluralistic society.

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rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future

Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Where are all the small government conservatives?

there are some conservatives who are quite comfortable with their small government forcing their way upon the lives of women.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

Agree.

Tennessee's legislature is debating a loulou of a law too, this one is even more sinister I think than the ultrasound laws, because it requires making doctor's names public and revealing enough information about the patient that in small communities she could be identified. There is no public health goal, just the desire to shame.

Ten. supreme court has ruled that abortion is a constitutional right in the state, so they don't bother with the ultrasound stuff or other types of doctor/patient interference, they're going straight for destruction of medical privacy.

[www.tennessean.com]

This is unbelievable. I feel like I'm in a waking nightmare. WTF is happening to this country?

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

It feels like cultural backlash from men and women who are threatened by the rise of women in our culture. They are exercising power where they still hold it, in the legislatures and in Congress. Women are the majority of voters now, the majority of college students, the majority in the professional schools except for engineering.
The good ole boys and gals are scared. I don't know how else to explain it.

I want to make a bumper sticker that says GOP MYOB.

Believe me, women will remember in November. The Democrats and going to spin these things like tornadoes.

The Democrats BETTER spin this or I am really going to be in despair.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Quote
Grace62
It feels like cultural backlash from men and women who are threatened by the rise of women in our culture. They are exercising power where they still hold it, in the legislatures and in Congress. Women are the majority of voters now, the majority of college students, the majority in the professional schools except for engineering.
The good ole boys and gals are scared. I don't know how else to explain it.

I think Grace nailed it. There is a segment of our population who want "girls to be girls" and "men to be men", and for us to return to the quaint year of 1952, when men went to work, and women stayed home and took care of the kids. Things were seemingly less complicated then, which is reassuring to the proles... who would prefer that we not have to think about things like contraception, abortion, or sex for purposes other than procreation; or for that matter, that we not have to think about anything at all.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 01:05PM by PeterB.

I think it has a lot of potency with young single women and with women old enough to remember when we did not have the right to contraception or abortion, but other women in the middle still tend to vote more on economic issues than on social ones, so they seem pretty evenly split between Dems and the GOP, though women overall support the President more than men do.

I don't think these laws are being primarily motivated by a desire to put women in their place by male lawmakers. There may be a bit of that around the periphery, but mostly it is about a belief that a zygote is enough of a human person to deserve basic rights that people have - as in the right to life. They don't accept the Supreme Court rulings that have made abortion a woman's right and they are pushing the legal boundaries to make abortions as least likely to happen as they can and stay within the Supreme Court rulings.

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court ruled after Roe V. Wade that it is okay for states to pass laws that require women to get information about the abortion before getting the abortion as long as those information requirements do not create an "undue burden" on the woman's ability to exercise her right to an abortion. These anti-abortion state legislators are driving trucks through the "undue burden" standard. I suspect that the requirement to provide confidential medical information will not stand up in court, though. And the part about making the doctor's name public may not pass judicial review either.

Ted that might make sense if this were only about abortion, and if the anti-choice rhetoric had been consistent since the 70's.
But the war against women's rights includes fighting domestic violence laws, redefining rape, fighting laws that address workplace discrimination against women, allowing insurance companies not to cover women's health needs like contraception, and on and on.

Control freak extremists who fear change and want to roll back the clock all over the world use women as their battleground, it's not unique to American politics.

Quote
Grace62
Ted that might make sense if this were only about abortion, and if the anti-choice rhetoric had been consistent since the 70's.
But the war against women's rights includes fighting domestic violence laws, redefining rape, fighting laws that address workplace discrimination against women, allowing insurance companies not to cover women's health needs like contraception, and on and on.

Control freak extremists who fear change and want to roll back the clock all over the world use women as their battleground, it's not unique to American politics.

I thought this thread was about abortion - the OP certainly is. To the extent that the discussion is broadened to be about many of the other things you listed, then, yes, there certainly is more of the "good ol' boys" wanting to walk back many of the accomplishments in women's rights.

Quote
Ted King

Quote
Grace62
Ted that might make sense if this were only about abortion, and if the anti-choice rhetoric had been consistent since the 70's.
But the war against women's rights includes fighting domestic violence laws, redefining rape, fighting laws that address workplace discrimination against women, allowing insurance companies not to cover women's health needs like contraception, and on and on.

Control freak extremists who fear change and want to roll back the clock all over the world use women as their battleground, it's not unique to American politics.

I thought this thread was about abortion - the OP certainly is. To the extent that the discussion is broadened to be about many of the other things you listed, then, yes, there certainly is more of the "good ol' boys" wanting to walk back many of the accomplishments in women's rights.

Abortion is one of the of the key elements in the fight. I don't buy the religious angle or the zygote worship thing, at least not from politicians. If they were genuinely concerned about women and children, they would not be the same party constantly slashing benefits and support for those same people. Actions speak louder than rhetoric, and these people have made clear who they are.

Quote
Grace62

Quote
Ted King

Quote
Grace62
Ted that might make sense if this were only about abortion, and if the anti-choice rhetoric had been consistent since the 70's.
But the war against women's rights includes fighting domestic violence laws, redefining rape, fighting laws that address workplace discrimination against women, allowing insurance companies not to cover women's health needs like contraception, and on and on.

Control freak extremists who fear change and want to roll back the clock all over the world use women as their battleground, it's not unique to American politics.

I thought this thread was about abortion - the OP certainly is. To the extent that the discussion is broadened to be about many of the other things you listed, then, yes, there certainly is more of the "good ol' boys" wanting to walk back many of the accomplishments in women's rights.

Abortion is one of the of the key elements in the fight. I don't buy the religious angle or the zygote worship thing, at least not from politicians. If they were genuinely concerned about women and children, they would not be the same party constantly slashing benefits and support for those same people. Actions speak louder than rhetoric, and these people have made clear who they are.

I don't agree with a general assessment that the politicians who are against abortion are not genuinely concerned about a zygote as a person who deserves a right to life (though I'm sure there are a few who are that cynical). I do agree, though, that the near obsession with the welfare of the zygote often doesn't extend to much more than making it to birth and then - it's a tough world kid, you're on your own.

I pay my exorbitant taxes to live in one of the reasonably civilized state in this nation.

Quote
Grace62
Ted that might make sense if this were only about abortion, and if the anti-choice rhetoric had been consistent since the 70's.
But the war against women's rights includes fighting domestic violence laws, redefining rape, fighting laws that address workplace discrimination against women, allowing insurance companies not to cover women's health needs like contraception, and on and on.

Control freak extremists who fear change and want to roll back the clock all over the world use women as their battleground, it's not unique to American politics.

Grace there are brain washed conservative women that are part and parcel to these initiatives.
Especially the antiabortion issues and the mandated requirements being instituted.


Maybe they attended those schools where no teachers indoctrinate students . . . or influence them.

Rudie

---

“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
"There are only two mantras yummm and yuk "
"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
"I got to that part and I knew there was going to be some weapons grade stupid to follow"Lux Interior
"When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then
will you discover you cannot eat money."
~ Cree Prophecy




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 03:47PM by haikuman.

I'm aware of the conservative women who support anti-women's rights efforts.
Not clear what else you're trying to say.
I've never heard of anti-choice advocacy taking place in public school, nor pro-choice advocacy. That topic is generally verboten in K-12 education.

But the war against women's rights includes fighting domestic violence laws, redefining rape, fighting laws that address workplace discrimination against women, allowing insurance companies not to cover women's health needs like contraception, and on and on.

Drrrrmaaa . . . I am not aware of a war against women, you may be posting from a distortion field.

---

“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
"There are only two mantras yummm and yuk "
"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
"I got to that part and I knew there was going to be some weapons grade stupid to follow"Lux Interior
"When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then
will you discover you cannot eat money."
~ Cree Prophecy

Geez, read the newspaper Rudie. It's pretty obvious women are coming under fire in legislatures across this country.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Quote
haikuman
SALMON, Idaho (Reuters) - The Idaho Senate on Monday approved a measure requiring women seeking abortions to undergo an ultrasound before ending a pregnancy, joining a number of states passing ultrasound measures to discourage abortions.

Here's the thing that bugs me about grouping all ultrasound laws under the antiabortion umbrella...

There's a difference between requiring an ultrasound to establish the correct age of the embryo/fetus or to check for potential health-complications vs performing an ultrasound in order to humiliate women and to discourage abortions.

Yes, this bill and all of the others so far passed is one of the "lets humiliate women" type.

It "requires abortion providers to show or describe to a woman an ultrasound image of her fetus."

But the op is attacking "requiring pre-abortion ultrasounds." There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It might even be "best-practice" for a physician to take a scan before performing the procedure. Legislating minimal standards for a medical practice is not inherently wrong.

What makes it wrong is this part:



But now all legislation about standards for medical services related to abortion is instantly suspicious. Just because of the @#$%& who push the antiabortion line. Legitimate laws are probably not getting passed because otherwise decent lawmakers don't want to get grouped with the nutters.

They are jeopardizing women's health in a lot more was than are immediately obvious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 05:51PM by Chakravartin.

Geez, read the newspaper $tevie. It's pretty obvious abortion is still under fire in legislatures across this country.

Fixed that for ya *(:>*

---

“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
"There are only two mantras yummm and yuk "
"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
"I got to that part and I knew there was going to be some weapons grade stupid to follow"Lux Interior
"When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then
will you discover you cannot eat money."
~ Cree Prophecy

This lady has it figured out:
[www.azcentral.com]

Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Where are all the small government conservatives? There has to be some lobbyist for a medical products company that is making like McDuck with all these stupid and intrusive laws.

Small government conservatives care bout government regulation of business, not about government regulation of personal behavior.