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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: March 27, 2012 09:00AM
The police officer wouldn't be arrested.

Your 'unarmed civilian' was a 17 year old, 6'2" attacker, who Zimmerman asserts broke his nose, then jumped him, slamming his head repeatedly into the sidewalk.

The witness seems to confirm Zimmerman was the one on the bottom.

Again, no evidence _yet_ contradicts the above version of events.

So exactly what is the probable cause for arrest?

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Lux Interior
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Bill in NC
As for the latter, there would be significant civil liability for both the officer(s) and department for taking someone into custody (for simply being the shooter, without probable cause for an arrest), so I'm not surprised that didn't happen.

"simply being the shooter"

WTF?

He shot and killed an unarmed civilian. Even a cop who does that will get taken off the street pending an investigation.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Grace62
Date: March 27, 2012 09:21AM
Bill in NC,
Where is the shirt George Zimmerman was wearing when he shot Trayvon? The one with the grass stains and blood stains (if he shot Trayvon while Trayvon was on top of him he'd be covered with his blood, and his own blood would likely be there from this beating he says he got, and there would be grass stains on the back.) Where's the shirt? Were Zimmerman's alleged injuries photographed? Was the blood allegedly on him his own or Trayvon's?

That's the evidence that would corroborate Zimmerman's story. Did the police let him wear the shirt home?

How many shots were fired? What did analysis of the gun show?
Were all witness statements accepted by the police or were some rejected because they didn't match Zimmerman?
Was Zimmerman drunk or on any drugs at the time of the shooting?
Why wasn't a prosecutor brought to the scene, which is SOP in
Sanford, Fl when there is a homicide investigation?
Was a background check done on Zimmerman before they let him go?
Why did Sanford police not check Trayvon's cell phone or attempt to contact his family after his death?

Without having prosecutor look at all of the above evidence and all the witness statements, how did they reach the conclusion that he didn't need to be charged with anything?

Why did Sanford police leak the witness report from Zimmerman to an Orlando Sentinel who then reported it as fact, instead of making clear she was telling Zimmerman's story, got called out by MSNBC and had to edit her story, killing its tone and punch?

I know you don't like Trayvon Martin, but why the complete lack of interest in justice in this case?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 09:21AM by Grace62.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: March 27, 2012 09:22AM
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Bill in NC
The police officer wouldn't be arrested.

I didn't say he would be arrested. The shooting, however, would be investigated. The police in this case didn't seem to have an interest in investigating it.

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Bill in NC
Your 'unarmed civilian' was a 17 year old, 6'2" attacker

Why is Martin the "Attacker"?

Why do you choose to emphasize his height? What about his weight? because he weighed 140 pounds? Sounds like he was a stick. Zimmerman had 110 pounds on him.

Anyway, Zimmerman had a gun. This cancels out all height and weight advantages.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: August West
Date: March 27, 2012 09:22AM
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Again, no evidence _yet_ contradicts the above version of events.

Nor is it a complete version of the events, so again, it is speculation.

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Your 'unarmed civilian' was a 17 year old, 6'2" attacker

Where is your evidence of this? How do you know he was not defending himself from an armed stalker?
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Grace62
Date: March 27, 2012 09:24AM
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Bill in NC
His injuries are consistent with his version of events.

Again, given current evidence what crime do the local police charge him with, considering Zimmerman doesn't have to prove anything, but the local DA does?

I appreciate you don't like the guy, but exactly what crime has been committed?
ote]

The info above comes from Zimmerman's witness statement but you are stating it as though it's proven fact. What evidence backs it up? (see my comment above)
How did police verify the injuries or what caused them? Zimmerman wasn't taken to the hospital, which is SOP in these situations.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: $tevie
Date: March 27, 2012 11:52AM
For heaven's sake, the very fact that this has become a national issue PROVES that there should have been an immediate investigation. If indeed Zimmerman was innocent of murder, it would have been established already. IF he is not guilty of chasing Martin and forcing a confrontation, then this law has screwed Zimmerman totally and completely.

I can't believe that anyone thinks it is okay to release someone who kills someone with no more than a "Gee, sorry for your troubles, pal."



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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Grace62
Date: March 27, 2012 12:07PM
I think a combination of a really insane law in Florida, Stand your ground, that limits the ability of police and prosecutors to completely examine the case, plus what looks to be a police cover-up of a poorly conducted investigation, brought this case to where it is now. Obviously without the persistence of Trayvon's parents and the people who have supported them, the police would have gotten away with the cover-up.

The lack of evidence gathered at the scene may actually make it impossible to convict Zimmerman under Florida law. He has his story, and the police didn't gather evidence to either corroborate or refute it. The one minute time period between the end of the 911 call and when witnesses arrived is a mystery, and only George Zimmerman is alive to say what happened. And in that one minute Trayvon Martin was shot dead.

The Stand your Ground law does it make it possible for him to use the alleged scuffle as a defense, and his attorney says he would invoke that defense if Zimmerman is charged.

So the justice that may come out of this might only be a civil rights lawsuit against the Sanford police dept., and exposure of their incompetence. If that's what comes to pass, that will be much better than nothing.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: March 27, 2012 12:11PM
Again, the burden remains on the police, not on Zimmerman.

If they failed to secure his clothing at the time, that falls on them.

His version of events, not yet contradicted by the evidence, does not provide probable cause for his arrest.

If you disagree, please explain why you feel there is probable cause, keeping in mind that controversial law.

There are still plenty of issues to investigate, as you note in your other post, and the police certainly have the time to do so, to see if they contradict Zimmerman's version of events.

IIRC, a grand jury convenes on Thursday.

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Grace62
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Bill in NC
His injuries are consistent with his version of events.

Again, given current evidence what crime do the local police charge him with, considering Zimmerman doesn't have to prove anything, but the local DA does?

I appreciate you don't like the guy, but exactly what crime has been committed?
ote]

The info above comes from Zimmerman's witness statement but you are stating it as though it's proven fact. What evidence backs it up? (see my comment above)
How did police verify the injuries or what caused them? Zimmerman wasn't taken to the hospital, which is SOP in these situations.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Grace62
Date: March 27, 2012 12:24PM
You're right Bill, it's a serious police screw-up, aided and abetted by an insane law that stands in the way of justice.

However, you seemed to be accepting Zimmerman's story without benefit of evidence, and assume that people who want justice just don't like Zimmerman. The police had plenty of "probably cause" to do an much more complete investigation before accepting Zimmerman's story. Police can't accept testimony from a witness at the scene of a crime, they can collect evidence and statements but a prosecutor should make the call about charges.
It was your willingness to blindly accept Zimmerman's story and lack of interest in justice that was a bit startling.
I appreciate your updated comment though.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: March 27, 2012 01:42PM
I'm afraid without videotape we will never know 'the truth' in this case.

Those who want Zimmerman to be prosecuted, however, should not be pressing for a rapid arrest.

IIRC, that would allow his lawyer to invoke the 'stand your ground' law and press for a relief from a judge before any trial could take place.

Those who want to see him convicted should not be pressing autorities to pursue a course of action likely to result in a judge speedily granting both criminal & civil immunity to Zimmerman.

And yes, I remain skeptical of any rush to judgment after my own state's experience in the Duke Lacrosse case.

In that case, the actions of the police department mean that city still faces a multi-million dollar federal lawsuit from those arrested (and even if the city prevails at trial, the legal fees alone could be 7 figures)
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: March 27, 2012 01:51PM
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Bill in NC
If you disagree, please explain why you feel there is probable cause, keeping in mind that controversial law.

He pursued his victim. That is not standing your ground.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Grace62
Date: March 27, 2012 01:51PM
Virtually no homicides are videotaped, yet prosecutors in jurisdictions where the police are not incompetent and/or corrupt do get convictions.

I think you're ignoring the fact that the only reason this case is even being reviewed at all is the protest from Martin's family and the people who support them. How dare anyone criticize the parents of this dead boy after Sanford Florida made them beg for basic justice, and the indecent way that the city treated their son's dead body?

Without that persistence, this was over. No chance of any type of justice.

Now that the DoJ is looking into it, and the FBI, and the state of Florida, there won't be any rush but there will, finally, be an investigation.

Zimmerman's attorney WILL use the stand your ground defense if his client goes to court, and it will probably work because the police botched the evidence so badly. He has nothing to be civilly sued for anyway, so who cares. It's the state of Florida and the city of Sanford that are going to get sued.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: March 27, 2012 02:40PM
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Grace62
Zimmerman's attorney WILL use the stand your ground defense if his client goes to court, and it will probably work because the police botched the evidence so badly.

The next O. J. Simpson...
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Grace62
Date: March 27, 2012 02:55PM
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Carnos Jax
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Grace62
Zimmerman's attorney WILL use the stand your ground defense if his client goes to court, and it will probably work because the police botched the evidence so badly.

The next O. J. Simpson...

I wish people would stop cheapening and mocking this case by trying to tie it into other unrelated but sensational cases, like OJ or Duke Lacrosse.
Trayvon Martin deserves better than that. So does George Zimmerman,.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Spock
Date: March 27, 2012 07:58PM
Trayvon rumors abound, but here are facts.






Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: Trayvon Martin case: After police chief steps aside, state prosecutor recuses himself
Posted by: Grace62
Date: March 27, 2012 09:34PM
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Spock
Trayvon rumors abound, but here are facts.

That explains about the clothes. Thanks for that. Does not explain about the cell phone and the lack of prosecutor at the scene or why they didn't try to contact Trayvon's parents.
If they had all that evidence, why wasn't anything referred to a grand jury? What's the point of evidence gathering if you've already decided the person can't be chargeded? And wandering free, cant' the shooter just leave the country or go into hiding somewhere, instead of waiting while released on bond, like most people who shoot and kill someone?
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