[www.cbsnews.com]

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As the Supreme Court embarks on three days of historic arguments over President Obama's health care law - two years after the law was enacted - Americans remain skeptical about the legislation.

A CBS News/New York Times poll shows 47 percent of Americans disapprove of the president's Affordable Care Act, including 30 percent who strongly disapprove.

Of course there was no polling on what percentage of Americans have absolutely no clue about what the Obama health care law really does.

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The results also needs to split up into the people who think it should be stronger, from the ones that don't like it just because the Democrats pushed it this time versus the Republicans.

Pollster: "So why are you against this bill, when the Republicans put forward a very similar outline created by the Heritage Foundation in 1993?"
Polled: "Umm... oww! I sprained my brain."

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in tha 510.

I don't think most of the politicians who voted for or against it even read the whole thing.

How could most Americans understand it? Wealthy lobbies that wouldn't benefit from it are paying millions to make sure we don't, spreading as much fear as possible.

Do we even have a chance?

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[www.giyf.com]

I wonder which specific parts they object to most.

[www.healthcare.gov]

They've been lied to and then lied to some more, it's a wonder that the other 54% don't.

Socialism!

I'll wager that most people like the provisions of the legislation, except for the provision that pays for it.

100% of politicians who voted for it did not understand the whole thing. Ditto about 100% of voters.

I tried. I really tried. I spent perhaps 20 hours trying to figure the damn thing out, but it's like trying to understand spaghetti "C##" code that's commented in Chinese. And I don't read Chinese, OR C##.

Apparently, the poll's only question,

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Question
From what you've heard or read, do you approve or disapprove of the health care law that was enacted in 2010?

Given that the poll split strongly on party lines, I'm going to have to favor RrgF's take on this one.

In other words, whether the Kool-Aid is Grape or Cherry, it's still Kool-Aid.

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cbelt3
100% of politicians who voted for it did not understand the whole thing. Ditto about 100% of voters.

Standard false republican talking point. There are plenty of information sources that explain it as simply or in as much detail as you want. The only people who don't understand it are those who choose not to learn. Here for example: [www.healthcare.gov]

I understand why people don't like it. It started off as a pretty decent concept with a public option to keep the insurance industry in check, but that was nuked by the republicans as "socialism" and the plan we ended up with was largely a crappy retread of a Romneycare, which the conservative Heritage foundation took credit for creating. The architects of the plan we got were republicans, but they have now disavowed all knowledge of their participation and are trying to defeat it in order to bring down Obama.

The plan gives far too much to entrenched insurance and medical special interests and doesn't do enough to contain costs, hence a lot of annoyed democrats. The republicans are annoyed simply because they've been worked into a frenzy of collective amnesia by their lockstep propaganda-meisters Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and the crazy people running as presidential candidates. Even Romney has reversed himself so as to "stay on message".

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 09:48AM by davester.

davester, that's a summary sales pitch site. I'm talking about the details.. what rules were changed where, how it affects doctors, insurers, etc. Not just the insured.

I think you may have unwittingly proved my point. It's a case of the blind men and the elephant. Most folks think about it from the insured's perspective.. the trunk. Not the tail or the feet.

As a part owner of the United States of America (Hey.. I'm a citizen and a taxpayer and a voter !) I wanted to understand exactly WHAT they voted in. And of course the political talking points are all about different bits and pieces rather than the extensive changes to the US Code as a whole.

Oh.. and the MOST important metric of all..

Have your health cost gone down or UP ????

Mine are up, up, up , baby !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 10:10AM by cbelt3.

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cbelt3
Mine are up, up, up , baby !

As a result of what?

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Lux Interior

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cbelt3
Mine are up, up, up , baby !

As a result of what?

exactly
Most provisions of the ACA go into effect in 2014. And that part of it is not at all hard to understand.

cbelt,
The language of the ACA bill is not more complicated than the standard health insurance contract between your employer and your health insurance company. Is your employer able to understand what he/she signs every year on your behalf?
If your congressman is telling you he couldn't understand the bill, I'd be looking to replace him.

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davester
Even Romney has reversed himself so as to "stay on message".

He's been couching states rights to implementation ( A la Massachusetts ) for quite a while. When did that change ?

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billb


He's been couching states rights to implementation ( A la Massachusetts ) for quite a while. When did that change ?

Santorum's been reaming Romney on the fact that a few years ago Romney suggested Obama take a look at Massachusetts to see how healthcare could be done, the implication being that Romney was suggesting the plan could be nationalized.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

Romney wrote an op-ed for USA Today back in '09 suggesting to Pres. Obama how the successful Mass. plan could be translated to a federal plan. At that time he praised the individual mandate as necessary in order for such a plan to work.
He changed his tune after he started running for the 2012 ticket.

[forums.macresource.com]

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cbelt3
I tried. I really tried. I spent perhaps 20 hours trying to figure the damn thing out, but it's like trying to understand spaghetti "C##" code that's commented in Chinese. And I don't read Chinese, OR C##.

And did you have personal staff members and congressional staff members to help you with this project? Why oh why do people insist on pretending that legislators have to sit around plowing through these documents unassisted?

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

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Filliam H. Muffman
The results also needs to split up into the people who think it should be stronger, from the ones that don't like it just because the Democrats pushed it this time versus the Republicans.

Definitely! Fortunately, the Kaiser Family Foundation has done just that:

[www.kff.org]

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03/12

Expand the law: 28%
Keep law as is: 19%
Repeal and Replace: 18%
Repeal and NOT replace: 23%
Don't know/refuse: 12%

47% want to keep the law as is or expand it, 41% want to repeal it (with some also wanting it replaced). So that "47% disapprove" result is misleading because it gives the impression that 47% want it repealed when in fact several percent of those who don't approve of it don't approve of it because they think it doesn't go far enough but are not in favor of having it repealed.

More info:

[www.americanprogress.org]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 12:14PM by Ted King.

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Grace62
Romney wrote an op-ed for USA Today back in '09 suggesting to Pres. Obama how the successful Mass. plan could be translated to a federal plan. At that time he praised the individual mandate as necessary in order for such a plan to work.
He changed his tune after he started running for the 2012 ticket.

[forums.macresource.com]

Ah, so it was Romney who turned Obama around from his refusal to back the Individual Mandate back in 2008 ?

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billb

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Grace62
Romney wrote an op-ed for USA Today back in '09 suggesting to Pres. Obama how the successful Mass. plan could be translated to a federal plan. At that time he praised the individual mandate as necessary in order for such a plan to work.
He changed his tune after he started running for the 2012 ticket.

[forums.macresource.com]

Ah, so it was Romney who turned Obama around from his refusal to back the Individual Mandate back in 2008 ?

I think Newt had already convinced him in 2007.
[motherjones.com]

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billb

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Grace62
Romney wrote an op-ed for USA Today back in '09 suggesting to Pres. Obama how the successful Mass. plan could be translated to a federal plan. At that time he praised the individual mandate as necessary in order for such a plan to work.
He changed his tune after he started running for the 2012 ticket.

[forums.macresource.com]

Ah, so it was Romney who turned Obama around from his refusal to back the Individual Mandate back in 2008 ?

No, that was Blue-dog Democrats who naively thought that they would get political cover by embracing a Republican plan only to watch the Republicans run away from it and pretend that they never had anything to do with the idea and say that only socialist devils would approve of an individual mandate.

New Yorker story on Obama's change of mind regarding the mandate:

[www.newyorker.com]

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billb

Too bad the proceedings aren't televised.

this is from a friend of mine who doesn't like Obama much, but he works in health care as a surgical tech in Philly. self-described "Modern Yippie (reformed)"

As a health care worker it's time I weighed in on this issue... I regard the Obama plan mandating all people have health coverage as valid, though I see some considerable flaws... A great problem with health care are millions of people who refuse to pay for it... the electively unissured are a massive drain on the system. Strange that conservatives are against the essence of this plan...

I encounter many people in both my line of work and socially that don't have health insurance... this is more often less a matter of income but more a matter of they simply don't want to spend their money on a plan. I'm all for a mandate of coverage...

NPR did a feature on Americans without health insurance some 2 years ago when Obama came up with his plan. Their subject was a single computer guy who claimed he "only" made 50k after taxes (that's a 75k job). His big gripe: "I can't go snowboarding or rollerblading because I'm afraid I'll tear up my knee." @#$%& to him... and NPR for presenting such a spurious case. I know many people in this position that can not be lumped in with the genuine poor and low-income. They use reasons like being self-employed or "I'm an artist!" as reasons... in reality they refuse to pay $285 or so a month for their health... yet think nothing of paying $150 for cable or cell phone plans... or cite bogus ideological reasons like socialism...

I had a patient recently who owned 2 beauty salons but had no health insurance... I'm thinking more of these "scofflaws" and deadbeats who gamble with thier own health. Being uninsured also counters preventative care... had this bimbo been going to a doctor she may have not been in the condition she ended up in. I'm hoping aspects of this plan's mandate will reduce this demographic of the health care issue...

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[www.giyf.com]