To gain understanding of Christian persecution, it seems it might be necessary to abuse children. Tough love from the church.

Pa. Church stages fake kidnapping of children

I hope that pastor is charged with child endangerment, but the state of Pennsylvania doesn't exactly have a great record on looking out for the welfare of young people.

He's taken a basic, tried and true teaching method, the element of surprise, and warped it into something pretty sick.

What he did is less traumatic and certainly less prevalent than what goes on regularly at state-funded, privately run teen rehab facilities, places parents have voluntarily sent their kids and that taxpayers fund.

I think any priests or ministers caught molesting children should be burned at the stake or crucified upside down in the public square.

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[www.giyf.com]

Someone read the SERE manual ?

Perhaps the pastory is taking the "Christian Soldiers" theme a bit too far ? Of course Child Warriors is a common aspect of religious and political movements throughout history and into modern times. At 14, many cultures considers these children to be adults.

You're joking, right? Perhaps he's taking it a bit too far?

August-
Yes, he's taken it too far from a suburban church perspective. And no, I would hope that US Children never have to go through that sort of thing.

That said, there are any number of quasi-paramilitary 'training' summer camps to which one can send their child. Some religious themed, some not so much. Not to mention military academies. All of which quite possibly do this sort of training. And no, I have no experience therein.

Going to a "quasi-paramilitary 'training' summer camp" and having that experience is a far cry from sitting in your youth group meeting and having that experience. The two are completely unrelated, since the children at those camps know they are in a situation which could include fake violence.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

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That said, there are any number of quasi-paramilitary 'training' summer camps to which one can send their child. Some religious themed, some not so much. Not to mention military academies.

And I imagine in those cases, parents, misguided or not, have given informed consent to have their 14 year old daughter "learn" through these methods.

August.. yep. I also think you'll find that the parents of this youth group probably signed some vaguely worded lawyer repellent that allows the pastor to do anything within the law. (An assumption on my part, but a reasonable one.)

The parents weren't told this was going to happen, so that document would have had to been so vaguely worded as to be worthless.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

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cbelt3
August.. yep. I also think you'll find that the parents of this youth group probably signed some vaguely worded lawyer repellent that allows the pastor to do anything within the law. (An assumption on my part, but a reasonable one.)

from the link in the OP:

"Neither the students nor their parents were told about the raid beforehand, he said, though it was discussed with the parents of one youth who might have health issues."

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decay
I think any priests or ministers caught molesting children should be burned at the stake or crucified upside down in the public square.

Amen *(:>*

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The people who instigated that must be completely batshit crazy.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland

Perchance is the pastor trying to create the US chapter of The Lord's Resistance Army?

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I must perforce point out that if these teens are being prepared for working in missions in less than friendly nations, such training may be quite appropriate. Christian missionaries are in mortal danger if they dare to enter Muslim nations, and are in danger of serious mistreatment in divers other nations such as our largest trading partner, China. Confrontational class training teaches you not to do the most dangerous thing imaginable... physically fight back against overwhelming odds who are perfectly willing to kill you. I never had that sort of training, just a bit of role playing work in my student activist days.

However since the initial complaint story seems to have generated from a parent, the mission concept is quite probably a poor assumption.

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...such training may be quite appropriate.

This abuse was not appropriate. I feel very sorry for children whose parents believe it is. I think these adults are a prime contributor to the dysfunctional society that confronts us.

Solution: Christians, quit trying to force your beliefs on those of other faiths, and your risk of kidnapping or other mortal danger is greatly reduced. Everybody wins!

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Uncle Wig
Solution: Christians, quit trying to force your beliefs on those of other faiths, and your risk of kidnapping or other mortal danger is greatly reduced. Everybody wins!

That's really the larger question isn't it. How appropriate is it to train children for the purpose of eventually intentionally putting them in harm's way? You'd have to ask yourself, what sort of church or religion trains young people to be prepared to become martyrs?

There is no higher moral ground here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 11:57PM by RgrF.

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cbelt3
Christian missionaries are in mortal danger if they dare to enter Muslim nations

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Pastor & Kidnapper
"It was a youth event, to illustrate what others have encountered on a regular basis," he said, adding that the focus of the lesson was "the persecuted church" in other countries."

So, you go to a foreign country and proselytize. They don't like it and kidnap you.

Does this mean if a group of Muslim missionaries who are attacked doing the same in say rural Mississippi proves that Muslims are persecuted in this country. How about just a group of Muslims minding their own business?

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Uncle Wig
Solution: Christians, quit trying to force your beliefs on those of other faiths, and your risk of kidnapping or other mortal danger is greatly reduced. Everybody wins!

Et voilà!

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Pastor & Kidnapper
"I would find a way that we could continue to keep the shock value," he said, "but I would find a way to inform the parents (beforehand)."

How about this: Inform the parents.

So easy!

I think he is worried that the parents will say, "Are you f***in' insane! No way!" and then he won't get to play Navy SEAL instructor.

Uhm... Guys... the primary purpose of most religions is to increase its membership. Missionary work is a biggie. So is having many babies. I don't think you're going to change that basic imperative based on opinion.

Would I go on a missionary effort ? No... I can't handle cold-calling or its equivalent. I think religion is a private thing between you and your deity (or lack of same).

Do I respect people who follow their beliefs and do that kind of work. Yes. Yes I do. I always respect people who put themselves into their work and beliefs, body and soul. I may disagree with them, but I do respect commitment.

(OK, within limits.. I do not respect suicide bombers and that ilk.)

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George Carlin (RIP)
Religion is like a lift in your shoe. If it helps you stand up straighter and walk a little better, good for you! But don't you go and try to put your lifts in my shoes, and for crying out loud, let's stop sending missionaries to Africa to nail the lifts to the natives' bare feet!

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[www.giyf.com]

>>Uhm... Guys... the primary purpose of most religions is to increase its membership. Missionary work is a biggie.

Seems to me that its primarily a feature of christian religions.

Jews aren't out trying to sign up new members.

Neither are Quakers, Mennonites, or Amish.

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[www.giyf.com]

Anyhow, why travel around the world to recruit members? How about recruiting members in the Good Ol' USA? I don't think it's about increasing membership so much as about believing that anyone who is not Christian is a lost soul. It's a very patronizing view of other cultures. And if one does insist on doing "the Lord's work" in dangerous places, one ought to assume that either the Lord will protect you or else you are meant to be a martyr.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

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cbelt3
Uhm... Guys... the primary purpose of most religions is to increase its membership. Missionary work is a biggie. So is having many babies. I don't think you're going to change that basic imperative based on opinion.

Huh....I thought it was to have faith in a higher power and to gain salvation.

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matt... not quite true, just most of what you hear about in the US.

decay... quite correct. Having babies is their way of growing the faith. And in the case of the Anabaptist groups (Mennonite, Amish) , there are huge birth defect problems due to the interbreeding. Ohio has some large birth defect care and research centers in Amish areas to the south of where I live.

And in the case of the Jewish groups... methinks that mother guilt thing works, or so my Jewish friends have related to me... Same model I experience in Catholicism... Yes, Mom, I'm going to church/temple. Oy !

Wikipedia to the rescue on the rest... there's LOTS of Missionary work out there.
[en.wikipedia.org]

Quakers do NOT grow the faith by having babies. I was raised a Quaker and that's the silliest notion I've heard yet.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno