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washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 11, 2012 01:40PM
"Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face. "

[www.washingtonpost.com]
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: hal
Date: April 11, 2012 01:59PM
hey! welcome back!
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: April 11, 2012 02:00PM
I expect some pitiful 'discharge of a firearm within city limits' or something like that.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: hal
Date: April 11, 2012 02:06PM
Quote
cbelt3
I expect some pitiful 'discharge of a firearm within city limits' or something like that.

that's a good start, but if that's ALL, I'd expect riots...
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: billb
Date: April 11, 2012 02:07PM
I think they;'ll have a jury pore over the conflicting evidence of self defense and conflict initiation. It might still be a case the prosecution can't win, but trying knowing you're gonna lose will go a long way towards some sort of justice even if it is just a perceived one.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Pam
Date: April 11, 2012 02:24PM
Quote
billb
I think they;'ll have a jury pore over the conflicting evidence of self defense and conflict initiation. It might still be a case the prosecution can't win, but trying knowing you're gonna lose will go a long way towards some sort of justice even if it is just a perceived one.

You really want the guy to get off. Why? And don't quote the stand your ground law. That's cover. Is it because the rest of us wanted an arrest? Your politics prevent you from agreeing? I haven't talked to a single person who believes the guy acted within the SYG law.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Black
Date: April 11, 2012 02:25PM
Yay! Lemon drop is back!




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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Black
Date: April 11, 2012 02:28PM
Quote
Pam
Quote
billb
I think they;'ll have a jury pore over the conflicting evidence of self defense and conflict initiation. It might still be a case the prosecution can't win, but trying knowing you're gonna lose will go a long way towards some sort of justice even if it is just a perceived one.

You really want the guy to get off. Why? And don't quote the stand your ground law. That's cover. Is it because the rest of us wanted an arrest? Your politics prevent you from agreeing? I haven't talked to a single person who believes the guy acted within the SYG law.

My pick in bold.




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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: April 11, 2012 02:30PM
This is the first I've heard of "conflicting evidence" that even suggests there is a legitimate claim for self-defense.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 11, 2012 02:40PM
This is a no nonsense prosecutor with a tough reputation, she's not going to court with weak evidence. Especially in a case receiving this much publicity and scrutiny.

Why not just expect that she'll follow the law, and charge according to the evidence she has that's good enough for trial?

The public doesn't know what evidence she has, most of the important evidence, such as the autopsy report, has not been made public.

I'm so happy for Trayvon's parents. What courage and grace they have shown under intense pressure and scrutiny and grief. Whatever happens now, conviction or not, they will know that Florida and the US cared enough to do a thorough investigation into their son's death.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: hal
Date: April 11, 2012 02:53PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is a no nonsense prosecutor with a tough reputation, she's not going to court with weak evidence. Especially in a case receiving this much publicity and scrutiny.

Why not just expect that she'll follow the law, and charge according to the evidence she has that's good enough for trial?

The public doesn't know what evidence she has, most of the important evidence, such as the autopsy report, has not been made public.

I'm so happy for Trayvon's parents. What courage and grace they have shown under intense pressure and scrutiny and grief. Whatever happens now, conviction or not, they will know that Florida and the US cared enough to do a thorough investigation into their son's death.

INDEED! This needed to happen - I mean that this law must be challenged. I assume that many would have taken their grief and walked away while muttering how unfair life can be. But this family stepped up to fight for weeks before their voice was heard.

An unarmed kid was shot - there HAS TO BE a full investigation. How can ANYONE disagree with that?
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Spock
Date: April 11, 2012 02:59PM
Quote
billb
I think they;'ll have a jury pore over the conflicting evidence of self defense and conflict initiation. It might still be a case the prosecution can't win, but trying knowing you're gonna lose will go a long way towards some sort of justice even if it is just a perceived one.

It may end up not going to trial.

I suspect that it will go something like this.

1. An arrest warrant will be issued.

2. Zimmerman will surrender to the police.

3. He will be charged with a relatively minor crime.

4. He will make bail immediately.

5. After more than a year he will cop a plea to an even lesser charge and do no jail time or the state will drop the case. Or ...

5a. He will go to trial and be acquitted.



FYI I live some 40 miles south of Sanford and the above scenario is based on a conversation I had with a local lawyer yesterday.






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Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: billb
Date: April 11, 2012 03:11PM
Quote
Pam
Quote
billb
I think they;'ll have a jury pore over the conflicting evidence of self defense and conflict initiation. It might still be a case the prosecution can't win, but trying knowing you're gonna lose will go a long way towards some sort of justice even if it is just a perceived one.

You really want the guy to get off. Why?

You're projecting.
I don't care much for the protect your ground law.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 11, 2012 03:12PM
Well, no matter the outcome, it's clear that public pressure made a real difference here. What's critical is that the process is transparent and accountable to the people.

I'm with you on the parents, LD - they have been persistent but even-tempered through a devastatingly frustrating and sorrowful time.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: April 11, 2012 03:30PM
I'm betting the charge will be some form of manslaughter.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 11, 2012 04:36PM
Latest report is that he will be charged with 2nd degree murder and is already in custody.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 11, 2012 05:25PM
Just watched the press conference. I'm impressed with Angela Corey.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 11, 2012 05:33PM
Me too, and I'm really surprised that she went with 2nd degree. Wowzer, that's a very tough charge and carries a potential life sentence.
She obviously does not believe his self-defense story because second degree requires that she prove in court that he had "a depraved mind" when he shot Trayvon. They must have evidence to show his version was a lie.

She seemed to be doing a CYA for the Sanford police and the other SA, I guess that's what you'd expect. It's up to the feds to determine if they screwed up. After announcing so early that there would be no arrest of Zimmerman, it's tough to see how they did NOT screw up, big time.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Pam
Date: April 11, 2012 05:36PM
No way did SYG mean you could instigate a confrontation and pull a weapon on an unarmed person.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 11, 2012 05:42PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Me too, and I'm really surprised that she went with 2nd degree. Wowzer, that's a very tough charge and carries a potential life sentence.
She obviously does not believe his self-defense story because second degree requires that she prove in court that he had "a depraved mind" when he shot Trayvon. They must have evidence to show his version was a lie.

She seemed to be doing a CYA for the Sanford police and the other SA, I guess that's what you'd expect. It's up to the feds to determine if they screwed up. After announcing so early that there would be no arrest of Zimmerman, it's tough to see how they did NOT screw up, big time.

Yeah, it never helps the state's case to position law enforcement as having screwed up earlier re: the investigation. They'll have some explaining to do about that.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2012 05:43PM by rjmacs.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: April 11, 2012 05:50PM
Is there any talk of going after the cops or prosecutors or his old man for obstruction of justice?
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 11, 2012 06:03PM
Quote
Dennis S
Is there any talk of going after the cops or prosecutors or his old man for obstruction of justice?

Not outside of blogs and internet forums.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: April 11, 2012 06:04PM
Unless he's changed his story recently Zimmerman's claim is that he was hit first.

IIRC, no 3rd party has yet said they saw the start of the fight.

Quote
Pam
No way did SYG mean you could instigate a confrontation and pull a weapon on an unarmed person.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 11, 2012 06:12PM
Quote
Dennis S
Is there any talk of going after the cops or prosecutors or his old man for obstruction of justice?

Doubt there is anything against the Dad.

But as for Sanford police and their county SA, that's up to the feds, and they are investigating the case separately. They won't make anything public (in terms of civil rights charges against Zimmerman or the police dept, etc) until after this current criminal case plays out.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: $tevie
Date: April 11, 2012 07:17PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Unless he's changed his story recently Zimmerman's claim is that he was hit first.

IIRC, no 3rd party has yet said they saw the start of the fight.

Quote
Pam
No way did SYG mean you could instigate a confrontation and pull a weapon on an unarmed person.

I believe Pam is referring to the fact that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and pursued Martin, thereby forcing (i.e. instigating) the confrontation.



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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Pam
Date: April 11, 2012 07:30PM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Bill in NC
Unless he's changed his story recently Zimmerman's claim is that he was hit first.

IIRC, no 3rd party has yet said they saw the start of the fight.

Quote
Pam
No way did SYG mean you could instigate a confrontation and pull a weapon on an unarmed person.

I believe Pam is referring to the fact that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and pursued Martin, thereby forcing (i.e. instigating) the confrontation.

Exactly. After being told by 911 not to pursue. I have no doubt that if Zimmerman was not carrying a gun that he would not have pursued Martin.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: April 11, 2012 07:32PM
When the state's attorney (or the DA, or whoever) charges a suspect that he wants to nail he "climbs the ladder." He charges everything from disorderly conduct to aggravated assault to the highest charge he thinks he can get away with, in this case aggravated murder. The resolution will be somewhere in the middle.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: April 11, 2012 07:34PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is a no nonsense prosecutor with a tough reputation, she's not going to court with weak evidence. Especially in a case receiving this much publicity and scrutiny.

She's using an "information" instead of a "indictment."

She has no credible evidence for conviction. This is no more than a show for the public.

An information filing is the rough equivalent of saying "duh" to a judge instead of presenting facts for scrutiny by a grand jury. Murder is a strong enough charge and this case is so incendiary that almost any prosecutor would have gone for the indictment if the evidence supported the charges because that's how you cover your ass.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Grace62
Date: April 11, 2012 07:57PM
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is a no nonsense prosecutor with a tough reputation, she's not going to court with weak evidence. Especially in a case receiving this much publicity and scrutiny.

She's using an "information" instead of a "indictment."

She has no credible evidence for conviction. This is no more than a show for the public.

An information filing is the rough equivalent of saying "duh" to a judge instead of presenting facts for scrutiny by a grand jury. Murder is a strong enough charge and this case is so incendiary that almost any prosecutor would have gone for the indictment if the evidence supported the charges because that's how you cover your ass.

Bernie Madoff had an "information" instead of an indictment. All that means is that there was no grand jury involved. It means nothing in terms of the strength of her evidence. This SA frequently skips the GJ and she has an excellent record on getting convictions.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: April 11, 2012 08:34PM
Quote
Grace62
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is a no nonsense prosecutor with a tough reputation, she's not going to court with weak evidence. Especially in a case receiving this much publicity and scrutiny.

She's using an "information" instead of a "indictment."

She has no credible evidence for conviction. This is no more than a show for the public.

An information filing is the rough equivalent of saying "duh" to a judge instead of presenting facts for scrutiny by a grand jury. Murder is a strong enough charge and this case is so incendiary that almost any prosecutor would have gone for the indictment if the evidence supported the charges because that's how you cover your ass.

Bernie Madoff had an "information" instead of an indictment. All that means is that there was no grand jury involved. It means nothing in terms of the strength of her evidence. This SA frequently skips the GJ and she has an excellent record on getting convictions.

Madoff committed a nonviolent crime.

Murder is traditionally charged via indictment. Even in Florida.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 11, 2012 08:51PM
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
Grace62
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is a no nonsense prosecutor with a tough reputation, she's not going to court with weak evidence. Especially in a case receiving this much publicity and scrutiny.

She's using an "information" instead of a "indictment."

She has no credible evidence for conviction. This is no more than a show for the public.

An information filing is the rough equivalent of saying "duh" to a judge instead of presenting facts for scrutiny by a grand jury. Murder is a strong enough charge and this case is so incendiary that almost any prosecutor would have gone for the indictment if the evidence supported the charges because that's how you cover your ass.

Bernie Madoff had an "information" instead of an indictment. All that means is that there was no grand jury involved. It means nothing in terms of the strength of her evidence. This SA frequently skips the GJ and she has an excellent record on getting convictions.

Madoff committed a nonviolent crime.

Murder is traditionally charged via indictment. Even in Florida.

Florida law does not require a grand jury unless the charge is 1st degree murder.
Check this prosecutor's record. She frequently charges murder with no gj, and she frequently wins.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: RgrF
Date: April 12, 2012 12:28AM
Not to mention that a Grand Jury might choose not to indict on a first degree murder charge. Where would that leave her? She's going for what she thinks she can get.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: April 12, 2012 02:02AM
Quote
Pam
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Bill in NC
Unless he's changed his story recently Zimmerman's claim is that he was hit first.

IIRC, no 3rd party has yet said they saw the start of the fight.

Quote
Pam
No way did SYG mean you could instigate a confrontation and pull a weapon on an unarmed person.

I believe Pam is referring to the fact that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and pursued Martin, thereby forcing (i.e. instigating) the confrontation.

Exactly. After being told by 911 not to pursue. I have no doubt that if Zimmerman was not carrying a gun that he would not have pursued Martin.

And if Martin had had a gun, he would have been standing his ground had he shot Zimmerman. All he would have to say is, "Zimmerman hit me first." And then he would walk, because dead men can't talk. And apparently, that is good enough for some people.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 12, 2012 09:34AM
Quote
RgrF
Not to mention that a Grand Jury might choose not to indict on a first degree murder charge. Where would that leave her? She's going for what she thinks she can get.

I'm sure she was never considering asking for first degree. It's clear that this wasn't premeditated murder.
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Re: washington post - zimmerman will be charged this week
Posted by: haikuman
Date: April 15, 2012 09:10AM
The direction here is influenced by media that is distorted greatly by posters. It is a full on cattle routine
with little perspective. Guns and unstable individuals in possible crisis situations is the core issue.
People with guns in there hands will kill family, friends and neighbors.

Seeking to make this just racist a issue is flat out ignorant. In Florida they have made a mockery of law enforcement. Justice is about the system . Some people here need to get a grip and focus on the real issues. imnsho
Rudie



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 09:28AM by haikuman.
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