Disgusting. This is my diocese.

[qctimes.com]

An openly gay student at Prince of Peace Catholic School in Clinton says the school is refusing to allow a representative of Iowa’s Matthew Shepard Scholarship program to present his $40,000 award during an upcoming school awards ceremony.

And...

“This policy was explained to Keaton’s parents at their meeting with Bishop Martin Amos last week. It states: ‘We cannot allow any one or any organization which promotes a position that is contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church to present at a diocesan institution,’” the statement reads.

And just what is this horrible "position" that the Eychaner Foundation "promotes"? Gay sex in the hallways of all K-12 buildings in Iowa?

In response, Rich Eychaner of the Eychaner Foundation said its mission is to promote tolerance, understanding and anti-bullying policies.



Yeah, Bishop Amos..that is a HORRIBLE policy to promote in your schools.



You damn idiot.


Ed O’Neill, president of the Prince of Peace school board, said Keaton’s scholarship was discussed at the April 17 school board meeting and nobody expressed any concerns about having someone from the Eychaner Foundation present Keaton with his scholarship.
O’Neill said he was “disappointed and confused” by the diocese’s decision, especially because the school already had given assurance that a representative of the foundation would be allowed to present the scholarship.

And so now, Bishop Amos, you have put your school in the position of having to back out of a written agreement that they had.

Good message there, Bishop.

That is really stupid. The Catholic Church has repeatedly stated that it doesn't find homosexual orientation sinful, just homosexual acts. Unless the school discovered that the student was viewing Cher videos, then I don't know what the problem is.

"Suffer the little children to come unto me."

I wish I understood why the Vatican pushes these ideological messes on us. It's like they're trying to out-Mormon the Mormons.

Can we get the youthful JP II back as Pope ?

Poochies.. Cher Videos ? POMTL !!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 08:02AM by cbelt3.

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the_poochies
That is really stupid. The Catholic Church has repeatedly stated that it doesn't find homosexual orientation sinful, just homosexual acts. Unless the school discovered that the student was viewing Cher videos, then I don't know what the problem is.

Exactly.

By the way, I wonder if any schools in the Davenport diocese have every allowed congressional reps in their school that say take positions contrary to Catholic social teaching on the role of government in helping the poor? I'm guessing that it's just dandy to allow THOSE folks in the hallways...can't catch the gay from them.

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cbelt3
I wish I understood why the Vatican pushes these ideological messes on us. It's like they're trying to out-Mormon the Mormons.

This garbage always comes from fear.

I'm not the slightest bit surprised by this and I find a lot of hope in reading that article.

"Keaton wrote an open letter to the student body and staff, saying that he suffered a lot of anxiety before he “came out” as gay at the small Catholic school. But he “was pleasantly surprised and touched to find that nearly everybody treated me with the same acceptance and respect as they always had,” he wrote."

That is great progress and it shows that people in close relationship with one another can and do resist the hate they've been taught. There is no better cure for homophobia than discovering that a person you've known and liked for many years is gay.

Secondly, of course a Catholic high school is not going to host an openly gay adult speaker. Does anyone have any examples of Catholic high schools which have previously hosted such a speaker at a commencement or other school-wide event? I don't know, just asking. If there is precedent, that could be used to make this student's case.
While I applaud this family's courage and understand the student's disappointment, their shocked reaction seems a bit disingenuous. This is directly in line with Catholic policy and the organization this family has supported for decades with their tuition money and their 3 children's education. Are they surprised to learn about it now? Did they think there had been some major change?

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Lemon Drop

Secondly, of course a Catholic high school is not going to host an openly gay adult speaker.

But it's NOT really a separate "speaker".

They will probably have an awards evening where the local American Legion will give out their award, the local DAR will give their award, this is yet another civic organization giving out THEIR award. The guy will be one of several reps handing out scholarships.

That's why the actual high school, the one who actually DOES this sort of thing every year had no problem with it.

‘We cannot allow any one or any organization which promotes a position that is contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church to present at a diocesan institution,’” the statement reads.


I think somebody at the school didn't think things through before they agreed to this. It won't be the first time a school decided to do something then got shot down by higher administration.

It's really too bad, but that's Catholic world.

I'm stuck with the same thing in Boy Scouts. Locally we don't hate or exclude, but if we get "busted" by higher ups they can push organizational policy. All you can do is keep pushing for change. But you can't be in the organization with those policies in place and act surprised when they are enforced.

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Lemon Drop
‘We cannot allow any one or any organization which promotes a position that is contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church to present at a diocesan institution,’” the statement reads.

And as was pointed out earlier, the thing that this organization PROMOTES (since that is the litmus test, apparently) is "tolerance, understanding and anti-bullying policies".


I wasn't aware that those things (whether supported by this organization, the NAACP or Young Republicans) run contrary to church teaching.

Come on. The organization that sponsors the scholarship promotes tolerance of homosexuals, correct? '
Has the Catholic church become tolerant or understanding of gays and have they stopped bullying as an official policy? I don't think so.
This action is directly in line with Catholic policy. I see no contradiction as far as policy is concerned.

It should make people very uncomfortable and yes we can see the hypocrisy, but they haven't exactly been trying to hide their policy.

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Lemon Drop
Come on. The organization that sponsors the scholarship promotes tolerance of homosexuals, correct? '
Has the Catholic church become tolerant or understanding of gays and have they stopped bullying as an official policy? I don't think so.
This action is directly in line with Catholic policy. I see no contradiction as far as policy is concerned.

It should make people very uncomfortable and yes we can see the hypocrisy, but they haven't exactly been trying to hide their policy.

If you asking me about church teaching (as opposed to the actions of some in the church), then yes the church opposes bullying and believes that homosexuals should be treated with dignity. (Obviously they have things to say about homosexual activity that I disagree with....but we're talking about tolerance and opposition to bullying)

[en.wikipedia.org]

The church has also issued a statement that "urges States to do away with criminal penalties against [homosexual persons],"[8] calling it "grave violations of human rights." It opposes all forms of violence against homosexual people and believes it should be confronted at all levels, but especially at the state level.

[www.dignityusa.org]
What is the official Catholic teaching about homosexuality?
In the mid-1970s, the Vatican recognized the difference between being homosexual and engaging in homogenital (same-sex) acts. Catholic teaching holds that, as a state beyond a person’s choice, being homosexual is not wrong. But just as it is wrong for unmarried heterosexuals to engage in sex, so, too, homogenital acts are wrong.

The Church also teaches understanding and compassion toward gay and lesbian people. In their 1976 statement, To Live in Christ Jesus, the American bishops wrote, “Some persons find themselves through no fault of their own to have a homosexual orientation. Homosexuals, like everyone else, should not suffer from prejudice against their basic human rights. They have a right to respect, friendship, and justice. They should have an active role in the Christian community.… The Christian community should provide them a special degree of pastoral understanding and care.” In 1990, in their instruction, Human Sexuality, the Catholic Bishops repeated this teaching, which is also in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

In 1997, the U.S. Catholic Bishops published Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message to Parents of Homosexual Children and Suggestions for Pastoral Ministers. Addressing lesbians and gay men, the bishops said, “In you God’s love is revealed.” The bishops encouraged families to remain connected when a member revealed his or her homosexuality and called for the establishment of ministries sensitive to the needs of gay and lesbian Catholics and their families.


If the diocese wants to know what the foundation "promotes", they could take a gander at their web site and ask "Does any of this run contrary to what we say about human dignity?"
[www.eychanerfoundation.org]

The Eychaner Foundation is a non-profit organization committed to promoting tolerance and non-discrimination.

The foundation invests in distinguished students through Iowa's Matthew Shepard Scholarship Program and the Howard and Mildred Eychaner Scholarship in De Kalb, Illinois. To date, over two million has been committed in scholarship assistance.

The foundation is dedicated to anti-bullying. In December 2011 the Eychaner Foundation launched reportbullyingiowa.com and has been instrumental in the creation of the Iowa Pride Network and the GLBT Youth In Iowa Schools Task Force.

"The Eychaner Foundation is a non-profit organization committed to promoting tolerance and non-discrimination."

The Catholic church actively promotes intolerance and discrimination against gay families.
They lobby diligently AGAINST gay marriage and adoption by gay couples. They are in direct opposition to the Eychaner Foundation.

Also, the state of Iowa legally prohibits bullying of students in both private and public schools. Therefore "Prince of Peace" could not support bullying of this student even if it wanted to.

Good for the state. They are WAY ahead of the Catholic church.

"Effective September 1, 2007, Iowa Code Chapter 280 requires both public and private schools to establish policies prohibiting harassment and bullying against students by employees, school volunteers, or other students. Students may now seek remedies under both Chapter 216 and Chapter 280."

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Lemon Drop
"The Eychaner Foundation is a non-profit organization committed to promoting tolerance and non-discrimination."

The Catholic church actively promotes intolerance and discrimination against gay families.
They lobby diligently AGAINST gay marriage and adoption by gay couples. They are in direct opposition to the Eychaner Foundation.

Ahhh. So now we have bailed on our discussion of church teaching regarding anti gay bullying and tolerance in SCHOOLS (which of course, is what the scholarship and presentation is all about) and are instead shifting gears to discussing marriage and adoption policies?

Sorry, no thanks.

And to clarify, I have no doubt that the members of the Eychaner Foundation feel differently about gay marriage and adoption than the Catholic Church. I wasn't aware that that was the litmus test. I thought that the litmus test was asking if what the Eychaner Foundation PROMOTES (especially through this scholarship) runs contrary to church teaching.

You're moving the goal post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 09:36AM by beagledave.

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beagledave

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Lemon Drop
"The Eychaner Foundation is a non-profit organization committed to promoting tolerance and non-discrimination."

The Catholic church actively promotes intolerance and discrimination against gay families.
They lobby diligently AGAINST gay marriage and adoption by gay couples. They are in direct opposition to the Eychaner Foundation.

Ahhh. So now we have bailed on our discussion of church teaching regarding anti gay bullying and tolerance in SCHOOLS (which of course, is what the scholarship and presentation is all about) and are instead shifting gears to discussing marriage and adoption policies?

Sorry, no thanks.

And to clarify, I have no doubt that the members of the Eychaner Foundation feel differently about gay marriage and adoption than the Catholic Church. I wasn't aware that that was the litmus test. I thought that the litmus test was asking if what the Eychaner Foundation PROMOTES (especially through this scholarship) runs contrary to church teaching.

You're moving the goal post.

You're pretending that the Catholic church is not one of the most anti-gay, actively bigoted, politically active organizations in the US right now.
You think that school bullying and rejection of families are not related?
What message does it send to a straight (or gay) student whose parents are a gay couple? That they are not legitimate in the eyes of the church? I call that some pretty intense bullying of students and it's exactly the sort of the thing the Eychaner Foundation is AGAINST.

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Lemon Drop
Also, the state of Iowa legally prohibits bullying of students in both private and public schools. Therefore "Prince of Peace" could not support bullying of this student even if it wanted to.

Good for the state. They are WAY ahead of the Catholic church.

"Effective September 1, 2007, Iowa Code Chapter 280 requires both public and private schools to establish policies prohibiting harassment and bullying against students by employees, school volunteers, or other students. Students may now seek remedies under both Chapter 216 and Chapter 280."

Really? So you actually checked the Davenport Diocese's school bullying policy?

[www.davenportdiocese.org]

The board prohibits harassment, bullying, hazing, or any other victimization, of students, based on any of the following actual or
perceived traits or characteristics: age, color, creed, national origin, race, religion, marital status, sex, sexual orientation, gender
identity, physical attributes, physical or mental ability or disability, ancestry, political party preference, political belief,
socioeconomic status, or familial status. Harassment against employees based upon race, color, creed, sex, sexual orientation,
national origin, religion, age or disability is also prohibited.

Why good golly, it's almost as if the Foundation's purpose supports the Diocese's OWN policy on bullying?

Ironic.

"Mary Grassa O’Neill, Secretary for Education and Superintendent of Catholic schools for the Archdiocese of Boston, said they “welcome children based on their parent’s understanding that the teachings of the Church are an important component of the curriculum and are part of the students’ educational experience.”

[www.opposingviews.com]

(Said in response to a Catholic school in Boston refusing to admit children of a gay couple.)

In the same week, the Pope decried same-sex marriage as “insidious and dangerous” while preaching to a crowd of a half a million people in Portugal—a country where a law which made same-sex marriage legal was passed easily by the Parliament and awaits signing by Portugal’s president."

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beagledave

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Lemon Drop
Also, the state of Iowa legally prohibits bullying of students in both private and public schools. Therefore "Prince of Peace" could not support bullying of this student even if it wanted to.

Good for the state. They are WAY ahead of the Catholic church.

"Effective September 1, 2007, Iowa Code Chapter 280 requires both public and private schools to establish policies prohibiting harassment and bullying against students by employees, school volunteers, or other students. Students may now seek remedies under both Chapter 216 and Chapter 280."

Really? So you actually checked the Davenport Diocese's school bullying policy?

[www.davenportdiocese.org]

The board prohibits harassment, bullying, hazing, or any other victimization, of students, based on any of the following actual or
perceived traits or characteristics: age, color, creed, national origin, race, religion, marital status, sex, sexual orientation, gender
identity, physical attributes, physical or mental ability or disability, ancestry, political party preference, political belief,
socioeconomic status, or familial status. Harassment against employees based upon race, color, creed, sex, sexual orientation,
national origin, religion, age or disability is also prohibited.

Why good golly, it's almost as if the Foundation's purpose supports the Diocese's OWN policy on bullying?

Ironic.

The school HAS NOT bullied this student.
They are refusing to allow an adult from an organization with views DIRECTLY OPPOSED to the church to speak at an official school event, which is perfectly in keeping with Catholic policy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 09:49AM by Lemon Drop.

beagledave I think we're in agreement that it's ridiculous and disappointing for the school not to allow the presentation of this prestigious scholarship to a student by a rep of the sponsoring foundation.
In light of Catholic policy where the area of gay rights is concerned however, I find it completely unsurprising.
The best we can hope is that by holding up the mirror to the hypocrisy, things can eventually change.

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Lemon Drop

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beagledave

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Lemon Drop
Also, the state of Iowa legally prohibits bullying of students in both private and public schools. Therefore "Prince of Peace" could not support bullying of this student even if it wanted to.

Good for the state. They are WAY ahead of the Catholic church.

"Effective September 1, 2007, Iowa Code Chapter 280 requires both public and private schools to establish policies prohibiting harassment and bullying against students by employees, school volunteers, or other students. Students may now seek remedies under both Chapter 216 and Chapter 280."

Really? So you actually checked the Davenport Diocese's school bullying policy?

[www.davenportdiocese.org]

The board prohibits harassment, bullying, hazing, or any other victimization, of students, based on any of the following actual or
perceived traits or characteristics: age, color, creed, national origin, race, religion, marital status, sex, sexual orientation, gender
identity, physical attributes, physical or mental ability or disability, ancestry, political party preference, political belief,
socioeconomic status, or familial status. Harassment against employees based upon race, color, creed, sex, sexual orientation,
national origin, religion, age or disability is also prohibited.

Why good golly, it's almost as if the Foundation's purpose supports the Diocese's OWN policy on bullying?

Ironic.

The school HAS NOT bullied this student.
They are refusing to allow an adult from an organization with views DIRECTLY OPPOSED to the church to speak at an official school event, which is perfectly in keeping with Catholic policy.

Umm, I'm not sure where you think that I am claiming that the school bullied the student.

1) The litmus test for this decision is based on what the school promotes...as stated in the release from the bishop:
‘We cannot allow any one or any organization which promotes a position that is contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church to present at a diocesan institution,’”

2) What does the Foundation promote? It says on their website and in the newspaper bit.
The Eychaner Foundation is a non-profit organization committed to promoting tolerance and non-discrimination.

The foundation invests in distinguished students through Iowa's Matthew Shepard Scholarship Program and the Howard and Mildred Eychaner Scholarship in De Kalb, Illinois. To date, over two million has been committed in scholarship assistance.

The foundation is dedicated to anti-bullying. In December 2011 the Eychaner Foundation launched reportbullyingiowa.com and has been instrumental in the creation of the Iowa Pride Network and the GLBT Youth In Iowa Schools Task Force.

3) What does the diocese have to say about this?
The board prohibits harassment, bullying, hazing, or any other victimization, of students, based on any of the following actual or
perceived traits or characteristics: age, color, creed, national origin, race, religion, marital status, sex, sexual orientation, gender
identity, physical attributes, physical or mental ability or disability, ancestry, political party preference, political belief,
socioeconomic status, or familial status. Harassment against employees based upon race, color, creed, sex, sexual orientation,
national origin, religion, age or disability is also prohibited.


So regardless of what members of the foundation believe in terms of gay marriage, global warming or Cher, what the foundation promotes (as stated on then web site) is pretty much in alignment with what the diocese promotes in terms of bullying and tolerance of gay students.


Since that is the ONLY litmus test, the diocese is being hypocritical and cowardly in making this decision.

QED.

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Lemon Drop
beagledave I think we're in agreement that it's ridiculous and disappointing for the school not to allow the presentation of this prestigious scholarship to a student by a rep of the sponsoring foundation.
In light of Catholic policy where the area of gay rights is concerned however, I find it completely unsurprising.
The best we can hope is that by holding up the mirror to the hypocrisy, things can eventually change.

Oh I'm not "surprised" that there are cowardly decision makers in the church.

If I come across as surprised (as opposed to outraged at the hypocrisy) than I haven't communicated very well.

The Catholic Church donated some $400,000 to the North Carolina group that is defending "traditional marriage " via the banning of civil unions, and marriages that are not 1 man 1 woman .

Just in case Catholic tithers are wondering where your money goes in North Carolina.

3P

Quote
threeprong
The Catholic Church donated some $400,000 to the North Carolina group that is defending "traditional marriage " via the banning of civil unions, and marriages that are not 1 man 1 woman .

Just in case Catholic tithers are wondering where your money goes in North Carolina.

3P

I'd like a cite for that. Specifically that a diocese in North Carolina donated $400,000 to a political group.

NOT some Knights of Columbus or other group that happens to have Catholic members in it, but the specific diocese or parish church that donated $400,000.

(I have no doubt that there may be Catholic leaders supporting the amendment, I just doubt the claim of the donation)

I'm quite sure that they did not do that.

I have to say that I would not have allowed my openly gay son, should I have one, to attend a Catholic school in the first place because I am fed up with the Catholic Church's efforts to keep everyone back in the middle ages. Plus the cover ups ticked me off.

The parents probably wanted to take advantage of the education that the school was offering and chose to consort with the church in order to acquire that. Therefore, they made a conscious decision to be part of the problem instead of the solution, and this is the end result.

I'm quite sad that it is this way, but it's a little too late for the parents to be crying, I'm shocked. Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

"The Catholic Dioceses of North Carolina have contributed $100,000 in support of Amendment One, a ballot initiative that goes before voters Tuesday, and if approved, would amend the state constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage.

And now the Raleigh Diocese has sent a mailer titled “Why Traditional Marriage Matters” that is prompting a complaint to the N.C. State Board of Elections, reported the Charlotte News & Observer."
[projects.newsobserver.com]

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Lemon Drop
"The Catholic Dioceses of North Carolina have contributed $100,000 in support of Amendment One, a ballot initiative that goes before voters Tuesday, and if approved, would amend the state constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage.

And now the Raleigh Diocese has sent a mailer titled “Why Traditional Marriage Matters” that is prompting a complaint to the N.C. State Board of Elections, reported the Charlotte News & Observer."
[projects.newsobserver.com]

Thanks.

Well I have to say that I stand corrected. (And am a little surprised that a diocese would make a direct contribution to a political organization. I guess I assumed that there would be legal hurdles to do that, I was obviously wrong about that I guess)

Usually the church would do their own "voter education" effort via flyers or ad campaigns about different issues, as opposed to directly contributing to another organization.

I'm trying to find out what this "donation" means, without much success.

In my mind, suggesting that the Catholic Church "donated" $400,000 (or $100,000) "to the North Carolina group that is defending "traditional marriage "" means that diocesan money was being given to a group OUTSIDE the auspices of the church. (Which is what I originally doubted was happening).

It's not clear to me that that is what is happening in North Carolina.
For example, in Minnesota..one could say that the Church is "donating" $750,000 in support of their own version of Amendment One.

What is really happening is that the "Minnesota Catholic Conference Marriage Defense Fund" has been established to campaign on behalf of that amendment...they aren't taking that money and giving it to some third party group outside the auspices of the church. (FWIW, I still have a problem with that, but it's not the same as taking diocesan collections and giving them to a different group completely separate from the church, like giving it to Romney For President).

If that is what is happening in North Carolina, then my original assertion stands.

If diocesan money was given to a separate entity not part of the church..or under the auspices of the church, then I was wrong.

Beagledave - this story is a disappointment to me as well.

I attended Dowling in Des Moines in the 90s, and while it may not have been the perfect place, it was open, accommodating and generally welcoming. Likewise with the overall dioceses, much of the open JPII theology seemed (to my young eyes at the time, anyway) to be in effect.

That said, it seems to me that a few years after I graduated, things changed. I don't know why, but I'd say that the change in emphasis from DHS to DCHS weirded me out. It seems to have marked a move by the more conservative wing of the local dioceses to exert its will. I make no claims of being an observant catholic, and in fact am non-practicing. I think I received a good secondary education there, and that practicing or not, a number of useful life lessons were imparted, and am open-minded and tolerant of others as a result.

Moves like the one you linked to in the original post, however, affirm my decision to be non-practicing and disillusionment with the catholic church hierarchy, in general.

(end stream of consciousness on catholicism in Iowa)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 12:43PM by Z.

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beagledave
I'm trying to find out what this "donation" means, without much success.

In my mind, suggesting that the Catholic Church "donated" $400,000 (or $100,000) "to the North Carolina group that is defending "traditional marriage "" means that diocesan money was being given to a group OUTSIDE the auspices of the church. (Which is what I originally doubted was happening).

It's not clear to me that that is what is happening in North Carolina.
For example, in Minnesota..one could say that the Church is "donating" $750,000 in support of their own version of Amendment One.

What is really happening is that the "Minnesota Catholic Conference Marriage Defense Fund" has been established to campaign on behalf of that amendment...they aren't taking that money and giving it to some third party group outside the auspices of the church. (FWIW, I still have a problem with that, but it's not the same as taking diocesan collections and giving them to a different group completely separate from the church, like giving it to Romney For President).

If that is what is happening in North Carolina, then my original assertion stands.

If diocesan money was given to a separate entity not part of the church..or under the auspices of the church, then I was wrong.

If the mailer went out to the general public, not just their membership, then they are doing lobbying and politicking, apparently without following North Carolina election law. I can't imagine there could be a complaint to the elections board if this mailing were to their membership only. In that case they can obviously mail whatever they like.

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Lemon Drop

If the mailer went out to the general public, not just their membership, then they are doing lobbying and politicking, apparently without following North Carolina election law. I can't imagine there could be a complaint to the elections board if this mailing were to their membership only. In that case they can obviously mail whatever they like.

I'm not at all familiar with North Carolina state election law. The notion of the church setting up a separate (but connected) entity like the "Minnesota Catholic Conference Marriage Defense Fund" is not really new, though. In my home state of Iowa, it's been done before, buying flyers, newspaper ads, ad time...that sort of thing.


IRS law does not prohibit campaigning for/against legislation, just specific candidates.

[www.claytonnewsstar.com]

Because the amendment is a nonpartisan issue, churches are legally entitled to distribute yard signs and literature. St. Ann’s offered yard signs for people to take home, and Clay said all of the signs have been picked up.

Apparently (at least according to this new source), the church is not violating North Carolina law by distributing flyers, yardsigns etc...

The Catholic entities that made donations were the Charlotte, NC Diocese and the Raleigh, NC diocese each donating $50,000 each. I'll lower my original $400,000 figure to the $100, 000 mark.

The money was donated to the NC Values Coalition. [ncvalues.org] .
A"pro traditional marriage" anti-gay marriage group.

The reason I used the larger $400,000 is that a local election board group had reported tracking donations coming from an event that they thought to be associated with the Catholic church and it's congregation. Later, it was determined that the donation would be listed as donation made by multiple individuals and couldn't be recorded as a donation by a single group.