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Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 05, 2012 09:59AM
Boo hoo. I know. You could hire some women at 77 cents on the dollar to do the extra administrative work.

[www.foxnews.com]
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 05, 2012 10:16AM
women should be at home anyway


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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 05, 2012 10:21AM
Much like the use of illegal immigrants for low pay, ending this kind of cr@p does affect our economy. I'm not defending the practice, but given the nature of business to pinch every last penny at the expense of employees in order to line their executive's pockets, it's easy to imagine lay-offs resulting at companies who "can't afford" to pay fairly. This is just another symptom of something much larger that nobody can agree on how to fix.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 05, 2012 11:25AM
Sometimes you have to just pull the trigger and let the market find its new level.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Pam
Date: June 05, 2012 12:28PM
Unnecessary burden. Horse hockey! What an incredibly poor, insensitive choice of words.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: freeradical
Date: June 05, 2012 12:48PM
Somehow I doubt if we can tell what this bill would do from seven sentences.

However, let's take a look at one of those sentences.

Quote

He says women now earn on average 77 cents for every dollar earned by a man.

The reasons for this are quite complex, but Obama is obviously trying to spin this for political purposes.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 05, 2012 12:50PM
Ya think?


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 05, 2012 01:04PM
The terminology is common and specific legal language to encourage the government (state, local, federal, yadda) to allow this as an 'exclusion' to rules. It's nothing more than setting up protections for future lawsuits.

The economic reality is that the earnings of those of us with more testosterone has been eroding, and will eventually drop to those of you with more estrogen. Of course this is not the goal.. the goal is 'parity' at the top, not at the bottom, C'est l'economie.

Do men earn more than women for the same work ?
Yes. Yes they do.
Is this fair ?
No. No it is not.
Is this a clear indication of the oppression of women throughout history ?
No. Merely relates back to the concept of the economic worth of a person with lower upper body strength in a subsistence farming unmechanized unindustrialized third world type environment.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: June 05, 2012 02:27PM
Quote

OK! OK! Hold it!
I just want to say something.
You know, for every dollar a man makes
a woman makes 63 cents.
Now, fifty years ago that was 62 cents.
So, with that kind of luck, it'll be the year
3,888 before we make
a buck.
- Laurie Anderson, "Beautiful Red Dress"


Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 05, 2012 03:44PM
Quote

No. Merely relates back to the concept of the economic worth of a person with lower upper body strength in a subsistence farming unmechanized unindustrialized third world type environment.

If you think women in an unmechanized unindustrialized third world type environment don't work as hard/harder than men you're fooling yourself.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 05, 2012 03:51PM
p- oh, no question. They just produced less food. And of course biologically the species requires more females than males to produce offspring. Males are fertile 100% of the time. Females .... 10% of the time on average. Basic math.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: dad@home
Date: June 05, 2012 05:34PM
Quote
cbelt3
p- oh, no question. They just produced less food. And of course biologically the species requires more females than males to produce offspring. Males are fertile 100% of the time. Females .... 10% of the time on average. Basic math.

cbelt,
So you, of course, are sharing your thoughts about the fairness of wage and employment discrimination against women with your daughter and your sister the physicist?

And make sure you tell your sister It is ok that she may be denied tenure because of her X chromosome toxicity! After all, she and her eggs are much less valuable to the tribe than your little swimmers.

You are a smart guy........ stop posting junk that that makes you look otherwise.


dad
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: JoeH
Date: June 05, 2012 05:57PM
Quote
cbelt3
They just produced less food.

Actually, research has shown in many agrarian societies women were responsible for more food production than men. So, your statement is not entirely true.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: June 05, 2012 07:01PM
The bill failed to pass in the Senate. Votes fell along party lines as you'd expect.

It was a lousy bill anyway. Too many exemptions.

I don't want the federal government exempted from penalties for discriminatory hiring and salary practices. The government should have greater liability than the private sector. It should set the standard for others to follow.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 05, 2012 07:35PM
Quote
cbelt3
p- oh, no question. They just produced less food. And of course biologically the species requires more females than males to produce offspring. Males are fertile 100% of the time. Females .... 10% of the time on average. Basic math.

Don't forget mos of those women had the nerve to die in childbirth. Having a child is risking your life, and 9 moths of labor, vs 30 seconds of sex for men. Shouldn't they be paid more by the fact alone?

These alien 'woman' things are lucky they have you to explain why they're so inferior.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Avenger
Date: June 05, 2012 08:58PM
Quote
cbelt3


Do men earn more than women for the same work ?
Yes. Yes they do.

Someone didn't tell the White House,

"According to the 2011 annual report on White House staff, female employees earned a median annual salary of $60,000, which was about 18 percent less than the median salary for male employees ($71,000)."
[freebeacon.com]
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 06, 2012 02:36AM
What you're paying for at White House level is somewhat different than what you pay for at work-a-day level, nice try at diversion though.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Avenger
Date: June 06, 2012 07:48AM
What is different? You are saying if you are a woman and you are working at the White House then you can't complain. What logic is at work here and how can you be leading the effort while you are paying your own female workers less? I personally think it is exceedingly difficult to find two people who do exactly the same job. Even though the position may be the same, their duties may be different. Equal pay for equal work is fine and dandy but you are not going to be able to prove two people are doing "equal work".
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Pam
Date: June 06, 2012 09:16AM
Quote
Avenger
Quote
cbelt3


Do men earn more than women for the same work ?
Yes. Yes they do.

Someone didn't tell the White House,

"According to the 2011 annual report on White House staff, female employees earned a median annual salary of $60,000, which was about 18 percent less than the median salary for male employees ($71,000)."
[freebeacon.com]

You can't just post numbers like that without a breakdown by job skill. Of course a female secretary is not going to paid as much as a chief of staff.

The only numbers that matter are apples to apples job position comparisons.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Avenger
Date: June 06, 2012 09:47AM
You are proving my point, Pam. How do you know the 77 cent figure thrown around has taken all this into consideration? We have dozens of secretaries that on the surface appear to have the "same" job. Look closer and they have different responsibilities. And what a coincidence? All of a sudden Democrats have discovered wage disparity 6 months away from election.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 06, 2012 10:15AM
"According to the latest U.S. Census statistics, on average, full-time working women earned 77 cents to every dollar earned by men for equivalent work."

[www.whitehouse.gov]

Now, the next step would be to find the data within the Census itself that supports this, but it's easier just to post crap on a forum.

Edit: Oh, and there's also this: "The very first bill that President Obama signed into law was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which extended the time period in which claimants can bring pay discrimination claims"

So the sudden discovery of wage disparity by the Democrats is not really all that sudden.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 10:18AM by Acer.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: decay
Date: June 06, 2012 10:27AM
it's time to make things equal.

FMLA was put into place for men; it's about time for women to be treated equally.

[www.dol.gov]

those defending lower pay for equal work - how would you feel if men made 77% of pay for THE SAME WORK as women?




[www.giyf.com]
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 06, 2012 10:39AM
This is really an old bill that's been stalled for years, which Senator Barbara Mikulski (who doesn't run for re-election for another four years) re-introduced this month.
[www.napequity.org]

This issue is about Walmart clerks and the folks who clean your office at night, way more than it is about white collar workers in the White House. Trying to discuss whether a 26-year-old payroll clerk should be earning as much as a 50-year-old CPA is a total red herring. US Dept of Labor Statistics show that a male retail clerk earns $620 a week on average compared with $466 for a female retail clerk. THAT'S what this bill is aimed at, not whether or not the retail firm's PR people are all making the same salary. As usual, we have to hear a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with the true aim of the bill.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: decay
Date: June 06, 2012 10:41AM
exactly.

apples to apples.

equal pay for equal work, period.




[www.giyf.com]
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 06, 2012 10:47AM
It's like people think this bill is going to force employers to pay unworthy individuals the same as their worthier counterparts. It's nothing of the kind. It's pretty dry for the most part.

Quote

SUMMARY AS OF:
5/22/2012--Introduced.

Paycheck Fairness Act - Amends the portion of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) known as the Equal Pay Act to revise remedies for, enforcement of, and exceptions to prohibitions against sex discrimination in the payment of wages.

Revises the exception to the prohibition for a wage rate differential based on any other factor other than sex. Limits such factors to bona fide factors, such as education, training, or experience.

States that the bona fide factor defense shall apply only if the employer demonstrates that such factor: (1) is not based upon or derived from a sex-based differential in compensation, (2) is job-related with respect to the position in question, and (3) is consistent with business necessity. Avers that such defense shall not apply where the employee demonstrates that: (1) an alternative employment practice exists that would serve the same business purpose without producing such differential, and (2) the employer has refused to adopt such alternative practice.

Revises the prohibition against employer retaliation for employee complaints. Prohibits retaliation for inquiring about, discussing, or disclosing the wages of the employee or another employee in response to a complaint or charge, or in furtherance of a sex discrimination investigation, proceeding, hearing, or action, or an investigation conducted by the employer.

Makes employers who violate sex discrimination prohibitions liable in a civil action for either compensatory or (except for the federal government) punitive damages.

States that any action brought to enforce the prohibition against sex discrimination may be maintained as a class action in which individuals may be joined as party plaintiffs without their written consent.

Authorizes the Secretary of Labor (Secretary) to seek additional compensatory or punitive damages in a sex discrimination action.

Requires the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) and the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs to train EEOC employees and affected individuals and entities on matters involving wage discrimination.

Authorizes the Secretary to make grants to eligible entities for negotiation skills training programs for girls and women. Directs the Secretary and the Secretary of Education to issue regulations or policy guidance to integrate such training into certain programs under their Departments.

Directs the Secretary to conduct studies and provide information to employers, labor organizations, and the general public regarding the means available to eliminate pay disparities between men and women.

Establishes the Secretary of Labor's National Award for Pay Equity in the Workplace for an employer who has made a substantial effort to eliminate pay disparities between men and women.

Amends the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to require the EEOC to collect from employers pay information data regarding the sex, race, and national origin of employees for use in the enforcement of federal laws prohibiting pay discrimination.

Directs: (1) the Commissioner of Labor Statistics to continue to collect data on woman workers in the Current Employment Statistics survey, (2) the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs to use specified types of methods in investigating compensation discrimination and in enforcing pay equity, and (3) the Secretary to make accurate information on compensation discrimination readily available to the public.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112confused smileyN03220:@@@L&summ2=m& Darn it, bad link. Not sure how to link to it directly. It's bill number S.3220.

The GOP should have let this go through. All they've done is fuel the "war on women" fire, for no good reason.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 11:16AM by $tevie.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Avenger
Date: June 06, 2012 02:18PM
Quote
decay
exactly.

apples to apples.

equal pay for equal work, period.

OK, can you name one employee at your place of work who does EXACTLY what you are doing and is where you are in your career? Why would an employer pay a woman less just because she is a woman. Makes no sense. You can bring a wage discrimination lawsuit without this law. Are there any?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 02:19PM by Avenger.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 06, 2012 03:08PM
You didn't read the synopsis of the bill, did you, Avenger? You have no idea what you are talking about. Also, it's not a law. It's a bill. Go watch Schoolhouse Rock and find out how this works.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Black
Date: June 06, 2012 04:13PM
Any ideas on how to attract a higher caliber of conservatives here?
I'm in for $5 a month if we want to set up some sort of stipend maybe.


MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Pam
Date: June 06, 2012 04:23PM
Quote
Avenger
You are proving my point, Pam. How do you know the 77 cent figure thrown around has taken all this into consideration? We have dozens of secretaries that on the surface appear to have the "same" job. Look closer and they have different responsibilities. And what a coincidence? All of a sudden Democrats have discovered wage disparity 6 months away from election.

Republicans used the same fudging to show federal workers are paid more. Why are you surprised democrats do the same thing?
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 06, 2012 04:44PM
Quote
Black
Any ideas on how to attract a higher caliber of conservatives here?
I'm in for $5 a month if we want to set up some sort of stipend maybe.

I always contended the conservatives here were a cut above other conservatives because they are from a pool of Mac users.
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: john dough
Date: June 06, 2012 10:14PM
The upper crust of lower intellect.


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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: Avenger
Date: June 07, 2012 09:28AM
Quote
$tevie
You didn't read the synopsis of the bill, did you, Avenger?

Matter of fact I did, but not the part you wanted me to read.

"Under the Paycheck Fairness Act, businesses would have had to prove that a wage gap was job related, rather than gender based, and women who sued for discrimination could be awarded punitive damages."

If you ask me this pretty much guarantees women not to be hired in the first place. Why subject yourself to lawsuits? Of course, the natural next step is to write a law mandating businesses to hire women. And don't think they are not thinking about it.

[shine.yahoo.com]
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Re: Women's equal pay bill would "place unnecessary burdens on businesses"
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 07, 2012 11:04AM
"States that the bona fide factor defense shall apply only if the employer demonstrates that such factor: (1) is not based upon or derived from a sex-based differential in compensation, (2) is job-related with respect to the position in question, and (3) is consistent with business necessity."

So, simple intelligence tells us that salary differences not based upon or derived from a sex-based differential in compensation, which are job-related with respect to the position in question, and are consistent with business necessity, are in fact not covered by the bill. In short, if you ain't doing anything wrong you won't get in trouble.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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