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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: Abatis
Date: June 12, 2012 10:41AM
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Pam
Issa wants to keep his name in the media. His staff and the DOJ have been making progress on a compromise.

Well then, the contempt charge should really motivate DoJ to be up front and concilatory regarding the subpeonad documents.

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Dennis S
WTF is Issa doing judging people?

Issa's "judging people"??? All he's doing is his duty as a sworn representitve of the people in his assigned role of Chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

Do you have any claims of impropreity that would exclude Senator Grassley from doing his duty (happening RIGHT NOW11:40am Eastern) questioning Holder on fast and Furious as Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee?

And I should add, Senator Cornyn from Texas just recanting Holder's falsehoods was needed and calling for his resignation on the record was wonderful.

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Dennis S
I guess he knows first-hand about crime, being experienced in car theft, arson, and weapons charges.

Are your insinuations against Issa of more or less concern to you than having a real live tax cheat being head of the Obama Treasury Department? (remember when being a tax cheat seemed to be a prerequsite for being considered for a position in the Obama administration?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2012 10:41AM by Abatis.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: Pam
Date: June 12, 2012 05:32PM
Quote
Abatis
Quote
Pam
Issa wants to keep his name in the media. His staff and the DOJ have been making progress on a compromise.

Well then, the contempt charge should really motivate DoJ to be up front and concilatory regarding the subpeonad documents.

Quote
Dennis S
WTF is Issa doing judging people?

Issa's "judging people"??? All he's doing is his duty as a sworn representitve of the people in his assigned role of Chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

Do you have any claims of impropreity that would exclude Senator Grassley from doing his duty (happening RIGHT NOW11:40am Eastern) questioning Holder on fast and Furious as Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee?

And I should add, Senator Cornyn from Texas just recanting Holder's falsehoods was needed and calling for his resignation on the record was wonderful.

Quote
Dennis S
I guess he knows first-hand about crime, being experienced in car theft, arson, and weapons charges.

Are your insinuations against Issa of more or less concern to you than having a real live tax cheat being head of the Obama Treasury Department? (remember when being a tax cheat seemed to be a prerequsite for being considered for a position in the Obama administration?)

What a bunch of partisan crap. It's grandstanding, plain and simple. Just more of the same us versus them.

And Geithner? You think guys like him do their own accounting and paperwork? You've never made a mistake or omission on your own? Ultimately there was no smoke to show an intentional fire.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 12, 2012 09:03PM
Well, you know what I always say: if cheating on taxes is good enough for a Supreme Court Justice, it's good enough for me.



"You can believe me because I never lie and I'm always right."
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: Abatis
Date: June 12, 2012 09:03PM
Quote
Pam
What a bunch of partisan crap.

Whatever. call it what you like, if it runs the chance of putting handcuffs on Holder I'm all for it.

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Pam
It's grandstanding, plain and simple.

You mean Schumer and Blumenthal and Feinstein??? Geez I know, how pathetic was that? That Schumer and Feinstein happen to be the most anti-gun Senators serving today (Metzenbaum and Kennedy being the worst evah) and they couldn't utter a syllable abut Fast and Furious, even to just elicit another ass-covering self-serving vacillation from Holder, is hypocrisy at its worst.

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Pam
Just more of the same us versus them.

You mean just more of leftists being uncomfortable being pressed to answer questions on their unconstitutional actions and violations of their oaths of office?

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Pam
And Geithner? You think guys like him do their own accounting and paperwork? You've never made a mistake or omission on your own? Ultimately there was no smoke to show an intentional fire.

He signed the return.

TaxcheatTimmy, back when he was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Clinton, fully explained the complexities of the tax liabilities of US employees of the IMF back in 1998:
  • "Most countries in the world impose tax on the worldwide income of individuals on a residence, rather than citizenship, basis. Thus, non-U.S. nationals employed by the Fund outside of their home countries generally do not pay home country income tax on their Fund incomes. However, the United States taxes its citizens regardless of where they are resident; U.S. staff of the Fund are taxed by the United States on their Fund income regardless of where they are located. Arrangements have been made to reimburse employees for income taxes paid to their home countries to put them on an equal footing with staff who do not have to pay home country tax. Of IMF tax reimbursements, 99.5% go to U.S. staff. These reimbursements represent a transfer from the IMF to the U.S. Treasury. In the absence of tax reimbursement, the actual after-tax Fund income of U.S. staff would fall well below both the pay of other IMF staff (that is not taxed) and the after-tax pay of employees in the U.S. public and private sectors. In such circumstances, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for the Fund to recruit or retain well qualified U.S. staff."

So, what are the possibilites here?
  1. Geithner did not understand the testimony he was delivering to Congress, and thus was innocent but ignorant.
  2. Geithner understood it at the time, but suffered severe but temporary memory problems when he joined the IMF a few years later.
  3. Geithner knew exactly what he was doing when he cheated on his taxes, and lied about it.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: Pam
Date: June 12, 2012 09:12PM
Quote
Abatis
Quote
Pam
What a bunch of partisan crap.

Whatever. call it what you like, if it runs the chance of putting handcuffs on Holder I'm all for it.

Quote
Pam
It's grandstanding, plain and simple.

You mean Schumer and Blumenthal and Feinstein??? Geez I know, how pathetic was that? That Schumer and Feinstein happen to be the most anti-gun Senators serving today (Metzenbaum and Kennedy being the worst evah) and they couldn't utter a syllable abut Fast and Furious, even to just elicit another ass-covering self-serving vacillation from Holder, is hypocrisy at its worst.

Quote
Pam
Just more of the same us versus them.

You mean just more of leftists being uncomfortable being pressed to answer questions on their unconstitutional actions and violations of their oaths of office?

Quote
Pam
And Geithner? You think guys like him do their own accounting and paperwork? You've never made a mistake or omission on your own? Ultimately there was no smoke to show an intentional fire.

He signed the return.

TaxcheatTimmy, back when he was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Clinton, fully explained the complexities of the tax liabilities of US employees of the IMF back in 1998:
  • "Most countries in the world impose tax on the worldwide income of individuals on a residence, rather than citizenship, basis. Thus, non-U.S. nationals employed by the Fund outside of their home countries generally do not pay home country income tax on their Fund incomes. However, the United States taxes its citizens regardless of where they are resident; U.S. staff of the Fund are taxed by the United States on their Fund income regardless of where they are located. Arrangements have been made to reimburse employees for income taxes paid to their home countries to put them on an equal footing with staff who do not have to pay home country tax. Of IMF tax reimbursements, 99.5% go to U.S. staff. These reimbursements represent a transfer from the IMF to the U.S. Treasury. In the absence of tax reimbursement, the actual after-tax Fund income of U.S. staff would fall well below both the pay of other IMF staff (that is not taxed) and the after-tax pay of employees in the U.S. public and private sectors. In such circumstances, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for the Fund to recruit or retain well qualified U.S. staff."

So, what are the possibilites here?
  1. Geithner did not understand the testimony he was delivering to Congress, and thus was innocent but ignorant.
  2. Geithner understood it at the time, but suffered severe but temporary memory problems when he joined the IMF a few years later.
  3. Geithner knew exactly what he was doing when he cheated on his taxes, and lied about it.

Why don't you focus your attention and concern on issues that have real substance? This digging for anything that could possibly discredit the current administration is not only tiresome, but talk about bad for the country. Instead of discussing and learning about the real strategies for boosting the economy we get all of this partisan crap to simply sway your vote. Ignorantly people like you fall for it.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 12, 2012 09:16PM
Quote
Pam
This digging for anything that could possibly discredit the current administration is not only tiresome, but talk about bad for the country. Instead of discussing and learning about the real strategies for boosting the economy we get all of this partisan crap to simply sway your vote. Ignorantly people like you fall for it.

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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: john dough
Date: June 13, 2012 07:48AM
Well said, Pam!



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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 13, 2012 06:18PM
He isn't falling for crap so much as eagerly pushing a right-wing political agenda. The only difference between the old Dakota and the new Avenger is his motorcycle was apparently repossessed.

Back on ignore with him.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: Abatis
Date: June 13, 2012 10:28PM
If this is just a right-wing witch hunt why has the DoJ OIG report taken longer to complete than the Warren Report or the Nurenberg Trials?

If this was just a rouge operation cooked up by the Arizona US Attroney and a few ATF agents in the Phoenix office, what the hell is taking so long for the crack self-investigators of the DoJ to clear the upper echelon of command?

NBC Nightly News has finally discovered Fast and Furoius. After ignoring the story for 16 months (CBS broke the story in the mainstream media in Feb 2011), they aired a story last night. That is an amazing development.

That the story has been ignored by the media outlets you guys follow doesn't mean that it isn't news . . . It just means that you guys are only getting the news they want you to hear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 10:40PM by Abatis.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 13, 2012 10:56PM
Unless you personally monitor the big three networks, you are simply passing on disinformation from the right wing noise machine.

PS: This operation was indeed a disaster. Posters here seem more interested in hanging it on someone (preferably from the current administration) than looking into it to see how it developed and went so wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 11:00PM by RgrF.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 14, 2012 12:00AM
It would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you wouldn't recycle stale Sean Hannity talking points from six months ago.

Quote

If this is just a right-wing witch hunt why has the DoJ OIG report taken longer to complete than the Warren Report or the Nurenberg Trials?



"You can believe me because I never lie and I'm always right."
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: Abatis
Date: June 14, 2012 05:43AM
Quote
RgrF
Unless you personally monitor the big three networks, you are simply passing on disinformation from the right wing noise machine.

Just go to NBC/MSNBC and do a search for "Fast and Furious' and see what AND WHEN the results show.

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RgrF
PS: This operation was indeed a disaster. Posters here seem more interested in hanging it on someone (preferably from the current administration) than looking into it to see how it developed and went so wrong.

Nothing went wrong except for it being exposed and that happened because of the death of a US Border Agent and whistleblowers being disgusted and exposing the operation.

The singular intent of the operation was to put thousands of AK-47 and AR-15 variants, FN pistols and 50 cal sniper rifles in the hands of the Sinoloa Cartel, have these weapons be used in crime and found at crime scenes, traced back to "legitimate" US retail sales to advance the agenda of more restrictive gun regulations on US retail sales.

On the other side, (Zeta Cartel), the US State Department, in 2009, increased ten fold the number of military weapons sold the the Mexican police and military knowing full well that their own audits have shown a 26% diversion rate from governemnt and police to the zeta cartel (which consists of deserted military and police). 26% of 18,000 in one year is a lot more than the 1700 that were given to the cartels in Fast and Furious. The State Department refuses to release the number of guns sold to Mexico in 2010 and 2011.

Again, the intent of arming the cartels was to have a tidal wave of US sourced guns showing up at narco-terrorist crime scenes on both sides of the border so more gun control and in a perfect scenerio, a reinstatement of the Assault Weapons ban could be enacted.

There really is no other explanation for the policy of no interdiction / arrest and letting the guns flow to Mexico without any means of following them or any knowledge of Mexican authorities.

It was a criminal enterprise intended to support gun rights restrictions in the USA.

Blaming these facts on a right-wing agenda to go after the administration doen't deflect the culpability of the Obama administration.

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$tevie
It would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you wouldn't recycle stale Sean Hannity talking points from six months ago.

LOL . . . Are you for real?

"Six months ago" the comparison wouldn't have been true . . . Now it is.

What a pathetic, profoundly blind to facts and reason deflection . . . I just picture you sitting in front of your monitor with your fingers in your ears repeating

"RIGHT WING NOISE MACHINE""RIGHT WING NOISE MACHINE""RIGHT WING NOISE MACHINE""RIGHT WING NOISE MACHINE""RIGHT WING NOISE MACHINE"

I actually watch the MSNBC talking heads; Hannity and Beck and Rush really don't have much to offer to me. I don't need to have my opinions shaped or validated; I much prefer them challenged. . . .
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 14, 2012 09:38AM
The comparison was made six months ago. By everyone in the right wing blogosphere. So rather than imitating someone's meme, I guess you came up with it a day late and a dollar short.



"You can believe me because I never lie and I'm always right."
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 14, 2012 09:41AM
Quote
Abatis
I actually watch the MSNBC talking heads; Hannity and Beck and Rush really don't have much to offer to me. I don't need to have my opinions shaped or validated; I much prefer them challenged. . . .

Well, watching cable news talking heads of any variety sure as hell doesn't impress me.

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Abatis
I just picture you sitting in front of your monitor with your fingers in your ears repeating

That's funny, because I picture you running around the internet getting all this information from blogs, and then tracing it back to CBS News so you look like you found it all yourself.

Whoops, I just noticed that most of your articles are by Sharyl Attkisson, the right wing's MSM darling.

I can't figure out if you are a forum regular who assumed a nom de plume specifically for this thread, or if you have Asperger's Disorder and are simply incapable of discussing any other topic on either side of this forum. Or were you Googling Eric Holder to find forums to diss him on?



"You can believe me because I never lie and I'm always right."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2012 10:08AM by $tevie.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: swampy
Date: June 14, 2012 11:33AM
I've been dissing Eric Holder since the Marc Rich debacle.





If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 14, 2012 01:07PM
Remind me again, what skin color is Eric holder?
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Re: Eric Holder and DoJ on Fast and Furious
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 14, 2012 01:08PM
Quote
RgrF
Remind me again, what skin color is Eric holder?

The scary one.



"You can believe me because I never lie and I'm always right."
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