Once again this administration bypasses our democratic form of government and issues a fiat. No discussion. Boom, new law.

I don't even want to get into the meat of Janet Nepalitano's immigration decree. I'm still stuck on the process.

And a question for the black folks here. What impact do you foresee for young black citizens seeking employment?

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

What are you saying? That hispanics and blacks compete for jobs that are "beneath" whites? Because that's what it sounds like.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

It's not a law, it's a policy, which can be reversed by a future administration without discussion.

In 1948, Harry Truman desegregated the armed forces by executive order. But I imagine Swampy would have been against that as well.

---

[www.flickr.com] [picasaweb.google.com]

Quote
swampy
Once again this administration bypasses our democratic form of government and issues a fiat. No discussion. Boom, new law.

You mean like how Bush and his cronies declared war on Iraq and subsequently plunged us over a trillion dollars in debt?

It's nice to see swampy taking up for the black folks.

Quote
swampy
.

And a question for the black folks here. What impact do you foresee for young black citizens seeking employment?

not much
it's not like 800,000 people are going to be dumped into the job market overnite
they're already there, many working




3 and 1/2 years late, though, dontcha think ?

---

Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
swampy
And a question for the black folks here. What impact do you foresee for young black citizens seeking employment?

Wow! Just Wow! Shout out to the ancien regime, swampster!

I am looking forward to Mr. Romney's response. I wonder what is taking so long?

---

Where's School House Rock when you need it?

Quote
swampy
Boom, new law.

Boom, wrong!


I guess we can scratch civics from the potential list of subjects that swampy allegedly taught.

What are we down to now? Gym and Home Ec.?

Another post from the forum's 2nd most dishonest poster (was in first until the übertroll was allowed back in).

---

I think Obama's just making sure Romney has as much of a mess to clean up as he had.

---

Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Carnos Jax

Quote
swampy
Once again this administration bypasses our democratic form of government and issues a fiat. No discussion. Boom, new law.

You mean like how Bush and his cronies declared war on Iraq and subsequently plunged us over a trillion dollars in debt?

You know, CJ, you always toss that canard out there never mentioning all the liberal Dems on Capital Hill that voted in favor of Mr. Bush's war in Iraq. You really need to quit whining about Bush. He's been gone for 3.5 years.

$tevie, I never said anything about jobs being "beneath" anyone.YOU brought that up. I can only speak to farm labor in my area, but prior to this, blacks had some advantage over illegals because their citizenship and labor bosses would hire them instead of illegals to avoid prosecution under federal laws preventing hiring illegals. Under this fiat, blacks will lose that advantage.

Lux, an executive order or announced policy has the same effect as law until Congress can over ride it. Boom, new law.

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

Sorry, swampy, it still sounds as if you think the only impact is going to be on black workers. Which is weird to me.

I also fail to see how this is a "farm worker" issue. This change in policy is directed towards the children of illegal immigrants: those who came in at less than 16 years of age, are now less than 30 years of age, lived here no less than five years, and who have a high school degree or GED, and/or served or are serving in the military. And yet you seem to think that they all want to be berry pickers?

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2012 01:27PM by $tevie.

Quote
$tevie
Sorry, swampy, it still sounds as if you think the only impact is going to be on black workers. Which is weird to me.

I also fail to see how this is a "farm worker" issue. This change in policy is directed towards the children of illegal immigrants: those who came in at less than 16 years of age, are now less than 30 years of age, lived here no less thanb five years, and who have a high school degree or GED, and/or served or are serving in the military. And yet you seem to think that they all want to be berry pickers?

Black people aren't giving a flip about losing a job to a Latino person. The biggest problem in young black person land is if you make a mistake and have spent any time being a part of the "system" then you have to mention it on applications. Job programs in urban and rural areas targeting these young people is what is needed.

Quote
swampy
Under this fiat, blacks will lose that advantage.

Why aren't white citizens losing the advantage?

Where were all these willling and able citizens when Alabama cracked down on illegals?

Quote
swampy

Quote
Carnos Jax

Quote
swampy
Once again this administration bypasses our democratic form of government and issues a fiat. No discussion. Boom, new law.

You mean like how Bush and his cronies declared war on Iraq and subsequently plunged us over a trillion dollars in debt?

You know, CJ, you always toss that canard out there never mentioning all the liberal Dems on Capital Hill that voted in favor of Mr. Bush's war in Iraq. You really need to quit whining about Bush. He's been gone for 3.5 years.

Swampy, I toss it out there because you never seem to realize this yourself, otherwise how is it that you are outraged at what Obama supposedly did? On top of that, I don't mention the Democrats supposed cullpability because you should know full well that Bush took advantage of the emotional state of the country after the 9/11 to goad the Democrats into "voting this way" (as you would put it). You can't possibly be this ignorant so I can only conclude you're being deliberately deceptive (and considering the nature of some...though not all...of your posts, this does not surprise me). And the ultimate irony is that one of the ultimate whiners is calling me a whiner. But I still love u baby...;-)

Vision
Black people aren't giving a flip about losing a job to a Latino person. The biggest problem in young black person land is if you make a mistake and have spent any time being a part of the "system" then you have to mention it on applications. Job programs in urban and rural areas targeting these young people is what is needed.

What, whites yellows and browns don't have to declare their arrest record when applying for a job? Bogus argument.

Carnos...you call it an emotional state (after 9/11) and I call it a state of heightened awareness. None-the- less, Congress and the Senate backed Bush. It probably disappoints you that the liberal Congress critters did so, but that is truth. They not only supported Bush, but so did the coalition nations who were working from the same WMD intelligence and considering the same United Nations ignored mandates. My whine comes not so much from being in Iraq as from the conduct of the was and the length of time it took to introduce the surge.

Luv you too, baby.

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

For all intents and purposes there was no coalition in Iraq. Other than a paltry few others, it was a unilateral action undertaken by Bush.

People were still in shock after 9/11. They didn't have a time to rationally decide about Iraq, especially when Bush rushed the agenda. No politician risked their re-election chances due to the pseudo patriotism paraded around by the Republicans. That's why they voted that way.

There was no credible WMD intelligence, that's why no other nation joined us (practically speaking) as they had in the first Iraq war and Afghanistan.

And since when did you start being such a staunch supporter of UN mandates? I thought you detested them. Can't have it both ways you know, otherwise people will think you're irrational. Besides, you do realize that we're in violation of some UN mandates, right? You wouldn't want the UN to invade us over some piddly mandates, do you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2012 02:35PM by Carnos Jax.

I would bet that most people that get outraged at people "attacking" the GOP are the same ones most impacted by the crap that the GOP does. If someone can explain to me why ANYONE in the middle class votes for a Republican, please explain it to us, as I have yet to hear an intelligent answer to why.

I get that some people in the middle class do not like Democrat politicians, for whatever reason, but to vote Republican, EVER, is something that is beyond comprehension.

CJ, you have to excuse Swamp; she likes to revise history to the Fox news version of events, but we all know better. Before you know it, she will be saying that we were actually embraced as liberators in Iraq and that Cheney did more good than not.

---

Quote
john dough
... Before you know it, she will be saying that we were actually embraced as liberators in Iraq and that Cheney did more good than not.

We were and he did. Didn't you know that? Where have you been?



































:::ducking:::

Let's see. FIrst he decides not enforce DOMA now this. Never thought presidency is so much fun.

how many Americans have died because of it?

---

[www.giyf.com]

Think of these immigrants as spenders. Perhaps the white, yellow, brown and black people who don't want to pick berries can sell goods and services to those who do.

If being a spender qualifies someone to come in and stay in this country, I personally know of 6 who can fly in here tomorrow. What do you say?

Quote
Avenger
If being a spender qualifies someone to come in and stay in this country, I personally know of 6 who can fly in here tomorrow. What do you say?

Have them donate a few Mil to the DNC. They'll be in

Quote
Avenger
If being a spender qualifies someone to come in and stay in this country, I personally know of 6 who can fly in here tomorrow. What do you say?

You should have brought them in when Bush was president.

The trolls never pressed Bush on anything and defended his failures with vigor. Obama will as much as wear the "wrong" tie and they get their underwear in a knot.

Obama has a long, long, LONG way to fall before he is in Bush/Cheney territory.





It is tough to dig America out of the hole that the worst president in our lifetime dug for him.

---

Quote
swampy

Quote
Carnos Jax

Quote
swampy
Once again this administration bypasses our democratic form of government and issues a fiat. No discussion. Boom, new law.

You mean like how Bush and his cronies declared war on Iraq and subsequently plunged us over a trillion dollars in debt?

You know, CJ, you always toss that canard out there never mentioning all the liberal Dems on Capital Hill that voted in favor of Mr. Bush's war in Iraq.

Once again Swampy lies slants the truth to serve her own purposes.

Party Ayes Nays PRES No Vote
Republican 215 6 0 2
Democratic 82 126 0 1
Independent 0 1 0 0
TOTALS 297 133 0 3
126 (61%) of 208 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.
6 (<3%) of 223 Republican Representatives voted against the resolution: Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).
The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)
Reps. Ortiz (D-TX), Roukema (R-NJ), and Stump (R-AZ) did not vote on the resolution.
United States Senate
Party Ayes Nays No Vote
Republican 48 1 0
Democratic 29 21 0
Independent 0 1 0
TOTALS 77 23 0
21 (42%) of 50 Democratic senators voted against the resolution: Sens. Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), and Wyden (D-OR).
1 (2%) of 49 Republican senators voted against the resolution: Sen. Chafee (R-RI).
The only Independent senator voted against the resolution: Sen. Jeffords (I-VT)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2012 03:33AM by RgrF.

Thanks for pointing that out. The best defense against a liar troll is to correct them with the truth.

Doubt this (and countless other corrections) will change any behavior of her or the other(s) though.

---

The Iraq resolution passed both House and Senate with bipartisan support.

Who's trying to rewrite history here?

[en.wikipedia.org]

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

While I don't have a problem with the ends here, I am concerned about the means. I'm not excited about the President making it a habit to make end-runs around even a recalcitrant Congress. I'm afraid that the next guy will use it to do something truly stupid or dangerous.

That said, is there a mechanism by which the Supreme Court can balance executive orders?

Quote
swampy
Vision
Black people aren't giving a flip about losing a job to a Latino person. The biggest problem in young black person land is if you make a mistake and have spent any time being a part of the "system" then you have to mention it on applications. Job programs in urban and rural areas targeting these young people is what is needed.

What, whites yellows and browns don't have to declare their arrest record when applying for a job? Bogus argument.

You weren't talking about whites yellows and browns, now were you? You specifically talked about blacks. You skipped whites yellows and browns in your initial Wow! Just wow! As if the only people affected would be blacks.

You really need to be honest. Because the deep seated prejudices that you harbor are legal for to have and express. Why couch it? Be honest.

You were. RgrF pointed it out. If you cannot accept it, tough. Your premise is a moving target and when proven wrong, you just make something else up.

---

Game, Set, Match to RgrF. You are pwned, swampster.

Here is what I said...

$tevie, I never said anything about jobs being "beneath" anyone.YOU brought that up. I can only speak to farm labor in my area, but prior to this, blacks had some advantage over illegals because their citizenship and labor bosses would hire them instead of illegals to avoid prosecution under federal laws preventing hiring illegals. Under this fiat, blacks will lose that advantage.

The farm labor in central Florida is primarily black and latino. I can't speak to others so I didn't.

Look, you guys either don't read my posts or you just like putting or taking words out of my posts. It really makes you look like the stupid ones.

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

Here is what you said, verbatim:

Quote
swampy
You know, CJ, you always toss that canard out there never mentioning all the liberal Dems on Capital Hill that voted in favor of Mr. Bush's war in Iraq.

No one is putting words in your mouth, you said this and it is not true; this is what is known as revising history (regardless of your belief to the contrary).

You are entitled to be the forum harpy but don't @#$%& when you get caught making things up. It is not the person pointing out your mistake that is the problem.

---

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2012 01:46PM by john dough.

ALL as in more than one or two. Stop being so obtuse.

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

Can we come up with a better word than "illegals?"

The Senate vote sharply divided Democrats, with 29 voting for the measure and 21 against. All Republicans except Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island voted for passage.

Ahead of the vote, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle announced Thursday morning he would support Bush on Iraq, saying it is important for the country "to speak with one voice at this critical moment."

Daschle, D-South Dakota, said the threat of Iraq's weapons programs "may not be imminent. But it is real. It is growing. And it cannot be ignored." However, he urged Bush to move "in a way that avoids making a dangerous situation even worse."
Daschle had expressed reservations about a possible U.S. attack on Iraq, and he was not part of an agreement between the White House and other congressional leaders framing the resolution last week.

Sen. Robert Byrd, D-West Virginia, attempted Thursday to mount a filibuster against the resolution but was cut off on a 75 to 25 vote.

[www.democraticunderground.com]

Sorry I meant to include this in my last post

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

Quote
vision63
]

You weren't talking about whites yellows and browns, now were you? You specifically talked about blacks. You skipped whites yellows and browns in your initial Wow! Just wow! As if the only people affected would be blacks.

You really need to be honest. Because the deep seated prejudices that you harbor are legal for to have and express. Why couch it? Be honest.

And to yor point I didn't TALK about blacks. I ASKED A QUESTION about blacks because blacks are germane to MY rural location and would be most affected by all this.

Simply asking an opinion from blacks in this forum makes me prejudice? Who the he'll are you to judge me anyway?

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

"Who the he'll are you to judge me anyway?'
I only really saw one post of yours Swampy that leads me to this conclusion, but 'I' am the person in the dark who would shoot you before asking questions.
That's who 'I' am.

Who are you?

Posted by: swampy [PM] [Ignore this user]
Date: June 05, 2012 08:45AM

"Since I don't drive after dark and seldom, if ever put myself in dangerous situations, I think the only place I'd ever need protection under the law would be my own home. I do have a gun and would not hesitate to use it if someone intrudes on me and I'd not be asking any questions first nor will I be checking first to see if they are facing me.

Sorry if that bothers you. Have a nice day."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2012 03:33PM by Manlove.

To those like Swampy, calling them on their bs is not being obtuse, it is holding their words accountable. You picked your words specifically to push your point of view alone, not be historically accurate. The fact that you got caught spreading your opinion as what really happened and got caught is your problem; to call someone else a name at this point is flat out lame.

Yes, some liberals voted along with Bush on the invasion of Iraq; shame on them for agreeing with such a terrible plan. History has shown that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and we wasted a moment in history to follow the lead of a terrible president and his cronies.

We might as well say all Republicans from Florida are liars, racists and bigots. There are at least on or a few of them out there so lets lump them into the same pile, shall we?

---

Quote

What impact do you foresee for young black citizens seeking employment?

is not the same thing as

Quote

I can only speak to farm labor in my area, but prior to this, blacks had some advantage over illegals because their citizenship and labor bosses would hire them instead of illegals to avoid prosecution under federal laws preventing hiring illegals. Under this fiat, blacks will lose that advantage.

If you wanted to discuss farm labor in your region of the country, okie dokie then. But as originally written, your statement clearly implies that A) all these immigrants are hispanic, B) all these immigrants are farm laborers, and C) only the jobs of black people will be taken by these immigrants. Who, incidentally, already live here <snark>and so presumably have ALREADY stolen all the jobs available to them</snark>.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

$tevie,I was speaking of farm labor in my area and I said so. Why was that not clear to you?

Man love, the post was not addressed to you. And I would expect to be shot if I entered anyone's ( your) home without permission.

John Dough... Yes, some liberals voted along with Bush on the invasion of Iraq So you DO agree with me. Thank you for manning up and saying so.

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

"Yes, some liberals voted along with Bush on the invasion of Iraq..." - swampy

Yes, for two reasons:

1. A majority of Americans are so rabid, so quick-triggered, so "let's put a boot up their ass", that almost every politician is afraid to try to reason with them because they'll be called "unpatriotic, wimps, traitors,", etc. and voted out

2. The congressmen had absolutely no indication or clue yet that Bush would turn out to be the incompetent boob and liar he was

Yes, I agree that it was shameful not just for Democrats but for all Americans that we went to war based on bald-faced lies and that so many people died for nothing. It was doubly shameful that Bush and co. sent them there without proper equipment and after the wounded came home, let them suffer in substandard hospitals (and then had the hubris to blame the conditions at Walter Reed on anyone else). Yet ANOTHER case of direct incompetence. There are many reasons that W is considered one of the worst presidents, ever.

You are still on the hook for saying one specific thing and saying that you meant another after you were proven wrong.

Thanks Dennis for pointing out that during that dark time, people voted as a bloc NOT because they agreed with it, they did it to show unity so that they can bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice. Little did we know that the administration was lying through its teeth to get a different agenda accomplished.

Back to the OP; did you get upset when there were no-bid contracts where (not surprisingly) people that were heavy funders of the Bush/Cheney campaigns made billions of dollars? In all of those years where unprecedented amounts of money was changing hands without review, not once did I hear a peep from the righties here, ESPECIALLY not Swampy or Dakota/Avenger, the biggest sycophants for the GOP here.

When Obama is wanting to better the lives of (mostly) the poor, this gets the righties in a bunch. Shows you the true caliber of person that is eager to slam the poor and defend groups they will never be part of (the rich).

---

Quote
john dough
To those like Swampy, calling them on their bs is not being obtuse, it is holding their words accountable. You picked your words specifically to push your point of view alone, not be historically accurate. The fact that you got caught spreading your opinion as what really happened and got caught is your problem; to call someone else a name at this point is flat out lame.

The only problem being that you're trying to paint her as having said that "all liberal democrats voted for the Iraq invasion" and that's not what she said.
Calling folks on BS is great, but be sure your reading comprehension is in place first.

---

MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]

Quote
Black

Quote
john dough
To those like Swampy, calling them on their bs is not being obtuse, it is holding their words accountable. You picked your words specifically to push your point of view alone, not be historically accurate. The fact that you got caught spreading your opinion as what really happened and got caught is your problem; to call someone else a name at this point is flat out lame.

The only problem being that you're trying to paint her as having said that "all liberal democrats voted for the Iraq invasion" and that's not what she said.
Calling folks on BS is great, but be sure your reading comprehension is in place first.

Give me one reason why Romney will make a better President.

---

Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
billb

Give me one reason why Romney will make a better President.

We have to elect him to find out.