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Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Spock
Date: June 25, 2012 04:37PM
In a Christian Fundamentalist Madrasah somewhere in darkest Louisiana children are being indoctrinated with this anti-science nonsense.

Quote

One ACE textbook – Biology 1099, Accelerated Christian Education Inc – reads: "Are dinosaurs alive today? Scientists are becoming more convinced of their existence. Have you heard of the 'Loch Ness Monster' in Scotland? 'Nessie' for short has been recorded on sonar from a small submarine, described by eyewitnesses, and photographed by others. Nessie appears to be a plesiosaur."

Another claim taught is that a Japanese whaling boat once caught a dinosaur. It's unclear if the movie Godzilla was the inspiration for this lesson.

The textbooks in the series are alleged to teach young earth creationism; are hostile towards other religions and other sectors of Christianity, including Roman Catholicism; and present a biased version of history that is often factually incorrect.

[www.heraldscotland.com]

At least it isn't Florida.





Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 04:49PM by Spock.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: hal
Date: June 25, 2012 04:48PM
AWESOME!! and the state provides the funding for this brainwashing...

"Private religious schools, including the Eternity Christian Academy in Westlake, Louisiana, which follows the ACE curriculum, have already been cleared to receive the state voucher money transferred from public school funding, thanks to a bill pushed through by state Governor Bobby Jindal."
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 25, 2012 04:54PM
Oh relax . These people are editing themselves out of the scientifically successful population. And will therefore be an irrelevant force in the economy of the future.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Pops
Date: June 25, 2012 05:01PM
Quote
cbelt3
These people are editing themselves out of the scientifically successful population. And will therefore be an irrelevant force in the economy of the future.
I only wish that were true. I fear that for my grandchildren, it may be the opposite. Ignorance is so rampant in the United States that it frightens me.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: hal
Date: June 25, 2012 05:03PM
Quote
cbelt3
Oh relax . These people are editing themselves out of the scientifically successful population. And will therefore be an irrelevant force in the economy of the future.

they don't use birth control! You obviously haven't seen Idiocracy...
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: June 25, 2012 05:15PM
Dinosaurs ARE alive today.

You probably ate one last week.

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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: davester
Date: June 25, 2012 05:43PM
Quote
Chakravartin
Dinosaurs ARE alive today.

You probably ate one last week.


...and guess what...it tastes just like chicken.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 05:47PM by davester.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 25, 2012 05:43PM
Thats just stupid.

What is offensive is this excerpt from an ACE history textbook put out by Bob Jones University:

"the [Ku Klux] Klan in some areas of the country tried to be a means of reform, fighting the decline in morality and using the symbol of the cross ... In some communities it achieved a certain respectability as it worked with politicians."



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: davester
Date: June 25, 2012 05:46PM
Quote
hal
Quote
cbelt3
Oh relax . These people are editing themselves out of the scientifically successful population. And will therefore be an irrelevant force in the economy of the future.

they don't use birth control! You obviously haven't seen Idiocracy...

That's for sure. They vote, they breed, and they breed ignorance. The nation is rapidly transforming into a science-averse theocracy and economically will stand little chance against the rest of the world if this continues into the future.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: June 25, 2012 05:49PM
I think we need to develop a new term -- maybe call this a Lilly -- as in the Lilly Tomlin remark that "No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up."

How can this be parodied? No comedian would touch it because it's so unbelievable.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: rgG
Date: June 25, 2012 06:28PM
Quote
Ombligo
Thats just stupid.

What is offensive is this excerpt from an ACE history textbook put out by Bob Jones University:

"the [Ku Klux] Klan in some areas of the country tried to be a means of reform, fighting the decline in morality and using the symbol of the cross ... In some communities it achieved a certain respectability as it worked with politicians."

When you said Bob Jones University, I knew whatever it was had no credibility at all.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Manlove
Date: June 25, 2012 06:43PM
I'm not saying a word!
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Manlove
Date: June 25, 2012 06:45PM
(Although, I do wonder how many of the young earthers own guns as a percentage of the population at large!)
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: hal
Date: June 25, 2012 07:03PM
you really are obsessed with guns aren't you?
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Manlove
Date: June 25, 2012 07:04PM
Aw c'mon, that was a joke.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: davester
Date: June 25, 2012 07:07PM
Americans are not attuned to british-style humor.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: June 25, 2012 07:17PM
Quote
cbelt3
Oh relax . These people are editing themselves out of the scientifically successful population. And will therefore be an irrelevant force in the economy of the future.

I hope you don't really think that is true.

These people are taking over our government, making ALL of us part of a scientifically unsuccessful population.



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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: hal
Date: June 25, 2012 07:48PM
Here's the intro to Idiocracy - the idea of it and the first few minutes are the best part of the movie - the telling of the story is... boring...

[www.videobash.com]
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: August West
Date: June 25, 2012 07:51PM
Quote

Americans are not attuned to british-style humor.

Who is?
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 25, 2012 08:02PM
"Another claim taught is that a Japanese whaling boat once caught a dinosaur. It's unclear if the movie Godzilla was the inspiration for this lesson."

That writer in Scotland could've done a little more research. They are referring to the 1977 Zuiyo-maru incident, in which a Japanese fishing vessel pulled in a decaying carcass that biologists at first couldn't identify, spawning rumors that it was a plesiosaur.
Turned out to be a basking shark.
Like Nessie, it's a story with legs with which conspiracy theorists (or creationists) can have a field day.
Teaching that sort of stuff as fact borders on abuse of a child's mind, IMO.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 25, 2012 08:07PM
Quote
Manlove
Aw c'mon, that was a joke.

The article is humorous, but the text and teaching to which they refer is 100% serious. ACE is a real curriculum, taught to real students in the US and other countries (most likely including the UK, where creationism has a hold as well.)
[aceweb.schooloftomorrow.com]#
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Manlove
Date: June 25, 2012 08:29PM
"...most likely including the UK, where creationism has a hold as well."

If true (and I haven't lived there for 15 years) I can only hope that it's a finger tip hold in a free climb situation, and that the climber weighs 300lbs and has never actually mountain climbed, as opposed to the American version where there is an escalator to the top of the cliff and free coffee and cookies for all!

Seriously, America is a little early 14th Century about this whole god thing.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: decay
Date: June 25, 2012 08:38PM
Nessie is just as provable as miracles and stories in the Bible.

which is to say NOT AT ALL!

hearsay is enough for Creatonists.



---
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Spock
Date: June 25, 2012 08:44PM
Quote
decay
Nessie is just as provable as miracles and stories in the Bible.

which is to say NOT AT ALL!

The bible was written when and by whom and is any part of it verifiable?



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 25, 2012 08:47PM
Quote
Manlove
"...most likely including the UK, where creationism has a hold as well."

If true (and I haven't lived there for 15 years) I can only hope that it's a finger tip hold in a free climb situation, and that the climber weighs 300lbs and has never actually mountain climbed, as opposed to the American version where there is an escalator to the top of the cliff and free coffee and cookies for all!

Seriously, America is a little early 14th Century about this whole god thing.

You might be little disappointed then. Last time I saw that surveyed (this is from '09) 15% of Brits held to creationism, and another 15% to intelligent design. Not a huge number but also not insignificant.
[www.guardian.co.uk]
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Manlove
Date: June 25, 2012 09:03PM
I don't particularly like the IQ test as an indicator of general intelligence but (another leap coming), I would guess that the 15% (or 30%) are somewhere, on average, well below 100 IQ points. Stupid people do breed, we can't stop them, we can make laws so that their ideas don't become too prevalent i.e. separation of church and state (ha!), but we can't just round them up in a field and bomb the crap out of them.

I have no soulution!

Just looked at the map and Wales is not a very bright country it seems! Apologies to any Welsh forumites.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 25, 2012 09:23PM
You might find this interesting.

Who are the British creationists?

As a group they are politically strong and well-funded. Not the stuff of the below average intelligence crowd. Also not the sole province of evangelical Christians; conservative Jews and Muslims are in the mix too.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: decay
Date: June 25, 2012 09:41PM
7 reasons you can trust the Bible.

[incaseoftherapture.com]

1. Historical Accuracy. All of the world history reported in the Bible has been proven to be accurate. Bible critics used to question some things; for example the existence of the city of Nineveh and the existence of one of the Assyrian kings mentioned, until archeological digs confirmed them. Nothing in the Bible has ever been proven to be inaccurate or false.

ORLY?



---
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: June 25, 2012 10:02PM
Quote
decay
7 reasons you can trust the Bible....

Man, that's funny!!

...the Bible reads through with incredible harmony – almost like a novel by your favorite writer – which is its own miracle right there in front of you. Only God could pull that off.

Two competing origin stories with completely different styles and completely different cultural assumptions in the first two chapters of Genesis.

God needs copy editors!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 10:04PM by Chakravartin.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 25, 2012 10:34PM
That's why "Christianity" needs more Catholics and fewer nitwits. We're OK with evolution, etc. It's cool. No problemo. Yeah... we hassled that Galileo guy. Our bad. Sorry. Long time ago.

Science and religion should be friends. The anti science crowd annoys the hell out of me. If you believe that "God made us" (through evolution or some Erich von Daniken thingy), then you also believe that mankind's scientific discoveries are cool with God.

Believing that the human race is somehow against 'god's will' should theoretically make us all disappear. Poof. Problem solved. Start back over with some semi-intelligent being that is willing to worship their god properly. Dogs would be good for that. Never cats.
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Manlove
Date: June 25, 2012 10:37PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
You might find this interesting.

Who are the British creationists?

As a group they are politically strong and well-funded. Not the stuff of the below average intelligence crowd. Also not the sole province of evangelical Christians; conservative Jews and Muslims are in the mix too.

It was interesting but I read the article somewhat differently to you. To be fair, anyone of any religious persuasion can be wrong...equal opportunity stupidity.

"And secular groups also point out that while state school pupils are "protected" from creationist teaching, similar guidelines do not exist to cover children who attend private religious schools - Christian, Jewish and Muslim.

One such school that teaches creationism as a science is the respected Islamic Karimia Institute in Nottingham.

"We teach what it says in the Koran, that God created Adam and Eve, and from them came the rest of humanity," says institute director Dr Musharraf Hussain. "We do not teach that man is descended from a lower animal - we say that God created the different species on their own." "

Yep, anyone with money and half a brain can start a school and sell whatever they want to willing parents.
I am feeling lazy right now so will post this from the comments on the BBC page-

"The media wrongly describes this as a debate between creationism and evolutionary theory. In fact, the debate is between creationism and the whole of science as we know it. If the universe is less than 10,000 years old, then: all of geology and biology are wrong; the speed of light has been wrongly calculated, so Einsteinian physics is wrong; the distance and speed of other galaxies has been wrongly calculated, meaning that all of astronomy and therefore Newtonian physics are also wrong. For informed people to challenge accepted scientific orthodoxy on the basis of proper evidence is always healthy, but to debunk the whole of science on the back of a story passed down by some Iron Age goat-herders is just self-delusion."

It's not just Evolution, it's pretty much the whole of modernity!
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 25, 2012 10:44PM
Quote

That's why "Christianity" needs more Catholics and fewer nitwits. We're OK with evolution, etc. It's cool. No problemo. Yeah... we hassled that Galileo guy. Our bad. Sorry. Long time ago.

Cool. What's their position on child molestation?
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 26, 2012 06:07AM
^^^^^
Why not ask them, they have a new, just hired a new media advisor.

Greg Burke, he was the Rome correspondent for Fox News. To further enhance his credentials, he is a member of Opus Dei. (Really, you can't make this stuff up)



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 26, 2012 09:28AM
Quote
Ombligo
^^^^^
Why not ask them, they have a new, just hired a new media advisor.

Greg Burke, he was the Rome correspondent for Fox News. To further enhance his credentials, he is a member of Opus Dei. (Really, you can't make this stuff up)

I could not believe that when I read about it. Or perhaps I mean I could believe it, but could not believe the Vatican didn't know their shaky credibility just got a whole lot shakier.



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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: decay
Date: June 26, 2012 08:25PM
Biblical references Psalm 93:1, 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same manner, Psalm 104:5 says, "the Lord set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place" etc.


if i put you under house arrest for the rest of your life, would you consider that being 'hassled', Catholics?

don't downplay the church's disdain of science.



---
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: June 27, 2012 12:51AM
Well, between this and the banana thing, I'm convinced!
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 27, 2012 01:07AM
How is the existence of Nessie supposed to refute evolution or prove creation?
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Re: Loch Ness Monster proves Creationism. No, really.
Posted by: davester
Date: June 27, 2012 09:27AM
Quote
Dennis S
How is the existence of Nessie supposed to refute evolution or prove creation?

By proving that the fields of geology, paleontology and isotope chemistry, which show that dinosaurs only lived prior to 180 million years ago,are wrong because dinosaurs are still alive.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2012 09:27AM by davester.
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