Last night I photographed a health care reform bill burning ceremony. It was done in Hell, Michigan, so the bill would cleverly "burn in Hell." The tea party group who organized it had originally planned to celebrate its defeat by SCOTUS by burning it, declaring it dead and then burying it. The organizer intended to cancel the event after ACA was upheld but got a lot of requests to go ahead with the burning so they did but did not bury it.

Let's ignore the fact that they burned the wrong bill--they burned H.R. 3200 which was never passed--it was symbolic, I guess.

Anyway, I think I got a lot more insight about the issue from attending the protest/rally.

One woman who I think is a law clerk (but might have been an actual attorney) spoke at great length. She went on and on in an emotional manner about how terrible this is for the country and its citizens. She said things like "Sarah Palin, when she spoke about death panels, did not go nearly far enough." She went on to talk about how if ACA is not repealed then people like her, with pre-existing conditions, before long would not be able to get the care they/she needed because the government would dictate and withhold care. She even gave an example saying "What if the government tells doctors they can only prescribe a certain type of antibiotic--and you're allergic to that antibiotic and it would kill you--how does that help you?"

She was obviously an intelligent and well-educated woman. Why does she, and so many people like her, ignore the real facts and completely buy into concepts that have no basis in reality?

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Fear and uncertainty sells. Facts are boring.

not that it makes sense, but it fits into what is, apparently, a more important world view. They hold the tea party/government is out to getcha world view in higher esteem than the skill of critical thinking. As long as they hold that world view - that their way is the only way and they are 100% right, etc., they can never see anything else..no matter how smart they are.

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Regardless of credentials I would not call any of these people 'smart'.
I think the words you are looking for are 'willfully ignorant' which more or less equates to 'stupid'.

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Manlove
Regardless of credentials I would not call any of these people 'smart'.
I think the words you are looking for are 'willfully ignorant' which more or less equates to 'stupid'.

I guess I was referring to what is likely average or better IQ...

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Did they burn the version with tax in it or penalty?

My doctor prescribed an anti-inflammatory gel for my shoulder to use until we determine what the problem is, since four ibuprofen and BenGay are not doing the trick. When I went to fill the prescription, the pharmacist told me that my insurance won't approve the purchase until my doctor calls and requests permission to give this to me: she has to explain why I need this and not something else.

I've got an expensive top-of-the-line PPO that covers acupuncture and all sorts of things, but my doctor has to "request" that they let me have this gel. Tell me again how wonderful private insurance is, I think I missed something.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2012 04:14PM by $tevie.

I suppose you haven't dealt with Medicare. They reject prescriptions left and right.

Not my mother's, they don't. Go figure.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

It is not just drugs. Try to put up your mother in a nursing home and see how many days they pay for it.

She was in a nursing home for six months after her stroke. They paid every dime. Stop it with the Medicare gotcha, my mother uses the hell out of it with no problems.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

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$tevie
My doctor prescribed an anti-inflammatory gel for my shoulder to use until we determine what the problem is, since four ibuprofen and BenGay are not doing the trick. When I went to fill the prescription, the pharmacist told me that my insurance won't approve the purchase until my doctor calls and requests permission to give this to me: she has to explain why I need this and not something else.

I've got an expensive top-of-the-line PPO that covers acupuncture and all sorts of things, but my doctor has to "request" that they let me have this gel. Tell me again how wonderful private insurance is, I think I missed something.

I can top that. My doctor wants me on a GERD medicine that my insurance won't cover. His "request" for exemption isn't enough. He has to try me on at least 2 other ok'd medicines for a few weeks each and wait for them to "fail" before they will approve.

That is BS, Stevie. You either don't know the full story or are relying on people's ignorance. 100 days. That is all they get. After that some other insurance has to pick it up. They have to get out and come back after a period of being "well"?

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How long does Medicare cover my Skilled Nursing Facility (SNF) care?

Medicare uses a period of time called a benefit period to keep track of how many days of SNF benefits you use, and how many are still available. A benefit period begins on the day you start using hospital or SNF benefits under Part A of Medicare. You can get up to 100 days of SNF coverage in a benefit period. Once you use those 100 days, your current benefit period must end before you can renew your SNF benefits.
Your benefit period ends
• when you have not been in a SNF or a hospital for at least 60 days in a row, OR
• if you remain in a SNF, when you haven’t received skilled care there for at least 60 days in a row.
There is no limit to the number of benefit periods you can have. However, once a benefit period ends, you must have another 3-day qualifying hospital stay and meet the Medicare requirements as listed on page 13 before you can get up to another 100 days of SNF benefits.

First of all: I was complaining about having a top-of-the-line insurance plan dictating prescriptions to my doctor. My point was that people who think private insurance is so wonderful apparently don't use their insurance.

Second of all: Don't tell me that something didn't happen that did happen. I will kick your head so far up your ass that you will be able to see out of your mouth.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Avenger/Dakota, did you actually have a point? No, of course you didn't. Just more irrelevant trolling as usual.

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It's a valid question.

Medicare stays in SNFs are limited as Avenger notes, so I assume she paid out of pocket or long-term care insurance paid.

Otherwise you have to qualify (means tested) for Medicaid to pick up the tab.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2012 06:00PM by Bill in NC.

Back to the OP.. It's political maneuvering of course. Yes, I expect many believe the fictions about the law.. In either direction. Then again the Easter Bunny and Creationism are also popular.

My mother does have supplemental -- but I entirely fail to see how this has One Single Thing to do with my insurance company screwing with my prescriptions, since it detracts entirely from my point.

The nursing home thing was a strawman/troll remark and I should never have dignified it with a response. When will I learn?

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2012 06:40PM by $tevie.

It must suck to be Dakotavenger. If this is not an act, I feel very sorry for him.

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Avenger
It is not just drugs. Try to put up your mother in a nursing home and see how many days they pay for it.

my dad was in a nursing home under medicare the last 3 years of his life. if there was a limit my brother and i were never told about it. and there was no other insurance available. then again, maybe it was medicaid. either way, he received the care he needed under a government program.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2012 08:14PM by graylocks.

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AllGold
She was obviously an intelligent and well-educated woman. Why does she, and so many people like her, ignore the real facts and completely buy into concepts that have no basis in reality?

Never underestimate "The Power of Fox News." And talk radio. Propaganda has always been very successful with those who feel aggrieved or lack the ability to think critically.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Get lost Dakota. No one here has any respect for you and your trolling attention seeking is pathetic.

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Avenger
derp derp @#$%& derp?

Wut?

I am sorry to have to destroy your attempt at painting private insurance as the only entity that denies health benefits. I am not surprised that you had to fake an outrage when I showed everyone that old people have 100 days to get back their youth as far as Federal government is concerned. I happen yo know this from personal experience. Imagine how many other lies and distortions you are spreading here that people don't know about.

Based on my parents' experience, Medicare nursing home benefits are largely limited to rehab. If you are custodial, as in there's no hope of rehab, you pay for it yourself or you go home. Once you have exhausted all your assets down to the defined limits, you can qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid will pay for custodial nursing home care, if you medically qualify.

On the upside, your family does not have to worry about paying inheritance taxes.

Avenger, I never said private insurance is the only entity that ever denies something.

You are so stupid you can't understand a point that I have clearly explained at least twice. You should be embarrassed to parade your stupidity in public the way you do, but evidently you are so freaking stupid you can't see how stupid you really are. @#$%&.


Yes, permanent nursing home until death does end up taking all your money. That's called Free Enterprise, ain't it grand?

It also has NOTHING to do with prescription coverage. Christ Jesus this gets old.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2012 12:03PM by $tevie.

I have read a couple articles, quite possibly linked somewhere here in this forum, where studies show the paradox of how the more educated/informed Republicans are actually the ones who tend to ignore the facts and buy into the party line completely.

Less educated Republicans (call them dumb if you like) are actually more likely to be persuaded by factual arguments. Where the "smarter" Republicans don't feel like they have to listen factual arguments because they believe the party leadership must have already done all the fact checking needed (obviously not the case, especially when Sarah Palin is the source ).

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AllGold
Less educated Republicans (call them dumb if you like) are actually more likely to be persuaded by factual arguments.

Are you saying that less educated Republicans are really intelligent Democrats in disguise?

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AllGold
I have read a couple articles, quite possibly linked somewhere here in this forum, where studies show the paradox of how the more educated/informed Republicans are actually the ones who tend to ignore the facts and buy into the party line completely.

Less educated Republicans (call them dumb if you like) are actually more likely to be persuaded by factual arguments. Where the "smarter" Republicans don't feel like they have to listen factual arguments because they believe the party leadership must have already done all the fact checking needed (obviously not the case, especially when Sarah Palin is the source ).

Great! So the educated Repubs know just enough to be dangerous, i.e. they believe they and their overlords know better than fact, and the know-nothings can be convinced of anything by throwing a few facts around!

-Yesterday in Troy, Michigan, Rick Santorum explained why kids shouldn't go to college. There, liberal professors "indoctrinate" them, and "remake" them in the image of Barack Obama. This, apparently, is the only reason Barack Obama wants kids to pursue higher education. Says Santorum: "What a snob!"
[www.towleroad.com]

(amusing that this links to a gaysite...a Santorum...snigger!)

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Manlove

Quote
AllGold
I have read a couple articles, quite possibly linked somewhere here in this forum, where studies show the paradox of how the more educated/informed Republicans are actually the ones who tend to ignore the facts and buy into the party line completely.

Less educated Republicans (call them dumb if you like) are actually more likely to be persuaded by factual arguments. Where the "smarter" Republicans don't feel like they have to listen factual arguments because they believe the party leadership must have already done all the fact checking needed (obviously not the case, especially when Sarah Palin is the source ).

Great! So the educated Repubs know just enough to be dangerous, i.e. they believe they and their overlords know better than fact, and the know-nothings can be convinced of anything by throwing a few facts around!

-Yesterday in Troy, Michigan, Rick Santorum explained why kids shouldn't go to college. There, liberal professors "indoctrinate" them, and "remake" them in the image of Barack Obama. This, apparently, is the only reason Barack Obama wants kids to pursue higher education. Says Santorum: "What a snob!"
[www.towleroad.com]

(amusing that this links to a gaysite...a Santorum...snigger!)

keep up the good work, you're gonna have all the poll-tested mythical canards down pat before you know it and tossing them like so many playing cards like a pro

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[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

>>Yes, permanent nursing home until death does end up taking all your money. That's called Free Enterprise, ain't it grand?<<

No, it is called the Medicare myth. All your life you thought you are covered for life then you learn you have 100 days then you are on the street. If you are lucky you can find a nursing home that takes Medicaid but you won't be able to sleep at night if you put up your loved one in one of them. Don't argue with me Stevie. I know what I am talking about. I have lived it.

Yeah! How dare you question anecdotal evidence?!

Especially from a compulsive liar!

Dakotavenger thinks that if the right wing media did not say it happened, it did not. There are plenty more stories that refute what he is spewing.

If I were that bad at something (as Dakotavenger is at debating points), I would quit (but then again, I have pride).

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Anecdotal evidence? It is in their handbook. Go back up.

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Dakota
Anecdotal evidence? It is in their handbook. Go back up.

The return of Dakota's cogent "I'm rubber, and you're glue" argument. Laughable.

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Avenger
>>Yes, permanent nursing home until death does end up taking all your money. That's called Free Enterprise, ain't it grand?<<

No, it is called the Medicare myth. All your life you thought you are covered for life then you learn you have 100 days then you are on the street. If you are lucky you can find a nursing home that takes Medicaid but you won't be able to sleep at night if you put up your loved one in one of them. Don't argue with me Stevie. I know what I am talking about. I have lived it.

Dakota whines about too much government social spending until it applies to him and then there's not enough. As $tevie would say, "Pick a lane and stay in it."

I have never thought Medicare paid for permanent nursing home care and don't know anybody who does. Having elderly relatives who died in nursing homes I am familiar with how it works.

I had no idea the original post bringing up nursing homes was meant to mean permanent residency because it would never occur to me to think Medicare covered that.

Medicare is health insurance - it's NOT nursing home insurance nor long-term care insurance. Who the hell doesn't know that? My private insurance won't pay for me to live out my days in a nursing home, either.

I can't believe Dakota wants the government to pay for all of our living arrangements until we die. That is incredible.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

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$tevie
I can't believe Dakota wants the government to pay for all of our living arrangements until we die. That is incredible.

Dakota clearly has no interest in the facts behind any discussion. He obviously wants nothing more than to be argumentative and to make all of the threads be about him. Sadly, he's succeeding.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland

many so-called 'smart' people LITERALLY believe that a SNAKE talked to a naked man and woman in a garden of eden.

and that a man rose from the DEAD, and floated up into the sky.

sorry, but that's how i see it.

fantasy-land.

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[www.giyf.com]

Quote
billb
keep up the good work, you're gonna have all the poll-tested mythical canards down pat before you know it and tossing them like so many playing cards like a pro

Thanks. I'm learnin' me sumptin' from y'all.

Move on. Nothin' to be learned here.