this article is long. very long. and heady - i'm been going through it off and on all day and at some point i intend to read it again. part of it seems too extreme. living in the South, parts of it seem all too clarifying. i don't want to see America as a battle of Elites but at the very least the concept is food for thought.


Conservative Southern Values Revived: How a Brutal Strain of American Aristocrats Have Come to Rule America

It's been said that the rich are different than you and me. What most Americans don't know is that they're also quite different from each other, and that which faction is currently running the show ultimately makes a vast difference in the kind of country we are.

Right now, a lot of our problems stem directly from the fact that the wrong sort has finally gotten the upper hand; a particularly brutal and anti-democratic strain of American aristocrat that the other elites have mostly managed to keep away from the levers of power since the Revolution. Worse: this bunch has set a very ugly tone that's corrupted how people with power and money behave in every corner of our culture. Here's what happened, and how it happened, and what it means for America now.

more...a lot more...

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

It's been a slow drift since President Reagan was elected. But it does seem to have accelerated since Faux News started and Limpbaugh went on the air and really got legs with Citizens United.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

I was just reading this before coming over here.
It helped to answer (or at least point me in the direction of answers) some of the questions I've been having about why America appears to be the selfish extreme right wing country that I mentioned in an earlier thread.
I don't know if Sara Robinson is considered a journalist or a hack, but she has some history on her side it seems.

This is not recent. It's been centuries in the making, and now it is very deeply entrenched in the American psyche, to the extent that anyone pointing out that there is a fundamental problem is dismissed as a lunatic who is unable to formulate a coherent argument. The truth is that the argument literally cannot be heard because those who should be hearing it have no framework for understanding.

At least, that's one way of looking at it.

I think there are some truths in there that are hidden behind some very negative picture painting.

i'd like to see a conservative weigh in on this.

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Our rich dicks are better than your rich dicks.
Oy vey.

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[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

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billb
Our rich dicks are better than your rich dicks.
Oy vey.

Are you wearing your Yankee hat?

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Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

Yippee! The South shall rise again?

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

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swampy
Yippee! The South shall rise again?

you're a plantation owner??

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mattkime
I think there are some truths in there that are hidden behind some very negative picture painting.

i'd like to see a conservative weigh in on this.

This was my take too. I'd actually like to see a fair minded historian weigh in, but I'll settle.

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mattkime

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swampy
Yippee! The South shall rise again?

you're a plantation owner??

Nope, she just guards a bridge.

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The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

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Avenger
The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

don't fret. it was probably above your lexile. we understand.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

Maybe reading bettered you?

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Avenger
The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

By settling for a (fair-minded) conservative in lieu of an historian, I didn't mean for this!
No fair.

Learn me some history Avenger!

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graylocks

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Avenger
The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

Don't fret. It was probably above your lexile. We understand.

Fixed...

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freeradical

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graylocks

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Avenger
The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

Don't fret. It was probably above your lexile. We understand.

Fixed...

as long as it makes you feel better, dear...

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

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graylocks

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freeradical

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graylocks

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Avenger
The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

Don't fret. It was probably above your lexile. We understand.

Fixed...

As long as it makes you feel better, dear...

Fixed...

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freeradical

Quote
graylocks

Quote
freeradical

Quote
graylocks

Quote
Avenger
The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

Don't fret. It was probably above your lexile. We understand.

Fixed...

As long as it makes you feel better, dear...

Fixed...

fixed...

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

Very interesting read, thanks for the link. There are several things that concern me about the article (e.g., that much hinges on assuming claims made in other papers and that the author tends to generalize beyond the tight logical implications of those assumptions), but in spite of those concerns, I think that there is a germ of truth to the underlying premise.

There is one provocative judgment that author makes that I can't agree with, though:

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Since shortly after the Revolution, the Yankee elites have worked hard to keep the upper hand on America's culture, economy and politics -- and much of our success as a nation rests on their success at keeping plantation culture sequestered in the South, and its scions largely away from the levers of power. If we have to have an elite -- and there's never been a society as complex as ours that didn't have some kind of upper class maintaining social order -- we're far better off in the hands of one that's essentially meritocratic, civic-minded and generally believes that it will do better when everybody else does better, too.

[I added the bolding]

Social order in constitutional democratic societies is maintained by everyone - everyone has to do their part to maintain social order. Even the vast majority of lowest income people in constitutional democratic societies do their part to maintain social order. The wealthiest members have to do their part to maintain social order as well, but just because they are wealthier and their decisions may affect more people doesn't imply that they are the ones maintaining social order. In a constitutional democracy everyone has an important role in maintaining social order. Maybe the author doesn't think our society is a constitutional democracy, but I do.

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Ted King
Social order in constitutional democratic societies is maintained by everyone - everyone has to do their part to maintain social order. Even the vast majority of lowest income people in constitutional democratic societies do their part to maintain social order. The wealthiest members have to do their part to maintain social order as well, but just because they are wealthier and their decisions may affect more people doesn't imply that they are the ones maintaining social order. In a constitutional democracy everyone has an important role in maintaining social order. Maybe the author doesn't think our society is a constitutional democracy, but I do.

i think in theory all classes have an important role in our constitutional democracy but in practice the monied class wields a disproportionate amount of power politically. massive amounts of money are being funneled into the PACs and the advertising they buy unfortunately is making a difference. the lower one is on the income scale the more of your time, energy and resources gets taken up with day-to-day survival instead of contemplating the longer term impact of elections.

so maybe it's not so much that the elite classes are maintaing social order but rather manipulating how society is ordered.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

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graylocks

i think in theory all classes have an important role in our constitutional democracy but in practice the monied class wields a disproportionate amount of power politically. massive amounts of money are being funneled into the PACs and the advertising they buy unfortunately is making a difference. the lower one is on the income scale the more of your time, energy and resources gets taken up with day-to-day survival instead of contemplating the longer term impact of elections.

so maybe it's not so much that the elite classes are maintaing social order but rather manipulating how society is ordered.

I pretty much agree with that.

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graylocks

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Avenger
The longest gobbledygook I really tried to finish reading.

don't fret. it was probably above your lexile. we understand.

Maybe some one would volunteer to read it (with word definitions) to you.

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Freeradical

Fixed...

Fixed.

I'll give you a minute.


You seem to be white-knighting for Dakota lately. You can't be that desperate for a friend on this side now, can you?