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DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 03, 2012 08:58PM
Nothing outs energy hypocrites quicker than a black out in the middle of a heat wave. On the other hand, with nothing else to do in the dark this is a good time to have a family discussion on the merits of alternative energy.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 03, 2012 09:06PM
What?


rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 03, 2012 09:07PM
there's this mexican place just down the street that makes the best margaritas. i need to figure out how to make them myself so i'm not spending $50 on alcohol for dinner.


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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 03, 2012 09:22PM
The power outages had to do with storm damage not the method of how energy is produced, jeez.
Whether it came from a nuclear reactor or a windmill how does power get to people if the lines are down?


Grateful11
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: July 03, 2012 09:28PM
Best margarita is the juice of a lemon, juice of a lime, 2 oz. tequila and 1/2 oz. triple sec. Chill and shake. Salt optional but darned good.

edit: Those who like their margaritas sweet can knock the tequila down to 1-1/2 oz and the triple sec up to 1 oz.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2012 09:31PM by Gutenberg.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 03, 2012 09:40PM
[www.youtube.com]


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 03, 2012 09:50PM
Quote
Avenger
DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?

Atlantis people, how are those Martian radios working out for you?
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 03, 2012 10:02PM
Solar roofs would come in real handy about now.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 03, 2012 10:23PM
Wouldn't it be great if in the course of phasing out the consumption of fossil fuels and the resultant greenhouse gasses and pollution we also drove down the incidence of cancer linearly ?




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 03, 2012 11:19PM
>>The power outages had to do with storm damage not the method of how energy is produced, jeez.
<<

Fine, but the original question stands. Where are the windmills and solar cells when we need them? Those EV vehicles come real handy now too.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 04, 2012 12:12AM
Quote
Avenger
Where are the windmills and solar cells when we need them?

Renewables are outpacing the growth of fossil fuel exploitation.

They presently make up about 12% of our domestic energy production and are expected to grow at the rate of 20-25% per year over the next decade.

Solar is a miniscule part of that, primarily because solar panels are still expensive and funding has been pulled from CSP projects during the recession, but there's been a new round of venture capital for several projects out West that are expected to take off in the next 5-10 years and each one is supposed supply enough power (day and night) for at least 10,000 people at or below the cost associated with traditional coal-burning plants.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 04, 2012 01:03AM
Quote
Avenger
hypocrites

[inigo_montoya.jpg]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 04, 2012 08:12AM
Quote
Avenger
>>The power outages had to do with storm damage not the method of how energy is produced, jeez.
<<

Fine, but the original question stands. Where are the windmills and solar cells when we need them? Those EV vehicles come real handy now too.

There you go twist it around when I knew what you were referring too.

How do I caught up in the feeding of this Troll?.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 04, 2012 08:14AM
Quote
Avenger
>>The power outages had to do with storm damage not the method of how energy is produced, jeez.
<<

Fine, but the original question stands. Where are the windmills and solar cells when we need them?

Sitting standby just like all the other power generators. They are power generators not Gods to worship.


Those EV vehicles come real handy now too.

If you have your own PV on your roof (or wind generator) and they were connected to an off-grid system you could drive your EV around thumbing your nose at all the gas and diesel owners who can't get fuel because the grid has failed.




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: beagledave
Date: July 04, 2012 09:04AM
I'm not really in a margarita mood...but the idea of strawberry basil lemonade on my deck sounds yummy.

[www.mrdistilling.com]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: swampy
Date: July 04, 2012 09:42AM
What a bunch of whimps! Can't take a couple days without power.

Like many other businesses, the utility service companies have had to lay off workers (line men) so the manpower isn't there to hook it all back up. My electric co-op can't hire enough line men because Obama has the labor force thinking they all need to go to college these days and get a degree. Heck, why make $20 an hour climbing poles when you can go to college (mostly on my buck) and then on welfare when you can't get a job after graduation?




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Spock
Date: July 04, 2012 10:14AM
Quote
swampy
What a bunch of whimps! Can't take a couple days without power.

Like many other businesses, the utility service companies have had to lay off workers (line men) so the manpower isn't there to hook it all back up. My electric co-op can't hire enough line men because Obama has the labor force thinking they all need to go to college these days and get a degree. Heck, why make $20 an hour climbing poles when you can go to college (mostly on my buck) and then on welfare when you can't get a job after graduation?

Claiming to be a teacher yet showing the plantation owner mentality.

Oh the moral confliction.





Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 04, 2012 10:35AM
Quote
swampy
What a bunch of whimps! Can't take a couple days without power.

Like many other businesses, the utility service companies have had to lay off workers (line men) so the manpower isn't there to hook it all back up. My electric co-op can't hire enough line men because Obama has the labor force thinking they all need to go to college these days and get a degree. Heck, why make $20 an hour climbing poles when you can go to college (mostly on my buck) and then on welfare when you can't get a job after graduation?

One day if you happen to be on O2 and your machine can't make O2 because your power goes out will
you suffer through it and die or be a wimp and call for help?

I know several college grads that have yet to find a job or at least full-time employment but none that
I know are on your frackin' buck, you're a good one to call the kettle black.

Most power companies have let workers go so they can contract out major repairs and new
construction to keep from having to pay benefits, they've been doing are the last 10-20 years,
not because everyone thinks they need to go college. What do have against College Grads?

BTW: How many on here sent back their Bush Stimulus Checks or did you cash them? I've yet to find a
Conservative Repub that sent theirs back.

I cashed mine.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 04, 2012 11:27AM
Quote
Avenger
Those EV vehicles come real handy now too.

You do realize that gas stations need power to operate?

[northpotomac.patch.com]

_____________________________________________________________________




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 11:33AM by $tevie.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 04, 2012 11:31AM
Quote
swampy
What a bunch of whimps! Can't take a couple days without power.


Your empathy for people who die in heat waves both with and w/o power is remarkable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 11:32AM by Lux Interior.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 04, 2012 11:37AM
After clicking on this thread, I remember why I don't spend much time on this side of the forums...

nuts smiley
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: swampy
Date: July 04, 2012 11:43AM
Ever heard of a generator?

I paid cash for college. You know, work and savings?

What I deplore is telling _all_ kids they can make it in college. Some will never cut it academically. That's reality. Nothing wrong with learning a trade. Whose more likely to get a job today, an anthropology major or a line man?

My local electric company _does_ contract out repair work. The labor force is still not there regardless of who's hiring.

I deposited my stimulus check then turned around and wrote a check to the Humane Society and another to a local hospice. I didn't need it. They did.




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: decay
Date: July 04, 2012 11:44AM
out of curiousity, how many students can possibly pay cash for college in 2012?

let's be serious here.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 04, 2012 12:23PM
I have a lot of trouble believing that every single young person in Florida is attending college rather than working a job.

Report: More than a third of Florida high school grads to skip college
[articles.sun-sentinel.com]

According to the BLS current population survey (CPS), the unemployment rate for Florida fell 0.1 percentage points in May 2012 to 8.6%.
[www.deptofnumbers.com]

As for "telling all kids they can make it in college": I don't think that a goal of increasing college grads from 40% to 60% of the working population is really what one would call "all".
Quote

Kanter discussed President Obama’s goal of increasing the number of American college graduates from 40 percent of working adults today, to 60 percent by 2020. That goal will better prepare students for the 21st century job market, and help the U.S. regain its position as first in the world in educating its students. She said that meeting this goal will require the U.S. to turn out at least 8 million additional graduates, and at least 5 million will come from community colleges.
[www.ed.gov]

Not to mention, try reading the Help Wanted ads sometime and see how many jobs require or at least desire a bachelor's degree, sometimes in areas you would never guess. [www.higheredjobs.com] [www.indeed.com] [www.careerbuilder.com] That would be laid at the employers' feet, not the President's.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 12:25PM by $tevie.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: swampy
Date: July 04, 2012 12:30PM
Quote
decay
out of curiousity, how many students can possibly pay cash for college in 2012?

let's be serious here.

Not many, I'm sure. My son did it in the 80s although he did have help from the Florida Bright Futures scholarship, (based on high school grades and available to all qualifying students) and his private college fund we set up for him in kindergarden. He also worked part time.




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 04, 2012 12:32PM
>>Not many, I'm sure. My son did it in the 80s

the olden days were grand!


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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: john dough
Date: July 04, 2012 12:35PM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
swampy
What a bunch of whimps! Can't take a couple days without power.


Your empathy for people who die in heat waves both with and w/o power is remarkable.

It does not take much to smoke out those who have little/no empathy. I am sure that if it happened to her, she would not be so insulting to others.

This is the prevailing feeling of many in the GOP these days; if I have mine, screw everyone else.


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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 04, 2012 12:44PM
Yeesh. The power companies were not prepared for hurricane like damage. When hurricanes are approaching they have time to prepare, position assets, and coordinate with other states for help. With storms like we had, there's no prep. But people don't think about this and expect faster service.

How swampy took this to college or trade choices is crazy. Got any links showing your coop contracts out work due to lack of applicants?
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 04, 2012 12:45PM
Quote
swampy
Not many, I'm sure. My son did it in the 80s although he did have help from the Florida Bright Futures scholarship, (based on high school grades and available to all qualifying students) and his private college fund we set up for him in kindergarden. He also worked part time.


So he paid cash, just not his cash.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 04, 2012 12:54PM
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 04, 2012 12:59PM
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 04, 2012 01:06PM
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: swampy
Date: July 04, 2012 01:07PM
$tevie, the Sun-Sentinel article was interesting and pretty much on point. But to hear Obama speak on the subject he's not as pragmatic or realistic. I've just seen a lot of high school kids (and their parents) set themselves up for faliure. We are graduating kids from high school who can't read. They can't even get entry level jobs in the fast food industry because they can't count change yet society keeps telling them they need to go to college!

Even those who are weak academically can achieve if they are instilled with a desire to learn and have role models who value an education and ambition. I once had a severly dislexic student, but he loved all things audio visual. We encouraged that. He still has difficulty reading, but he now works for the county library system setting up audio visual equipment, speaker systems and lighting systems for community events. He's productive and happy. He doesn't have any kind of degree. Not even a GED.

I recently read an article about people on unemployment being able to go to community colleges to get retraining. Great idea until some bean counter in Washington said they couldn't atten a CC that offered any kind of 4 year BS degree. How stupid is that? I think that Washington whiz-kid has been set straight, but it goes to show the mentality of many bureaucrats who don't have a clue or a lick of common sense. I get so fur.started over this kind of mettling in education that comes out of DC.




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: swampy
Date: July 04, 2012 01:13PM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
swampy
Not many, I'm sure. My son did it in the 80s although he did have help from the Florida Bright Futures scholarship, (based on high school grades and available to all qualifying students) and his private college fund we set up for him in kindergarden. He also worked part time.


So he paid cash, just not his cash.

He EARNED his cash. He worked hard in high school to qualify for his scholarship just as any other kid could WORK to get theirs. And you can't fault parents who save and invest THEIR cash to help pay for their kids college. That's what parents are supposed to do. Why do you put people down who WORK and EARN their way?




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 01:14PM by swampy.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 04, 2012 01:16PM
Just to set the record straight, Pres. Obama never said that a 4-year degree program is appropriate for every American student. He said that he would like to see every adult have the opportunity to obtain some form of education beyond high school. That could certainly include vocational training. That's it.

And yes, an American high school diploma needs to mean something, at least some minimum standards for reading, writing, and math. Most states have those in place and students without the required reading, writing and math skills will not have a diploma in those states. Has Florida not enacted that? If not, why not?
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 04, 2012 01:27PM
Quote
swampy
Why do you put people down who WORK and EARN their way?


You're funny, swampy.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Pops
Date: July 04, 2012 01:46PM
Quote
swampy
We are graduating kids from high school who can't read.
That's an often used statement, but I'd like to see some statistics on those graduates who "can't read". What everyone means is that a lot of kids graduate with reading skills inferior to what you and I have, and would believe all can achieve. I have no dispute that education at the secondary level in public schools has been diluted; that we try to keep students who SHOULD be in a trade based program in college prep classes where they'll never succeed, but true illiteracy is virtually unknown among any child who finishes high school.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 04, 2012 01:51PM
I don't know about your area but around here our CC's are SWAMPED with students. Some are there for 2 year trade training, some are saving money and transferring to a 4 year college for their last two years.

I don't know where you are getting your Washington bean counter stuff from. By definition CC's are 2 year institutions. Not 4 year.

I also don't think you appreciate how college costs have risen. Just look at the chart from this older article. Add to it the competition for scholarships it is almost impossible to combine student earnings and parents' savings and not have to take out a loan. Your teacher's salary wouldn't cut it. While it's great that you and your son didn't deal with today's problem, you need to quit snubbing people. Times are very different [money.cnn.com]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 04, 2012 01:54PM
BTW, tuition does not cover the cost to educate a student. Colleges rely on state and federal funding, donors, and corporate gifts to help make up the difference between what a student pays and what it costs to educate him/her. And, of course, this also means that scholarships are paid for by all of the above plus the students who are paying full freight.

It's best not to get into a discussion about who is paying their own way to college, because pretty much nobody does. The closest to such a thing are the children whose parents are well-to-do enough to pay the "retail" price of the school, and even they are not paying 100% of the true cost. Any assistance whatsoever, even "merit" scholarships, is being paid somewhere by somebody.

PS: It may be too obvious to mention, but out-of-state students help pay the tuition for in-state students at state colleges.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 01:59PM by $tevie.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 04, 2012 02:09PM
Quote
$tevie
BTW, tuition does not cover the cost to educate a student. Colleges rely on state and federal funding, donors, and corporate gifts to help make up the difference between what a student pays and what it costs to educate him/her..


An important and timely point that can't be overstated.
For the first time in history, we are failing to adequately fund our public university system. A system that is the world's finest, and the envy of the world, and personally I think it's one of our country's most significant accomplishments.
We cannot let that fail. There are not enough students in China and India or American parents who can pay full out of state tuition to make up the difference. We've got to keep these institutions healthy, alive, flourishing, so that we can all benefit from the shared wisdom and prosperity.

(That little drama that played out at UVA over the past few weeks is another example of going in the wrong direction...)
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 04, 2012 02:35PM
If only there was a way to get power from the sun without having to use wires.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 04, 2012 03:04PM
Quote
swampy
My electric co-op can't hire enough line men because Obama has the labor force thinking they all need to go to college these days and get a degree.

Do you ever proof-read what you write?
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: July 04, 2012 05:35PM
Quote
swampy
My electric co-op can't hire enough line men because Obama has the labor force thinking they all need to go to college these days and get a degree.

You don't seriously expect anyone except a World Net Daily reader to believe that, do you?

As for your comment about high school graduates who can't read, the only ones who go on to college will be playing football or basketball for a major college. Others have to pass the SAT.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 04, 2012 05:41PM
Where is FEMA? If anything, this episode illustrates the utter impotence of the Federal government. When times are good government can do anything. Now you can't hear a peep. The government that supposedly invented the internet and gave us the moon can't keep the lights on in its back yard. Instead, it is looking at the evil utility companies they malign each they. I have relatives in norther VA. Imagine yourself without power for a week in 95 degree weather. Bush was supposed to personally push back the water. Obama is nowhere to be found. He is having a blast in his no doubt air conditioned home.

Let this be a lesson to all that there is no alternative energy source that matters. I don't think those solar panels are turning any AC compressors or keeping food in freezers.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 04, 2012 05:54PM
"Let this be a lesson to all that there is no alternative energy source that matters. I don't think those solar panels are turning any AC compressors or keeping food in freezers."


Rubbish. For alternatives to work we might have to, steel yourself, cut back on consumption. Can you imagine, negative growth. What will we do?

Eat and work locally, as much as possible.
Shop more frequently. Eat less, period.
Change, adapt, grow. Or are you admitting that you are too old and stubborn to change your ways?
Children will adapt to anything. Older people (myself included) find it harder, but, we get to think about and enjoy the results of positive change, even if getting there was hard. Maybe getting there being hard is the point.

Sorry for the truth, but you are old aren't you?
You will be dead quite soon, so what you have to say, particularly when loaded with 'me first' negativity, is almost entirely irrelevant.
Funnily I do think that the elderly have lots to teach the young, but first they (the old folk) have to learn some lessons themselves- the primary one being that we are all important and deserve equal opportunity. If you are prepared to screw things up for future generations because you want yours now, then you have not learned anything and hence have nothing to offer.

Fact, we will all die. What we leave for the future is all that matters, because in a few short years we will be gone.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 04, 2012 06:05PM
You are banging your head against the wall. There is NO real alternative to oil, gas or coal. You can philosophize all you want. There just isn't. I am sorry that "eat and work locally" doesn't cut it today in DC, Vienna or McLean. When times are good alternatives are about to push out the "old". When chips are down, they are not there

If you are a true believer you have to show how it is done. Lecturing from an air conditioned home thousands of miles away to eat locally is silly.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 04, 2012 06:07PM
Quote
Avenger
Where is FEMA? If anything, this episode illustrates the utter impotence of the Federal government. .


quit yer whining! The power companies have done a great job restoring power in a relatively short period, given the devastating nature of those storms. Only 15K people in NoVa remained without power as of this morning. I know that's very unpleasant for those affected, but this does not rise to the level of a FEMA emergency. There are shelters available if people need them.
[www.washingtonpost.com]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 04, 2012 06:44PM
"If you are a true believer you have to show how it is done. Lecturing from an air conditioned home thousands of miles away to eat locally is silly."

I kinda am. I eat as much from farmers markets as possible. I buy as little prepackaged food as possible and grow all sorts. I cook from scratch. I work close to my home. I quit smoking. I'm 20lbs overweight but willing and able to lose it. I ride a bike.
I don't have AC. We have ceiling fans for when it gets stuffy (which will be soon in Oregon), but for the most part we sweat!
I'm not saying any of it will be easy. But we as a species are capable of colonising new continents by walking in with what we can carry on our backs.
That's not philosophizing, that's fact.

Easy, no: possible, completely!

I hope you come with us in to the future. It won't be the same as the past but could be fun.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 04, 2012 06:51PM
Quote
I am sorry that "eat and work locally" doesn't cut it today in DC, Vienna or McLean.

It doesn't?
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: swampy
Date: July 04, 2012 07:50PM
Pam...I don't know where you are getting your Washington bean counter stuff from. By definition CC's are 2 year institutions. Not 4 year

Don't know where you have been for the past 10 years, but more and more traditional CCs are now offering 4 year degrees. Just last week our local CC changed its name from Community College to State College. It is offering 4 year degrees in Education, Nursing, and Business and Applied Science It still fulfills the role of a CC with all the economic advantages. All 28 CCs in Florida offer at least one 4 year degree.

My complaint about the Washington bean counters is that they don't seem to have clue what transitions are taking place in local CC and their lack of knowledge penalized the vets seeking job retraining.

A problem has arisen for a veterans’ training program expected to launch July 1: Classes at community colleges in 18 states and territories will not be covered because those schools also provide bachelors’ degrees

[www.armytimes.com]




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
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