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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 05, 2012 02:47PM
Quote
Manlove
The part that I don't think you get Avenger, is that in infancy every technology is questioned.

Solar is not in its "infancy". You could have written the same words in 1976. You must be very young. The first time they started going on rooftops promising the end of oil I had not a single gray hair, hostage crisis was a novel and Carter thought he had the energy situation licked with his new department. When oil was discovered nobody had to be convinced it works. They were bidding on it.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 05, 2012 02:50PM
Quote
Manlove
Imagine the convo..."Yea hi, I need some power back on, my food is rotting in the freezer and I'm sweating so much I'm in danger of losing weight. What, you only have green-generated power supplies? No sorry, I don't want any of that filth in my electricity lines!"

Seriously.


I've known people who didn't want any electricity from nuclear in their house because of the radiation.

Seriously.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 05, 2012 02:51PM
Quote
Manlove

Why do you think they would be opposed to for example wind-power, if it were available?

That's the problem. It isn't. Every time you really need alternatives they are 30 years away. I could not be making this argument if somebody had thrown a switch and powered norther VA and DC with wind and solar until power came back. They couldn't keep the lights on for one minute.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: July 05, 2012 02:52PM
Quote
Avenger
Solar is not in its "infancy".

We have been in space for over 50 years and we have barely left the garage. Space travel is still in it's infancy.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 05, 2012 02:59PM
Quote

Why do you think they would be opposed to for example wind-power, if it were available?

From what I understand, the local power company and many customers are supportive of alternative energy sources.

Dominion Power
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 05, 2012 03:01PM
"The White House itself once harvested the power of the sun. On June 20, 1979, the Carter administration installed 32 panels designed to harvest the sun's rays and use them to heat water.

Here is what Carter predicted at the dedication ceremony: "In the year 2000 this solar water heater behind me, which is being dedicated today, will still be here supplying cheap, efficient energy…"
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 05, 2012 03:06PM
Quote
Avenger
"The White House itself once harvested the power of the sun. On June 20, 1979, the Carter administration installed 32 panels designed to harvest the sun's rays and use them to heat water.

Here is what Carter predicted at the dedication ceremony: "In the year 2000 this solar water heater behind me, which is being dedicated today, will still be here supplying cheap, efficient energy…"

And didn't Raygun rip it off?
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 05, 2012 03:13PM
Quote
Avenger
That's the problem. It isn't. Every time you really need alternatives they are 30 years away. I could not be making this argument if somebody had thrown a switch and powered norther VA and DC with wind and solar until power came back. They couldn't keep the lights on for one minute.

Because they need investment in the future. They are not immediate and hence the returns are uncertain.
Oil is burnable, essentially, as is wood. But there are hundreds of examples all over the world where forests have literally been burned to the ground for fuel and then populations have suffered and declined.
"Let's use up all this easily attainable (by which I mean we have a mature technology in the drilling field) power, and let our children worry about themselves." This is essentially your point of view.
Even your next statement makes this clear.
"...if somebody had thrown a switch and powered norther VA and DC with wind and solar until power came back." Power, as you see it, ONLY comes from gas and oil. What do you think comes through your power lines when the source is wind and solar? It IS POWER you fool. Are you really this person..."I've known people who didn't want any electricity from nuclear in their house because of the radiation.
Seriously."?
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 05, 2012 04:16PM
If solar on rooftops worked you wouldn't need power lines. They aren't there, it isn't happening and the fool is you for not seeing it. It is NOT working.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 05, 2012 04:24PM
Tell it to the Germans.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 05, 2012 04:28PM
I don't know any.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: davester
Date: July 05, 2012 04:57PM
Manlove, trying to use logic in an argument with dakota is a fool's errand. Some people are unable to discern the difference between emotional reactions and logical discourse. He is one of them. An easier approach is to view him as a carnival sideshow for this part of the macresource circus.



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2012 04:58PM by davester.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 05, 2012 05:01PM
Dakota, you just got proved wrong and yet you resort to your silly, asinine, juvenile comeback. Admit it when you're wrong like an adult.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 05, 2012 06:27PM
You are still here, davester? And Dennis, you'll be chased out of your home by wife and kids if you took those solar panels in lieu of the generator.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2012 10:14PM
You're technically too ignorant and it shows in this thread. You keep ranting how wind mills and solar power is a failure because it can't save the people in VA who are suffering from power outages, using the non-sensical argument that none of those people believe in them as evidenced by the fact they don't have them installed in their homes. Well, considering the 'genius' you purport to be, I guess coal and oil can't save them either (nor do they have faith in them) because these same people who are suffering from lack of power don't have fossil fuel power generation plants in their homes. How do you explain that smart guy?

The only conclusion that one can draw from your resulting rants is that you just hate any alternative energy source that's different from fossil fuel based sources because you associate their origins with anything other than your right wing 'conservative' types.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2012 10:39PM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 05, 2012 11:26PM
When I was a kid we had fuel in our homes. Some had coal fed from a truck down a chute into a basement holding pen, others had fuel oil tanks.

Guess my folks were ahead of their time.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 05, 2012 11:30PM
At least it worked. It could run all your energy needs off the grid. As it stands now in 2012 you CAN'T run you home with wind or solar. Period.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2012 11:46PM
What worked? You can't "run all your energy needs off the grid" any more so with coal and oil than "with wind or solar. Period." RgrF was talking about heating only, not electricity generation. You have reading comprehension problems as well as a lack of understanding of the technology. Even if you installed some kinid of fossil fuel plant, you ain't gonna be living off the grid unless you're pumping your own oil or mining you're own coal. Go learn yourself something about energy generation and consumption.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 06, 2012 06:51AM
Sure you can, you just need a battery bank.

Most don't bother, since it's easier/cheaper to use the grid instead.

BTW, running that whole-house generator you posted 24/7 could run several hundred bucks a week, even burning natural gas.

Because of the operating costs of fuel, most still opt for smaller, portable generators to power a window unit, not spin up their central A/C.

Quote
Avenger
At least it worked. It could run all your energy needs off the grid. As it stands now in 2012 you CAN'T run you home with wind or solar. Period.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 06, 2012 06:55AM
Quote
Avenger
At least it worked. It could run all your energy needs off the grid. As it stands now in 2012 you CAN'T run you home with wind or solar. Period.

My God where do you come up with this crap?

I happen to know that Bailey's Outdoor Power equipment built a huge lodge off the grid in the wilderness with solar
panel roofing and a battery storage system for power. They're completely off the grid as there are no power lines
anywhere near their place.


Grateful11
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 06, 2012 06:59AM
Quote
Avenger
At least it worked. It could run all your energy needs off the grid. As it stands now in 2012 you CAN'T run you home with wind or solar. Period.

What are you talking about? Many thousands of people run their homes off of wind and and/or solar power.

[science.howstuffworks.com]

It's impossible to get an accurate count of exactly how many people in the United States live off-grid, but in 2006, Home Power magazine estimated that more than 180,000 homes were supplying their own power...
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 06, 2012 07:42AM
He starts a thread by trolling the non-related issue of living off the grid with alternative energy sources to power outages in VA. As if that didn't make any sense, even his troll position was wrong...the only way to live off the grid is with solar & wind (I.e. alternative green energy sources).
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 06, 2012 07:45AM
Okay, I guess the OP wasn't a troll post after all. It was written by someone whom it turns out has no idea how anything works.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 06, 2012 08:05AM
>>I happen to know that Bailey's Outdoor Power equipment built a huge lodge off the grid in the wilderness with solarpanel roofing<<

Sorry, people don't live in wilderness. This is like saying they build tree houses so there should not be any homeless.

This fact remains that NOBODY can deny.

I can run my whole house, AC and all, for days with a a generator the size of a small freezer.

After 40 years from Carter to Obama to stimulus and Solyndra, you can barely keep a few lights on with solar. Hundreds of thousands of new homes are going up and every one of them comes with gas or oil furnace. Practically none come with solar. People are not stupid. YOU are not stupid. IT DOES NOT WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. Drive around your neighborhood and see how many homes have solar. Even after tens of thousands of dollars in credit people aren't going for it.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 06, 2012 08:38AM
Quote

It was written by someone whom it turns out has no idea how anything works.

agree smiley
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 06, 2012 10:23AM
I'm not in Virginia, but: Shout out to Hydro One crews that are helping to restore (coal) rolleyes smiley power to the area.

[www.cbc.ca]




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 07, 2012 04:32PM
Quote
Avenger
>>I happen to know that Bailey's Outdoor Power equipment built a huge lodge off the grid in the wilderness with solarpanel roofing<<

Sorry, people don't live in wilderness. This is like saying they build tree houses so there should not be any homeless.

This fact remains that NOBODY can deny.

I can run my whole house, AC and all, for days with a a generator the size of a small freezer.

After 40 years from Carter to Obama to stimulus and Solyndra, you can barely keep a few lights on with solar. Hundreds of thousands of new homes are going up and every one of them comes with gas or oil furnace. Practically none come with solar. People are not stupid. YOU are not stupid. IT DOES NOT WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. Drive around your neighborhood and see how many homes have solar. Even after tens of thousands of dollars in credit people aren't going for it.

There you go making yourself look like a, well can't say it. You said it can't be done "period". When I know
that it can. A person doesn't have to build in the wilderness to make it work. Geez you must live a miserable
life, I actually feel sorry for you for some reason.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 08, 2012 12:57PM
Living off-grid.

One example:
[www.dannylipford.com]
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 08, 2012 01:11PM
You can live on the grid or off the grid via alternative energy sources, you can even have emergency backup power, but since Dakota has been unable to articulate what his point is (it keeps shifting depending on what post he is responding to), I am afraid there isn't much purpose to putting reality in the way of his ignorance.

However, just in case anyone still around who DOES know how to read is interested, here's a good story about solar power:
Quote

Caralee Vixler has been playing electric organ at the Church of the Brethren in University Park, Md., since she was 15 years old.

For the past year, that organ -- along with everything else in the church -- has been powered by solar panels.
[www.marketplace.org]


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 08, 2012 02:41PM
This thread got myself and my daughter into a conversation about what energy is and does and where we get it. She suggested painting all cars with photovoltaic paint (well, she said electricity gathering paint) [www.european-coatings.com] and then when you get in your car after work the batteries are charged and ready to take you home. She also advocates gathering Moonlight (reflected sunlight) which she acknowledges will have less power, but is still useful.
She is 10.
Avenger, you and your thinking is worn out. Make way for the new and don't impede it with your innate negativity.
Yes, life is hard and then we die. But people who think like you make it harder for the rest of us who have a little faith in other people.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 08, 2012 07:40PM
It's always 30 years ahead, but if Reagan hadn't got us off-track 30 years ago, we would be there now.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 09, 2012 12:57AM
Quote
Dennis S
It's always 30 years ahead, but if Reagan hadn't got us off-track 30 years ago, we would be there now.

Exactly.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 09, 2012 09:01AM
>>Avenger, you and your thinking is worn out. <<

Wait! You just said this thread got you and your daughter discuss energy. How bad can it be? And as for Stevie constantly wondering what my point is, let me repeat. When power goes out, you would think the "alternatives" that billions have been spent on would kick in. As it turns out the only real alternative is to go to your Home Depot and get a 14KW Generac that would power your entire house, including a 4-ton AC for a mere $5000.

Everything else is a conversation piece. And if you could really name a true alternative, I couldn't make this statement.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 09, 2012 09:25AM
Nobody has ever claimed that alternative energy was some kind of backup plan for when trees fall over and take down power lines. Alternative energy is intended to create new source of energy, not to be a Miracle Cure for storm damage.

You are really being very stupid about this. A child would have been able to figure this out.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 09, 2012 09:36AM
Quote

In the summer of 2010, Marines with Company I, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, entered their month-long predeployment training evolution at the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center in Twentynine Palms, Calif., with technology that absorbed the sun’s rays and distributed its energy to their equipment. That power was used for more than a week, and saved an average of eight gallons of fuel per day that normally would have been used to run generators and vehicles.

Today the Marines of Company I are deployed to the Sangin valley in Afghanistan, and they’re powering their patrol bases with nothing but renewable energy.
[www.marines.mil]

Quote

Energy efficiency and alternative power sources are being promoted throughout Naval Weapons Station Seal Beach, said Lorenzana. "We also have Photovoltaic arrays supplying energy to other buildings on base, and we look to having future solar projects as well."
[www.navy.mil]

Quote

The solar project at Nellis Air Force Base, Geiss said, is a good example of the Air Force's creative approach to public-private partnership and can make its energy supply more sustainable, secure and affordable. The Nellis solar array, which spans over 140 acres and is the largest solar photovoltaic system in North America, generates 14 MW and saves the base about $1M a year.
[www.af.mil]

Quote

After a year of planning and construction, Fort Hood and Universal Services Fort Hood Inc. activated a solar field of nearly 3,000 photovoltaic panels.

The four-acre solar field, near Liberty Village community, will generate one million kilowatt-hours of renewable energy annually for 300 single-family homes.

"We are taking the first step forward and realizing how we can be energy self-sufficient," Brig. Gen. Joseph DiSalvo, deputy commanding general, III Corps and Fort Hood, said. "This is impressive that 20 percent of the energy for Liberty Village will be provided at no cost with solar energy. We are planting a seed here that will get us on a gliding path to show other Department of Defense installations how to do this."
[www.army.mil]

Quote

The goal of Fort Bliss, the military and surrounding communities is to become champions of renewable energy in production generation, efficiency and conservation. One of the installation’s goals is to achieve Net Zero, or producing as much energy as consumed, in the near future.
[www.dodlive.mil]


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 09, 2012 10:01AM
Quote
$tevie
Nobody has ever claimed that alternative energy was some kind of backup plan for when trees fall over and take down power lines. Alternative energy is intended to create new source of energy, not to be a Miracle Cure for storm damage.

No, "alternative" means you can use it when the other option is not available. Now we find out that the "alternative" can barely keep a few flashlights working.
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 09, 2012 10:07AM
Duh, that is NOT what alternative energy means. Okay, you are officially The Dumbest Guy in the Room. Good God.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: DC/VA people, how are those windmills working out for you?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 09, 2012 10:08AM
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