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California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 06, 2012 10:22PM
It feels good to have "defeated" the negative forces. It's really what it all boils down to. You can debate until your jaws drop. Ultimately, you have to win.

[www.scpr.org]
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 06, 2012 10:51PM
So all this debt is going to cause loss of teachers, police and firefighters? Wait! only tax cuts do that.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 06, 2012 11:45PM
Good luck. And you're welcom for the tax money from the rest of the US. Let us know how it will benefit your economies in 20+ years when it's sort of done .

Say... How's AMTRAK doing these days ?
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 07, 2012 12:18AM
Quote
cbelt3
Good luck. And you're welcom for the tax money from the rest of the US. Let us know how it will benefit your economies in 20+ years when it's sort of done .

Say... How's AMTRAK doing these days ?

Even if it destroys the nations's economy 4 times over, we'll have a neat bullet train to ride. I love living in a democracy. I ride Amtrak every couple of weeks btw and it's usually packed (Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin).
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: billb
Date: July 07, 2012 12:18AM
prison chain gangs welfare moms for labor - come in under budget



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 07, 2012 12:21AM
Quote
billb
prison chain gangs welfare moms for labor - come in under budget

Now we're being creative. That's what it's about. Jobs, preferably for welfare moms.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 07, 2012 12:38AM
Glad to hear it. America's infrastructure is starting to show its age. Trains are good for moving lots of people in the same direction, fast. If this is where they need to do that then this is good.
If not, we'll know in 20 years.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: billb
Date: July 07, 2012 12:52AM




The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
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[soundcloud.com]
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 07, 2012 01:40AM
The idea of beginning it at the outer edges rather than metro areas shows they learned something from LA's aborted subway venture. If they can make the Bakersfield leg work, the following extensions through the Antelope Valley and into LA proper might actually happen.

Sans getting to that finish line, it'll become a boondoggle. The Bakersfield Republican/economic establishment wins despite themselves.

Just imagine the thrill of hurtling through the upper desert at 90-120 mph just as the big one hits.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 07, 2012 02:33AM
Quote
RgrF
The idea of beginning it at the outer edges rather than metro areas shows they learned something from LA's aborted subway venture. If they can make the Bakersfield leg work, the following extensions through the Antelope Valley and into LA proper might actually happen.

Sans getting to that finish line, it'll become a boondoggle. The Bakersfield Republican/economic establishment wins despite themselves.

Just imagine the thrill of hurtling through the upper desert at 90-120 mph just as the big one hits.

By the time it opens I will "hopefully" be retired. Building the valley portion was the most clever aspect of the entire venture.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: July 07, 2012 04:47AM
It's certainly a pretty nifty goal but I'm having trouble finding much to argue about with most of the nay-saying Dems that voted against it. Most make pretty valid points.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 07, 2012 05:36AM
Quote
(vikm)
It's certainly a pretty nifty goal but I'm having trouble finding much to argue about with most of the nay-saying Dems that voted against it. Most make pretty valid points.

You should have heard the naysayers about the Boston Subway project of 1895.more here
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 07, 2012 05:39AM
Why is this on the "dark" side?
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 07, 2012 08:27AM
Passenger trains, another thing the rest of civilization finds essential.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 07, 2012 09:12AM
>>Just imagine the thrill of hurtling through the upper desert at 90-120 mph<<

With 15 people on board. I didn't know Bakersfield is such a population center. The place is in the middle of nowhere. What were they thinking?
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 07, 2012 09:45AM
Quote
cbelt3
Good luck. And you're welcom for the tax money from the rest of the US. Let us know how it will benefit your economies in 20+ years when it's sort of done .

Say... How's AMTRAK doing these days ?

I agree, profitability is the wrong question [www.economist.com]. Obviously from ridership numbers people are wanting the service. Our own local light rail, with a short for now route, has far exceeded any ridership expectations. My daughter has taken numerous train trips and has also utilized Greyhound. It was always packed. Even the red-eye bus routes. Getting people out of cars benefits those of us who drive. Ridership in turn can boost destination economies. It's a complicated issue. Measuring economic benefits isn't easy.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 07, 2012 09:49AM
Quote
RgrF
Why is this on the "dark" side?

It was accidental. But no biggie.

Hopefully this will spark movement on the other HSR projects on the board across the nation. This is a golden time for getting these things off of the ground. Boldness.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 07, 2012 11:45AM
A gift from the Governor of Florida to our friends in the great west. He turned it down despite screams of protest from both parties, the state business leaders, the media, former governors and a large portion of the public. There were even private investors willing to guarantee that no state tax money would be used to subsidize it and builders willing to sign contracts that allowed for no cost overruns.

But the Tea Party was pleased.

(and honestly, as much as I detest the man, in this case I think he was right. Unless you could load your car aboard for free, Americans are not going to ride it for short hauls.)



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 07, 2012 12:10PM
Quote
Acer
Passenger trains, another thing the rest of civilization finds essential.

;)
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 07, 2012 12:41PM
Short of adding hundreds of dollars in tolls (and the equivalent to airfares), there won't be riders for this boondoggle.

If you want to spend money on rail in the U.S, spend it on heavy rail for freight - electrify the tracks, expand the tracks.

Freight rail is not fast, but remains the cheapest way to move goods by land.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 07, 2012 12:41PM
Quote
Ombligo

(and honestly, as much as I detest the man, in this case I think he was right. Unless you could load your car aboard for free, Americans are not going to ride it for short hauls.)

Now who told you that lie? The HSR will run a good deal of the length of the current Amtrak San Joaquins train which runs from Bakersfield to Oakland and also Sacramento. It is "extremely" popular (5th busiest nationwide, 3rd busiest in California). I catch this train often. All basically short hauls. Bakersfield, Hansford, Fresno, Madera, Merced, Turlock, Modesto, Stockton, Martinez, Richmond, Emeryville, Oakland. All day long.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 07, 2012 01:01PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Short of adding hundreds of dollars in tolls (and the equivalent to airfares), there won't be riders for this boondoggle.

If you want to spend money on rail in the U.S, spend it on heavy rail for freight - electrify the tracks, expand the tracks.

Freight rail is not fast, but remains the cheapest way to move goods by land.

This is simply not true and has been proven wrong in areas that bucked protests. Obviously there's a case for more rural areas but in the busy corridors ridership would exceed expectations.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2012 01:03PM
We need more and better passenger train service in the US.

A few weeks ago I took the Amtrak Cascades from Seattle to Portland. Very comfy train with a pretty happen' cafe scene on board. Had a delicious organic raspberry salad for $7.

Hugs the sound for the northern part of the trip, very pretty views.

So you can take a nap or read a book or stare out the window or at your laptop (there is free wifi) or socialize and have fun.
Costs $27 with my AAA discount. Although the train stops 7 times, it still gets there about as fast as driving in most conditions, and much faster on bad traffic days (that is most days around here.)

Then last week I drove to Portland, on a Friday afternoon. 5 1/2 hours of crawling along I-5. Horrible. Certainly used more than $27 in gas.

There's a lot to love about trains.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Black
Date: July 07, 2012 01:14PM





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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: billb
Date: July 07, 2012 01:14PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Short of adding hundreds of dollars in tolls (and the equivalent to airfares), there won't be riders for this boondoggle.

If you want to spend money on rail in the U.S, spend it on heavy rail for freight - electrify the tracks, expand the tracks.

Freight rail is not fast, but remains the cheapest way to move goods by land.

Just think of them as high speed cattle cars.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Black
Date: July 07, 2012 01:17PM
Quote
cbelt3
Good luck. And you're welcom for the tax money from the rest of the US. Let us know how it will benefit your economies in 20+ years when it's sort of done .

Say... How's AMTRAK doing these days ?

The implication being that Amtrak is not doing well? Why do you assume so?
I don't know where to find the numbers but a friend who works for Amtrak in an administrative capacity tells me they can't keep up with demand, at least here in the midwest. Over the last 2 years or so I've personally seen a trend where you have to buy fare earlier and earlier or you're going to find it sold out, and when I've ridden what I've seen confirms this.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 01:17PM by Black.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 07, 2012 01:41PM
I was looking at rooms on the City of New Orleans for early October and the Family Bedrooms and Superliner Bedrooms are almost completely sold out already. There are still Roomettes available.

Christmas is just nuts on that train, it is packed to total capacity.



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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 07, 2012 01:46PM
“It’s disheartening that a large number of fairly intelligent people could do such a thing,” said Leon Lederman, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist, when the budget-cutting House of Representatives ended the program. This was, of course, a long time ago, back when Americans still undertook expensive, daring construction projects and believed the House of Representatives had a large number of fairly intelligent people."

I only post this because of the daring construction project element, but the article is pretty amusing.

[www.nytimes.com]
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: billb
Date: July 07, 2012 02:00PM
Another high speed rail thread that will never see the light at the end of the tunnel




The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 07, 2012 02:21PM
The liberal Nirvana-- Not for themselves, of course. They will get in their Hemis and drive away.

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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 07, 2012 02:28PM
Take it you've never been to a real city?
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 07, 2012 02:44PM
Yeesh. It's a wonder we have any airports, roads, bridges, or ports.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: freeradical
Date: July 07, 2012 03:01PM
It's possible to take the train in Italy from Venice to Reggio Calabria.

Nobody does.

They fly...
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 07, 2012 03:58PM
Quote
freeradical
It's possible to take the train in Italy from Venice to Reggio Calabria.

Nobody does.

They fly...

Never been to Italy, but we Californians ride the HELL out of our trains. There is no disputing that as actual current fact. All aboard!
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 07, 2012 04:00PM
Quote
freeradical
It's possible to take the train in Italy from Venice to Reggio Calabria.

Nobody does.

They fly...

Did you ride said train and see how empty it is? Or could this be one of those bits of information such as the incredible number of Romans who told my sister there is no subway in Rome?



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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2012 04:08PM
Quote
freeradical
It's possible to take the train in Italy from Venice to Reggio Calabria.

Nobody does.

They fly...

Yeah it's possible to take a train from Paris to Moscow too.

Better comparison might be Rome/Venice. Trains leave every hour or so, and they are frequently sold out. Flying is not necessarily faster when you add in commute to the airport and waiting in security lines. Both options can be fairly cheap if you plan ahead. I love the scenery along the way, enjoyed with a bottle of wine.
I'll take the train.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: hal
Date: July 07, 2012 04:37PM
I think many of you have no idea the volume of people moving from LA to Sacramento and back every day. Before the financial breakdown, SWA had flights leaving sacramento to the LA area every 20-30 minutes and getting a seat on short notice was hardly a given.

Current people moving system is a joke and it takes a backseat to freight traffic. Trains are often late several hours due to being derailed by freight traffic.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: billb
Date: July 07, 2012 05:19PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
freeradical
It's possible to take the train in Italy from Venice to Reggio Calabria.

Nobody does.

They fly...

Yeah it's possible to take a train from Paris to Moscow too.

Better comparison might be Rome/Venice. Trains leave every hour or so, and they are frequently sold out. Flying is not necessarily faster when you add in commute to the airport and waiting in security lines. Both options can be fairly cheap if you plan ahead. I love the scenery along the way, enjoyed with a bottle of wine.
I'll take the train.
the train is $100.00 , $150.00 first class - 4hours
Easy Jet is $29.00 + $7.00 fee up to 50 pounds of luggage 55/65 minutes
I've done the airport hotel to on board the plane in 45 minutes
add 20/25 minutes or so for the bus or cab from Marco Polo to the bus station in Venice.
Or take the prohibitively expensive water taxi and iirc you can't use a vaparetto multi-pass for the airport route.

you have to get to the train station ( two subway stops from the coliseum)
just as well as the airport
either way the traffic can suck

to be fair if you take Alitalia security takes longer and so does baggage and costs about double easy jet



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 05:47PM by billb.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 07, 2012 05:28PM
Advocacy of rail travel is only partly based on common sense. Most of it is ideological. They like the concept of "masses" ( for others, I might add). Anything individual is to be fought. Want to drive alone in your car? Nah. That is why you can argue economics all day and they don't care. Rail can lose money all day and it doesn't matter. Amtrak has never made money but you know what? It is good for the earth.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 07, 2012 05:31PM
Quote
Avenger
Advocacy of rail travel is only partly based on common sense. Most of it is ideological. They like the concept of "masses" ( for others, I might add). Anything individual is to be fought. Want to drive alone in your car? Nah. That is why you can argue economics all day and they don't care. Rail can lose money all day and it doesn't matter. Amtrak has never made money but you know what? It is good for the earth.

Has the space program made money? The military? Have both spurred the economy? Sometimes the answer starts with something that isn't profitable.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2012 05:40PM
Hmmm, we must have different travel agents bill.

I can find an August train fare, Rome to Venice for under $40. 4 hour trip.

Easy Jet's lowest August fare is $52, including fees, but not including any luggage except hand luggage. Their checked bag fees are hefty.

(are you sure you calculated the exchange in the right direction?
1 euro equals $1.25)

I'm a big fan of Easy Jet and I've used it several times, I think it's a great value especially when traveling between countries.
There's a reason that those Rome-Venice trains are almost always full, and it's not because people can't find the airport. smiling smiley
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 07, 2012 05:44PM
Why on earth does everything have to make money to make sense? Yes, I get it. It's possible to look at the world and think about it in terms of what monetary return you can make on it, but really, there are so many other ways to be. And I don't think you are seeing the whole picture, anyway. You see that you and your kind will make no money in the short term (same reason you despise green (er) energy), and thus you try to shout the idea down.
Short term thinking is associated with young children whose minds have not fully formed. They are unable to see that having a carton of ice cream later is probably better than having one single scoop right now. What you tend to hear is "It's mine I want it now!"

The examples given above show that monetary return has spread beyond the single concern of Amtrak. Even if Amtrak does not make money, the people who use it do. Amtrak is for the common good. I know common good is not in your vocabulary...it means people who care about other people do things for them. It's an easy concept to understand.

Not all liberals are rich and educated. Some are hicks like you (!), they just think that thinking along communally beneficial lines is preferable to your type of isolationist 'f... you' attitude.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: billb
Date: July 07, 2012 05:59PM
Try Thursday at 5AM :-)
and May - not Summer.
1 checked bag, 1 overhead - and check the carryon size they have a really odd dimension size. If your pocketbook is a bit too big they'll call it carry on .

also $40 for the train sounds like the 7 hour train.
It stops and stops and stops and stops and stops.


also be careful of where it stops in Venice. If it doesn't go all the way down the causeway into SL that's a long walk. Mestre and Mestre SL are on opposite ends of the causeway.


also for easy jet you can buy pounds of weight and also share the over/under with your group , so if one of you has a heavy bag and the other person is under they'll average it. I also think the website claims 40 pounds for luggage and we got there and it was 50.


Also: Easy Jet uses 2 bus shuttles to take you out to board the plane, so buying a priority pass may not get you on the plane ahead of those without. 1 bus shuttle loads from the front, the second from the rear. Then they go and pick up another group of passengers operating in tandem.



--------------------

I think you're right about $56 for EasyJet
I'm remembering 29 +11 and I think it's actually 29 plus 7 euros which would be 44 plus 11



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 06:42PM by billb.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2012 06:48PM
OK good tips bill, thanks! Now if only I were headed to Italy anytime soon.

(The 4 hour train is available for $40. I checked.)
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: August West
Date: July 07, 2012 07:48PM
Both when I lived in Europe, and when I spent a few weeks in April, the trains were heavily used. I don't know where the notion arises that they are unused.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 07, 2012 08:44PM
Show me.

I've previously posted stats showing that Detroit's urban, light rail system only sees a small fraction of the daily ridership that was predicted before it was built.

And light rail systems are far cheaper and easier to build than a high-speed inter-city passenger rail system.

There's no compelling evidence that people will actually ride this, especially since the initial route is nowhere near the urban centers it purports to serve (Fresno to Bakersfield is not LA to SF)

Quote
Pam
Quote
Bill in NC
Short of adding hundreds of dollars in tolls (and the equivalent to airfares), there won't be riders for this boondoggle.

If you want to spend money on rail in the U.S, spend it on heavy rail for freight - electrify the tracks, expand the tracks.

Freight rail is not fast, but remains the cheapest way to move goods by land.

This is simply not true and has been proven wrong in areas that bucked protests. Obviously there's a case for more rural areas but in the busy corridors ridership would exceed expectations.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2012 08:55PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Show me.

I've previously posted stats showing that Detroit's urban, light rail system only sees a small fraction of the daily ridership that was predicted before it was built.
'

I thought Detroit's proposed light rail system was yet to be built.

To what system are you referring?

[www.huffingtonpost.com]
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 07, 2012 09:07PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Show me.

I've previously posted stats showing that Detroit's urban, light rail system only sees a small fraction of the daily ridership that was predicted before it was built.

And light rail systems are far cheaper and easier to build than a high-speed inter-city passenger rail system.

There's no compelling evidence that people will actually ride this, especially since the initial route is nowhere near the urban centers it purports to serve (Fresno to Bakersfield is not LA to SF)

Quote
Pam
Quote
Bill in NC
Short of adding hundreds of dollars in tolls (and the equivalent to airfares), there won't be riders for this boondoggle.

If you want to spend money on rail in the U.S, spend it on heavy rail for freight - electrify the tracks, expand the tracks.

Freight rail is not fast, but remains the cheapest way to move goods by land.

This is simply not true and has been proven wrong in areas that bucked protests. Obviously there's a case for more rural areas but in the busy corridors ridership would exceed expectations.

No reason why we can't do both (Tiger IV Funding just announced btw). You gotta spend money to make money. No reason to base it all on how successful light rail is in Detroit, while in dozens of other cities rail is jam packed with people.

Have some perspective. North Carolina has about 9.5 million people. California has about 38 million. Los Angeles County alone has about 10 million people. The metro area up to 18 million (depending on how it's specified). The other destination, The San Francisco Bay Area has over 7 million people. The central Valley has millions more. California's HSR is actually not ambitious enough to handle the anticipated crowds. Even if it was a boondoggle, at least they tried (same with Detroit). Why should the the most powerful, richest and smartest country in the history of this Earth cry about what we "can't" do. That's why we're in this financial difficulties we're in now. People full of "can't." We can do more than just bomb the crap out of people.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 07, 2012 09:08PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Show me.

I've previously posted stats showing that Detroit's urban, light rail system only sees a small fraction of the daily ridership that was predicted before it was built.

And light rail systems are far cheaper and easier to build than a high-speed inter-city passenger rail system.

There's no compelling evidence that people will actually ride this, especially since the initial route is nowhere near the urban centers it purports to serve (Fresno to Bakersfield is not LA to SF)

Quote
Pam
Quote
Bill in NC
Short of adding hundreds of dollars in tolls (and the equivalent to airfares), there won't be riders for this boondoggle.

If you want to spend money on rail in the U.S, spend it on heavy rail for freight - electrify the tracks, expand the tracks.

Freight rail is not fast, but remains the cheapest way to move goods by land.

This is simply not true and has been proven wrong in areas that bucked protests. Obviously there's a case for more rural areas but in the busy corridors ridership would exceed expectations.

Here's our short, local light rail results [www.wavy.com]. Extending it to the Naval base and Va Beach will bring just as impressive numbers. If there was a way to extend it to the Peninsula and Williamsburg we'd be golden. Businesses along the stops have shown increased revenue.

High speed rail along the I-95 corridor would no doubt be heavily used. Amtrak ridership already bears this out.
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Re: California High Speed Rail - It's a Go... baby
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 07, 2012 09:09PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Bill in NC
Show me.

I've previously posted stats showing that Detroit's urban, light rail system only sees a small fraction of the daily ridership that was predicted before it was built.
'

I thought Detroit's proposed light rail system was yet to be built.

To what system are you referring?

[www.huffingtonpost.com]


I think he means Detroit's People Mover, which is just an around-town shuttle, and has very low ridership.
[en.wikipedia.org]

It's also a red herring. Intracity light rail is not the same thing as the high speed intercity rail in the OP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 09:10PM by Acer.
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