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Another executive order...
Posted by: swampy
Date: July 13, 2012 12:31PM
Now our "king" guts Clinton's Welfare Act.




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 13, 2012 12:37PM
Does anyone have info on this that doesn't originate from the wingnutsosphere?
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 13, 2012 12:46PM
This is what I found, from USA Today feed.

The Obama administration has opened the door to changes in the welfare system's work requirements, a section of the 1996 welfare-to-work law that Republicans consider sacrosanct.

The Department of Health and Human Services notified states Thursday that Secretary Kathleen Sebelius would consider waivers "to allow states to test alternative and innovative strategies, policies, and procedures that are designed to improve employment outcomes for needy families."

[content.usatoday.com]

Republicans think this is intended to remove the work requirements.

Once again, it's all STATES RIGHTS until THEIR pet federal program comes under scrutiny.


Edit (again): BTW, this is not an presidential executive order. It's department level.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 12:53PM by Acer.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 13, 2012 12:54PM
Quote
Acer
.

Thanks Acer.

You mean breitbart.com published something misleading about this?

I can't believe it!!
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 13, 2012 12:56PM
First of all, there was no Executive Order. The DHHS can make changes. In the current economy some states have complained about the work rules and paperwork. So the DHHS is listening and may issue waivers. Oh my God!
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: billb
Date: July 13, 2012 01:03PM
That should lock up the the cadillac-driving welfare queen vote




Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: decay
Date: July 13, 2012 02:32PM
Quote
billb
That should lock up the the cadillac-driving welfare queen vote

jest smiley

[www.cnn.com]

Gustafson, author of "Cheating Welfare," says TANF is not an unconditional entitlement. It comes with time-limits and work requirements and recipients have to go through a bureaucratic gantlet to verify their eligibility.

"A lot of poor people are working," she says. "They are the people giving you change when you buy coffee in the morning or handing you your dry cleaning. These are the people who rely on public benefits."

Still, an actual Welfare Queen did exist, Gustafson says.

A database search of all major newspapers turned up the first use of the term in 1974, when a woman in Chicago was given the label.

Two additional women were also dubbed welfare queens in subsequent years by local newspapers. Both were based in Los Angeles. One collected $377,458 in welfare benefits in seven years and lived in a house with a swimming pool. She did drive a Cadillac, along with a Rolls Royce and Mercedes Benz, Gustafson discovered.

Reagan merged the identities of all three and exaggerated their abuses, Gustafson says.

"Reagan twisted them around and created one character, and tried to leave everyone with the impression that it was happening all over the place," Gustafson says. "It's totally false that these women typified welfare recipients."




[www.giyf.com]
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 13, 2012 02:37PM
[www.boston.com]

"States will not be able to escape the work requirements of the landmark 1996 federal welfare reform law, the administration said, but they may get federal approval to try to accomplish the same goals by using different methods than those spelled out in the legislation."

"The administration said the waiver program is a response to concerns from state officials — Republicans as well as Democrats — that the work requirements in the law are too rigid and create bureaucratic hurdles to actually placing welfare recipients in jobs. Officials say the program does not violate the underlying law because of a provision that allows waivers of state plans.

In its memo to the states, the administration said no waivers will be allowed that could reduce access to employment, nor will they permit exceptions to time limits on welfare assistance. Waivers can be revoked if the experiments don’t work out. Still, a state can seek a waiver to cover its entire welfare population."
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: decay
Date: July 13, 2012 02:48PM
gotta love loopholes, red tape, and bureaucracy. angry villagers smiley mad2 smiley
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: the_poochies
Date: July 13, 2012 03:16PM
I recently notarized a document for a young lady stating that said lady had zero income.

Said lady was carrying an iPhone in a designer case. mad2 smiley
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 13, 2012 03:23PM
Quote
the_poochies
I recently notarized a document for a young lady stating that said lady had zero income.

Said lady was carrying an iPhone in a designer case. mad2 smiley

What is your point? People without jobs should sell all their belongings? You need a phone and email to get a job; she has a better shot at finding a job if she's connected. Are you saying she shouldn't be?
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 13, 2012 03:51PM
Why couldn't she have a prepaid flip phone? This is like saying she has to drive a Lexus to get to work.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 13, 2012 03:56PM
Quote
Avenger
Why couldn't she have a prepaid flip phone? This is like saying she has to drive a Lexus to get to work.

Why don't you go on the tips and deals section and ask the guys who got laid off if they sold their iPhone. This type of knee jerk reaction is stupid. You have no idea where a person makes cuts or the process.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: john dough
Date: July 13, 2012 03:58PM
My wife now has no income (for the time being, she was laid off) but she is not getting rid all of the nice things she owns. Although we don't have a Lexus, she drives a relatively new car (2008) that is paid off.

That comment was not well thought out.


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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 13, 2012 03:58PM
For all you know she has no land line and no internet service for her house and no cable and no nothing, but the iPhone is freaking you out why?


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 03:58PM by $tevie.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 13, 2012 04:03PM
Why should I accept the assumptions that you have no idea to be correct. You can learn a lot by appearances.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 13, 2012 04:11PM
You can also be totally wrong. Why go for the nasty, bitter concept if you can remain neutral about someone you do not even know? You will live longer if you MYOB instead of getting high blood pressure over a make believe problem.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 04:13PM by $tevie.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 13, 2012 04:30PM
Quote
Avenger
Why should I accept the assumptions that you have no idea to be correct. You can learn a lot by appearances.

Absolutely you should not accept the assumptions of others as fact. At the same time, neither should you accept your own as such.

"Why go for the nasty, bitter concept if you can remain neutral about someone you do not even know? "
Well, why?
Life experience can embitter someone but when all's said and done you have the choice of how you want to perceive the world (assuming no actual chemical imbalance which skews things at a biological level).
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 13, 2012 04:31PM
Quote
the_poochies
I recently notarized a document for a young lady stating that said lady had zero income.

Said lady was carrying an iPhone in a designer case. mad2 smiley

If she asked you to notarize the document, she probably did have no income. Having an iPhone in a (probably fake) designer case has no relation to one's income.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: billb
Date: July 13, 2012 04:36PM
Quote
the_poochies
I recently notarized a document for a young lady stating that said lady had zero income.

Said lady was carrying an iPhone in a designer case. mad2 smiley

It's possible one of her relatives/friend actually owns/pays for the phone.
Maybe even her pimp. devil smiley




Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: July 13, 2012 05:08PM
The right seems to be gullible but angry. Curious combination. They begin by thinking the worst about the president and his party, so they automatically bite on whatever shiny lure is dragged past them. Then it is shown to be false, or in this case a non sequitur, and we don't hear from them about it much again. But we know that it will be parroted all over talk radio and the ideologue web sites.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 13, 2012 05:11PM
I hate to prolong the agony of this silly conversation, but since I don't know why she needed the document I feel compelled to point out that "no income" is not the same thing as "no money". If she lost her job and has no income that does not mean she doesn't have a savings account or a boyfriend or a parent or a spouse.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 13, 2012 05:47PM
Actually, in Obama's economy it is impossible not to have income. If you don't you are really incompetent. $450 a week can be gotten by a few mouse clicks. It was demonstrated in front of me accompanied by a you-idiots expression.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 13, 2012 06:26PM
Quote
Avenger
Actually, in Obama's economy it is impossible not to have income. If you don't you are really incompetent. $450 a week can be gotten by a few mouse clicks. It was demonstrated in front of me accompanied by a you-idiots expression.

Those few mouse clicks are not a guarantee. Go ahead and apply. See what happens. And FYI, fraud was around long before Obama and no you cannot blame the increase in the use of available technology on him either.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 13, 2012 07:36PM
I would love to see Avenger put up or shut up with this ridiculous claim that anyone can get unemployment compensation or welfare. I want him to try it, for real, and see how far he gets.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 13, 2012 09:31PM
Quote
$tevie
I would love to see Avenger put up or shut up with this ridiculous claim that anyone can get unemployment compensation or welfare. I want him to try it, for real, and see how far he gets.

I want him to be sure and notify us after Karma smites his ass when he's out of a job, upside down in his house, can't get unemployment, and loses his health insurance. (Unless he has a government job.)
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 13, 2012 10:31PM
>>I would love to see Avenger put up or shut up <<

I did in another thread. The guy said he will refuse to get a job until his $450 weekly unemployment checks run out. He was on it a year already. For someone who lives with his parents, this is plenty enough. I have also said that grandma and grandpa immigrants days after getting their citizenship, or even green card, apply for SSI and Medicaid. In CA, it is close to a $1000 without having paid a dime into the system. Their Medical coverage is outstanding. ZERO copay or deductibles for office visits or drugs. NOTHING for hospitalization.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: decay
Date: July 13, 2012 10:55PM
i know people who are employed that have an iPhone on someone else's plan.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 13, 2012 11:12PM
Avenger,
What sort of country do you think you live in? Do you see elderly or blind people begging on the streets so they can eat? That's because we Americans are decent people, at least we want to believe we are.

I guess you wish you were lucky enough to be poor (no more than $2K in accounts to your name,) elderly, disabled and/or blind and unemployed with no source of income. Living on $1K a month in California, wow, that'd be FANTASTIC!
Yes California offers Medi-Cal and the state's cash assistance program to legal immigrants who are poor, elderly, blind or disabled.
(And as you love to remind people, it's not that easy to be a legal resident is it? )
Seriously, begrudging people at the bottom of society the bare minimums is really something.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: john dough
Date: July 13, 2012 11:16PM
Lemon, you are fighting a losing battle: Avenger would rather be right (in his mind) than decent. Give him time, he will say something even more repugnant.

He nowher near represents the best we have to offer.


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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 14, 2012 03:19AM
"I did in another thread. The guy said he will refuse to get a job until his $450 weekly unemployment checks run out. He was on it a year already." - Dakota

I remember that. It was one of your relatives, right?
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 14, 2012 10:11AM
>>Yes California offers Medi-Cal and the state's cash assistance program to legal immigrants who are poor, elderly, blind or disabled.<<

That is your problem. Since you are not in the community you regurgitate the party line . So let me give you a primer how the system works. Nobody is blind, poor or disabled. The kids get their citizenship, apply for their parents to get citizenship and once they are here, they apply for all the goodies I have mentioned. Of course they have no money in the bank. All their belonging are back in the home country. In this country they are a blank slate They have no, as in zero, bills because they live with their kids but this fact does not enter into their eligibility. Every dollar they get in benefits is play money. This sort of trade is well known back home so grandmas and pas know that with their citizenship they get a check every month too. And get this. They don't often stay here. They go back but the checks keep coming so they sell their dollars. Lots of time, the money ends up with the kids. Oh, about that disability? You won't believe what passes as disability these days. Personally, I don't know of anyone in that age group who does NOT get a check.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 14, 2012 10:38AM
Make up your mind avenger. Here you are suggesting that it's quite easy to become a legal resident of the US. That's what is required to get services like Medi-Cal and cash assistance.
In thread after thread before you have whined that people "wait in line for decades" for a chance to come to the US, then when they finally do it's the best thing that ever happened to them.
Which of your stories has any truth (if either?)
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 14, 2012 10:56AM
Where did I say it is easy. The people I am talking about HAVE waited 10 years or more but everybody's turn will eventually come. Where is the contradiction?

Instead of acknowledging that there is a massive fraud in the system, you take it personally as if you wrote the law.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 14, 2012 11:01AM
You haven't shown any proof of "massive fraud."

The spirit and administration of this program is fine. There is no way to 100% guarantee against any abuse of it.

If I went with your logic there would be no roads because some people drive badly and cause accidents. Roads are good.
Assistance to keep the elderly out of poverty is good.

Deal with it.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Pam
Date: July 14, 2012 11:05AM
Massive fraud, welfare queens, medicare/medicade/social security... are all diversions to keep the unwashed from seeing how much is spent on corporate welfare.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 14, 2012 11:51AM
Quote
Pam
Massive fraud, welfare queens, medicare/medicade/social security... are all diversions to keep the unwashed from seeing how much is spent on corporate welfare.

Yep.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: August West
Date: July 14, 2012 12:59PM
Quote
Dakota
Nobody is blind, poor or disabled.

Enough said to recognize an @#$%&hat.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 14, 2012 01:07PM
Quote
August West
Quote
Dakota
Nobody is blind, poor or disabled.

Dakota's immigration system is completely different from ours.

Somehow, it has been invested with miracle-cure for those ailments.

What a wonderful world Dakota must live in!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2012 01:08PM by Chakravartin.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 14, 2012 03:32PM
It is obvious that Dakota is a lazy-arse who resents the idea that he has to work because he imagines that millions of people are sitting around collecting and he is not. Nobody with any ambition or energy would spend as much time bemoaning their fate as he does.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 14, 2012 03:49PM
Keep paying suckers. Keep paying. I got people lined up to come in and I will personally fill out their applications. A $ 1000 a month buys you lavish retirement back home. Keep paying.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 14, 2012 04:19PM
We know all about your grifter relatives. You already told us.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: August West
Date: July 14, 2012 05:10PM
Quote

Keep paying suckers. Keep paying. I got people lined up to come in and I will personally fill out their applications.

Scumbag fantasies.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 14, 2012 07:24PM
Unemployment is paid by the employers, not by us. That is why employers will often fight unemployment claims when they can, because their unemployment taxes go up if they have people making claims.

Also, you have to have worked a certain amount of time in a certain amount of quarters. If you had no job, you can't file for unemployment because there was no employer paying into the system to pay for it.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2012 07:26PM by $tevie.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 14, 2012 07:36PM
Quote
$tevie
Also, you have to have worked a certain amount of time in a certain amount of quarters. If you had no job, you can't file for unemployment because there was no employer paying into the system to pay for it.

Yeah, that bit me when I moved out West. The company downsized after 6 months and California refused my unemployment claim because they looked to my wages from one year before the claim arose. Since I only had 6 months of wage-earning in the state, they disqualified me.

...They were kind enough to pass on my request to my previous state of residence, which turned down the application for lack of residency.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 14, 2012 07:47PM
That seems really unfair.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 15, 2012 01:53AM
>>Unemployment is paid by the employers, not by us.<<

First of all, I am talking about SSI that fresh off the boat grannies get. I realize since you have no defense for that you are changing the subject. Second, if unemployment is not a federal matter then what is all this fight in Congress and with Obama over extending. What are they extending?

You are getting easier and easier to smack down.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 15, 2012 10:15AM
Quote
Avenger
Actually, in Obama's economy it is impossible not to have income. If you don't you are really incompetent. $450 a week can be gotten by a few mouse clicks. It was demonstrated in front of me accompanied by a you-idiots expression.

Quote
Avenger
The guy said he will refuse to get a job until his $450 weekly unemployment checks run out. He was on it a year already. For someone who lives with his parents, this is plenty enough.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 15, 2012 10:19AM
They both say the same thing. Thanks for the research. I will bookmark it. In the mean time , pay up suckers.
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Re: Another executive order...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 15, 2012 10:33AM
As for the federal involvement, you are now talking about emergency funding, which a person cannot collect unless they had qualified for unemployment in the first place, and which does not kick in unless a person has been drawing the original UI and the time has run out.
Quote

The federal-state unemployment insurance system helps people who have lost their jobs and are eligible for benefits by temporarily replacing part of their lost wages. Created in 1935, UI is a form of social insurance in which employers pay taxes (which economists believe are financed by reductions in their employees' compensation) into the UI system and states use those funds to provide income support to workers and their families if they lose their jobs.

To qualify for UI benefits, a person must have lost a job through no fault of his or her own and be ready, willing, and able to take a "suitable" new job. Unemployment insurance does not cover people who leave a job voluntarily, people looking for their first job, or re-entrants who previously left the labor force voluntarily.

In the current downturn, workers in any state who exhaust their regular UI benefits before they can find a job can receive up to 34 additional weeks of benefits through the temporary federal Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) program enacted in 2008. That number rises to 53 weeks in states with especially high unemployment rates. Workers who exhaust their regular UI and EUC benefits can receive up to 20 additional weeks of benefits through the permanent federal-state Extended Benefits (EB) program if their state's unemployment insurance laws allow it.

Congress has created a program to provide additional weeks of UI benefits in every major recession since the 1950s.

[www.cbpp.org]


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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