[www.youtube.com]

I think it's okay for people to own guns.

...After they take mandatory training/safety courses and so long as they undergo biennial recertifications and have a secure gun-case and trigger-locks for every piece.

SECURE gun cases and trigger-locks.

Very important: "SECURE."

...

PS. Keep your 3 year olds away from pointy objects.

[www.forbes.com]

We tested these containers, and the reality is they can be opened in a variety of ways including with a tiny piece of brass by a three year old.

I took an NRA course. The guns are in a safe. The guns have trigger locks. The ammo s in a separate locked case. In the safe. The keys are in a separate lockbox.

Can I keep them ?

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cbelt3
I took an NRA course. The guns are in a safe. The guns have trigger locks. The ammo s in a separate locked case. In the safe. The keys are in a separate lockbox.

Can I keep them ?

Can a 3 year old open your gun safe using just a paperclip?

Can your trigger locks be circumvented by a 10 year old kid?
[www.engadget.com]

Wow - just lifting them a few inches and letting them drop is enough to jar the mechanism open?!!??

I never did like battery-operated locking mechanisms; what are you supposed to do if you REALLY need to get into the thing, and the battery is dead (well, I guess we all know the answer now - just give it a good smack)...

No. All cylinder locks. A smartass with a Bic pen lid, however..

>>I took an NRA course. The guns are in a safe. The guns have trigger locks. The ammo s in a separate locked case. In the safe. The keys are in a separate lockbox.<<

If you add one more lock it would be the house I'd pick to break in.

Locks in the doors. But you'd have to get past my security system.. Chihuahuas of DOOOOOM!!!

I agree that gun safes suck.

I keep my 12 gauge pump under the bed. I do keep it unloaded though. The box of 3" magnum hollow point slugs is right beside it, as is the box of 3" magnum 00 buck. More boxes of ammo are in the night stand.

Seriously.

What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe? Am I supposed to beat an intruder over the head with the gun?

It must really suck to live in an area that is so bad that you need to sleep with a gun under the bed. My heart goes out to anyone in this situation. I would try to find a safer area where the threat of home invasions wasn't such a pall hanging over day to day life. Can't be healthy to live with that kind of stress day in and day out. It seems after awhile it would have to affect a persons metal state- like living in a war zone.

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What lafinfil said!

Freeradical, that sounds like absolute insanity. Get the hell out of wherever you are, man! That's no way to live.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2012 11:56PM by davester.

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freeradical
I agree that gun safes suck.

I keep my 12 gauge pump under the bed. I do keep it unloaded though. The box of 3" magnum hollow point slugs is right beside it, as is the box of 3" magnum 00 buck. More boxes of ammo are in the night stand.

Seriously.

What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe? Am I supposed to beat an intruder over the head with the gun?

Why do you stay there?

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Quote
cbelt3

Can I keep them ?

You saw through Chaka's plan to take your guns away- good work.

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Who else never misses an opportunity to brag about how armed to the teeth you are? C'mon folks, the night is young.

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>What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe?<<

The people who suggest those things know full well that a gun that is locked up 6 different ways is not a gun anymore. You have to realize what the agenda is; disarming you or creating conditions to render firearms useless so you give it up voluntarily.

>>Why do you stay there?<<

By your logic all ghettoes and projects should have been vacated now.

Nobody here believes you care about guns or gun laws one bit, drone.

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Quote
Avenger
>What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe?<<

The people who suggest those things know full well that a gun that is locked up 6 different ways is not a gun anymore. You have to realize what the agenda is; disarming you or creating conditions to render firearms useless so you give it up voluntarily.

Yeah, I understand full well that these so called "reasonable" gun control laws are simply backhanded attempts to disarm me.

Quote
Avenger
>What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe?<<

The people who suggest those things know full well that a gun that is locked up 6 different ways is not a gun anymore.

If you were locked in a safe, what would that make you?

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freeradical

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Avenger
>What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe?<<

The people who suggest those things know full well that a gun that is locked up 6 different ways is not a gun anymore. You have to realize what the agenda is; disarming you or creating conditions to render firearms useless so you give it up voluntarily.

Yeah, I understand full well that these so called "reasonable" gun control laws are simply backhanded attempts to disarm me.

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[www.flickr.com] [picasaweb.google.com]

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Chakravartin

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Avenger
>What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe?<<

The people who suggest those things know full well that a gun that is locked up 6 different ways is not a gun anymore.

If you were locked in a safe, what would that make you?

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My guns are not for defense. They are a hobby.. Target shooting. Like any object, they can be dual purpose. My fencing swords can also be lethal. So can my frying pan !

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cbelt3
My fencing swords can also be lethal.

Only if you filed off the little button at the end and stabbed a hemophiliac.

Well...I see that the topic of the original post has been completely ignored...

Probably still off topic, but I think this thread shows the problem with gun laws...guns are fine, as cbelt3 points out, a frying pan can also be used to kill people, it's the people that own them that are the problem.

For example, my child wants to play at cbelt3's house or at freeradical's house (let's assume they have similar aged kids and are not going there to 'play' with grown men!). I've had conversations with both parties and talked about how and why they have guns and how they are stored in the house.
I think, given what they have both divulged above and assuming it's all true, most people would feel justified in supporting my decision to not want my child to be playing at freeradicals.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be thrilled about my kid being in any house where I knew there was a gun, but this is the world we live in. (Why not? Because eventually let's say due to the onset of Alzheimers which is undetectable in the early stages, the gun safes is not locked properly and a round is left in the chamber...they call these circumstances accidents, but I say a gun in the house is an accident waiting to happen.)

Now freeradical might be a good neighbour who looks out for his friends, but his, I would say, blasé attitude towards gun ownership causes me to question whether or not he should really be owning guns at all.

And this is the crux of the issue for me.
A few rotten apples (it's a metaphor 'Rad, not personal) do spoil the barrel. If there are some people who have guns in their houses who do not know how to properly contain them, and those guns are not licensed and the owners are not trained and certified in their use, then no one should be allowed to own them.

The benefits -the enjoyment obtained from target shooting for example (which I have done, as I said elsewhere)- do not outweigh the obvious potential negatives. Sorry cbelt3, get yourself another hobby!
You are man of means, mental and physical, you can easily find something that you would enjoy just as much.

For the people who feel that guns are an intrinsic part of the 'American Experience' I say you are not only outdated but also slightly crazy.

And that is that set of thoughts.

I've got two stories of friends who got hold of a gun while visiting a playmate when children. One was shot (in the neck but wasn't critically wounded) and one was not -- it does make one wonder about people with children who leave loaded guns in desk drawers!

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Within seconds of my post and in this very small group of people a personal story pops up that all but proves my point. Extrapolate into the wider population and even if the perceived danger has been multiplied twofold, that is still too much to bear as a culture.

>>So can my frying pan !

I keep my frying pan at the shooting range.

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56% of all gun deaths are suicides

40,000 people a year are killed in car crashes , 13 % are pedestrians.

70% of those crashes are alcohol related.
Where are the bottle cap locks ?
Where are the locking liquor cabinets ?

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Quote
SDGuy
Well...I see that the topic of the original post has been completely ignored...

Good work cbelt!

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Quote
billb
56% of all gun deaths are suicides

40,000 people a year are killed in car crashes , 13 % are pedestrians.

70% of those crashes are alcohol related.
Where are the bottle cap locks ?
Where are the locking liquor cabinets ?

You do know that some folks are working on a way to put breathalyzers in cars for that very reason, yes? France has already mandated them.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Sorry about ignoring the OP, I didn't realize there was more than the one video to look at and I found the first video kind of unconvincing personally.

A Ralph @#$%& type is going to have to go after these crappy safes, is all I can think. And the government should probably try to make sure that parents know they are useless.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

>>a frying pan can also be used to kill people, it's the people that own them that are the problem.<<

Straight out of NRA brochures. Welcome to the club. I know so many like you who they think they are A but in reality they are Z.

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$tevie

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billb
56% of all gun deaths are suicides

40,000 people a year are killed in car crashes , 13 % are pedestrians.

70% of those crashes are alcohol related.
Where are the bottle cap locks ?
Where are the locking liquor cabinets ?

You do know that some folks are working on a way to put breathalyzers in cars for that very reason, yes? France has already mandated them.

Bwah, hah, hah a breathalizer tester that one DOES NOT HAVE TO USE only has to be in the car doesn't impact drunk driving a billionth of a percent.

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Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

Okay, whatever. It does prove that you aren't the first person to notice that drunk drivers cause accidents, Einstein. Don't get your knickers in a knot.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Quote

Firearms are used in only 5 percent of attempts, the study said, even though, with a 90 percent fatality rate, they cause more than half the deaths. So even a small decline in the number of attempts involving guns could mean many fewer deaths, the researchers said.

[www.nytimes.com]

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Quote
$tevie

Quote

Firearms are used in only 5 percent of attempts, the study said, even though, with a 90 percent fatality rate, they cause more than half the deaths. So even a small decline in the number of attempts involving guns could mean many fewer deaths, the researchers said.

[www.nytimes.com]

Solid research to refute a spurious argument!

There's no going back once the trigger's been pulled.
Which was partly the point of an earlier thread about the moral and legal difference between beating someone to death and shooting them there.

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billb

Quote
$tevie

Quote
billb
56% of all gun deaths are suicides

40,000 people a year are killed in car crashes , 13 % are pedestrians.

70% of those crashes are alcohol related.
Where are the bottle cap locks ?
Where are the locking liquor cabinets ?

You do know that some folks are working on a way to put breathalyzers in cars for that very reason, yes? France has already mandated them.

Bwah, hah, hah a breathalizer tester that one DOES NOT HAVE TO USE only has to be in the car doesn't impact drunk driving a billionth of a percent.

1) 40k a year is for the US only, and has dropped into the 30k's as driving is down due to high gas prices and less jobs to drive to. Globally the number is 3,300 per day, or 1.2 million/year.
2) You should get in touch with the people behind the program for voluntary breathalyzer use in France and share your data and methodology in arriving at the "billionth of a percent" figure-- obviously they need to hear they're devoting resources to something that will have virtually no benefit.

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Considering how many people here have already challenged lafinfil about why he chooses to stay living where he lives - especially with the stress that must come with living in a place that "must" have guns - I have to wonder aloud why any of you would choose to stay in a place with so many gun people living freely?

I mean you make it seem so very dangerous here in America that it would make sense to move to a nation with gun laws that reflect you own personal bias.

That was freeradical, not lafinfil.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Originally I thought this was story an unfortunate accident, but after learning that 3 year old kids can get in crappy gun safes I'm beginning to wonder if the kid actually planned it. After all there is no way any responsible adult would leave a loaded gun where a 3 year old could get to it.

[www.usatoday.com]

Indiana police say boy, 3, fatally shot father

A 33-year-old father was shot and killed Friday by his 3-year-old son, who accidentally fired a handgun he found in their home. Michael A. Bayless was on a couch watching television in a Salem house he was renovating when the gun discharged at about 9:55 p.m. ET, according to a news release from the Indiana State Police.

Sgt. Jerry Goodin said the .45-caliber handgun belonged to Bayless but he did not know where in the house it was being kept.Goodin said he did not know how close the toddler was to Bayless when the gun fired or where the bullet struck Bayless' body. The Washington County coroner, who was scheduled to conduct an autopsy, could not be reached immediately.

Bayless' wife, three children and a young cousin were at the house at the time but no one else was injured.

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Quote
SDGuy
Wow - just lifting them a few inches and letting them drop is enough to jar the mechanism open?!!??

I never did like battery-operated locking mechanisms; what are you supposed to do if you REALLY need to get into the thing, and the battery is dead (well, I guess we all know the answer now - just give it a good smack)...

You mean when you use it against a human like guns are most commonly used - to shoot oneself?

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Quote
freeradical
I agree that gun safes suck.

I keep my 12 gauge pump under the bed. I do keep it unloaded though. The box of 3" magnum hollow point slugs is right beside it, as is the box of 3" magnum 00 buck. More boxes of ammo are in the night stand.

Seriously.

What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe? Am I supposed to beat an intruder over the head with the gun?

Yes, that would be the safest course if you have to use a gun. Better to give the intruder whatever loot they want.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Quote
billb
56% of all gun deaths are suicides

40,000 people a year are killed in car crashes , 13 % are pedestrians.

70% of those crashes are alcohol related.
Where are the bottle cap locks ?
Where are the locking liquor cabinets ?

Alcohol, when used as the manufacturer intended, isn't designed to kill.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

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Kooper's Flute Thing cover

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norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Speedy

Quote
billb
56% of all gun deaths are suicides

40,000 people a year are killed in car crashes , 13 % are pedestrians.

70% of those crashes are alcohol related.
Where are the bottle cap locks ?
Where are the locking liquor cabinets ?

Alcohol, when used as the manufacturer intended, isn't designed to kill.

and in the same vein guns are designed to propel projectiles

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[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Speedy


Yes, that would be the safest course if you have to use a gun. Better to give the intruder whatever loot they want.

Loot may not be all that they want. I'll put up that 38 Special for bids when you are cornered in the back of the house. How much?

I'll give you a set of balls Avenger, because you need some.

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Manlove
I'll give you a set of balls Avenger, because you need some.

Then he wouldn't need a gun.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

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Manlove
I'll give you a set of balls Avenger, because you need some.

I am still waiting for your bid? Is he upstairs yet? You wait a little longer and you may not afford it