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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 30, 2012 11:34AM
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Avenger
Quote
Manlove
I'll give you a set of balls Avenger, because you need some.

I am still waiting for your bid? Is he upstairs yet? You wait a little longer and you may not afford it

You're more likely to shoot yourself than a burglar.


Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 30, 2012 12:30PM
I don't have to bid. I have one already. I can just hear the conversation. Honey, where is your gun? He is walking up. Umm, errr, I don't have one. I was told I could hurt myself, but don't worry, I will grab that curtain rod.
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 30, 2012 12:41PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
SDGuy
Wow - just lifting them a few inches and letting them drop is enough to jar the mechanism open?!!??

I never did like battery-operated locking mechanisms; what are you supposed to do if you REALLY need to get into the thing, and the battery is dead (well, I guess we all know the answer now - just give it a good smack)...

You mean when you use it against a human like guns are most commonly used - to shoot oneself?

So - in your view of reality, the ONLY reason to own a firearm is to commit suicide?
You have a very warped view of things...
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: davester
Date: July 30, 2012 01:53PM
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
Speedy
Quote
SDGuy
Wow - just lifting them a few inches and letting them drop is enough to jar the mechanism open?!!??

I never did like battery-operated locking mechanisms; what are you supposed to do if you REALLY need to get into the thing, and the battery is dead (well, I guess we all know the answer now - just give it a good smack)...

You mean when you use it against a human like guns are most commonly used - to shoot oneself?

So - in your view of reality, the ONLY reason to own a firearm is to commit suicide?
You have a very warped view of things...

It does seem to be the primary reason. There are something like 35,000 gun deaths a year in the US. About 2/3 of those are suicides. Both the suicide and non-suicide numbers are absolutely insane.



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: hal
Date: July 30, 2012 03:48PM
Quote
freeradical
Seriously.

What good is a home defense weapon if it has a trigger lock and it's stored in a safe? Am I supposed to beat an intruder over the head with the gun?

What about when you're NOT home? What good is a gun if you come home one day to find a burglar pointing it at you as you walk through the door. Let's also assume that he was unarmed when he first broke in. You just became the reason that you are now in danger.

As best I can tell, you live within five miles of me... and I don't fee the need that you do...

The ONLY time that my house was burglarized, my roommate walked in while they were upstairs (she assumed it was me making the noise). And at the sight of the small young woman, the burglars bolted off the balcony and got the hell outta there. I hate to image what could have been if they had found a gun while rummaging through he house...

In this case, a small, frightened woman was all that was needed to scare the bad guys away.

[i was able to provide a serial number to a stolen camera and she was able to ID one of them = 8 years in jail!!!]
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: July 30, 2012 04:40PM
Quote
$tevie
That was freeradical, not lafinfil.


Ooops!
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: billb
Date: July 30, 2012 04:43PM
<<In this case, a small, frightened woman was all that was needed to scare the bad guys away.>>


in the real world there are sick bastards




Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: July 30, 2012 05:18PM
Not too long ago, a friend of mine came home only to get jumped by Haitian gangbangers who were robbing his house. He was forced face down on the ground and a shotgun barrel placed at the base of his head and told they were going to kill him.

Luckily, they didn't kill him and only robbed him of more than a few items.

These weren't casual criminals that would have been scared away. These were hardened pros, ready to kill and ready to fight it out, if necessary.

In either of these two cases, there's no saying that a gun would have turned the tides. Maybe it might have killed one of the criminals - maybe. Chances are better that the victim would have been shot and possibly killed too. There's really no telling for sure.

One thing that I do know is like Billb states above: there are some sick bastards out there in the world, and I'd rather not meet them.
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 30, 2012 05:36PM
Quote
davester
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
Speedy
Quote
SDGuy
Wow - just lifting them a few inches and letting them drop is enough to jar the mechanism open?!!??

I never did like battery-operated locking mechanisms; what are you supposed to do if you REALLY need to get into the thing, and the battery is dead (well, I guess we all know the answer now - just give it a good smack)...

You mean when you use it against a human like guns are most commonly used - to shoot oneself?

So - in your view of reality, the ONLY reason to own a firearm is to commit suicide?
You have a very warped view of things...

It does seem to be the primary reason. There are something like 35,000 gun deaths a year in the US. About 2/3 of those are suicides. Both the suicide and non-suicide numbers are absolutely insane.

Although still a large number, seems more like 50%...



But to place this in perspective, there are close to 600K deaths due to heart disease, 567K deaths due to cancer, 79K due to Alzheimers, 69K due to diabetes, 54K due to Influenza & Pneumonia - so suicide - a VOLUNTARY action should hardly be something to worry about; what you are advocating is akin to saying that no one should own an automobile because they're liable to become a drunk driver and kill someone (34K of them), or all males should be emasculated, because they're likely to become a rapist (over 84K of them a year)...
I get it - YOU don't like firearms; I don't see how that fear translates to the position you're taking...the world must be a very scary place for you...
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 30, 2012 05:52PM
Hey guys, we did suicide back on page one of this thread, where we learned:

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$tevie
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Firearms are used in only 5 percent of attempts, the study said, even though, with a 90 percent fatality rate, they cause more than half the deaths. So even a small decline in the number of attempts involving guns could mean many fewer deaths, the researchers said.

[www.nytimes.com]


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 30, 2012 06:06PM
So...uhhh...when will someone...anyone, comment on the topic of the original post?
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: Avenger
Date: July 30, 2012 07:58PM
What was it?
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 31, 2012 02:59AM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
billb
56% of all gun deaths are suicides

40,000 people a year are killed in car crashes , 13 % are pedestrians.

70% of those crashes are alcohol related.
Where are the bottle cap locks ?
Where are the locking liquor cabinets ?

Alcohol, when used as the manufacturer intended, isn't designed to kill.

thumbs up
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 31, 2012 01:20PM
Quote
SDGuy
So...uhhh...when will someone...anyone, comment on the topic of the original post?

I already have. I have nothing left to say on the topic of poorly made gun safes.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: davester
Date: July 31, 2012 05:08PM
Quote
SDGuy
Although still a large number, seems more like 50%...



But to place this in perspective, there are close to 600K deaths due to heart disease, 567K deaths due to cancer, 79K due to Alzheimers, 69K due to diabetes, 54K due to Influenza & Pneumonia - so suicide - a VOLUNTARY action should hardly be something to worry about; what you are advocating is akin to saying that no one should own an automobile because they're liable to become a drunk driver and kill someone (34K of them), or all males should be emasculated, because they're likely to become a rapist (over 84K of them a year)...

I'm sorry, but when you bring in the total number of deaths per year of the major diseases into the comparison it is apparent that logic has been thrown out the window. You might just as well just say "everybody dies, so 35,000 gun deaths per year ain't bad". There's no arguing something like that.

Quote
SDGuy
I get it - YOU don't like firearms; I don't see how that fear translates to the position you're taking...the world must be a very scary place for you...

There you go, creating a strawman and then pretending it's me. Must be entertaining to argue with your own constructs. It's the gun nuts who seem to be afraid of the big bad scary world. They are ruled by fear while the rest of us aren't afraid to face the world without being armed to the teeth. The only parts of the world that I consider to be scary places are the places where the easy availability of high levels of firepower has resulted in a free for all among criminals (my neighboring city Oakland, for example). They kill roughly 10 a month there, many of them innocent bystanders. We can thank the NRA and their supporters for the proliferation of unregistered, untraceable, high-powered semiautomatic weapons and handguns amongst that crowd.



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 05:10PM by davester.
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 31, 2012 07:24PM
Quote
davester
Quote
SDGuy
...the world must be a very scary place for you...

It's the gun nuts who seem to be afraid of the big bad scary world.

Hey, I think you got us confused with a different forumite, SDGuy. We're not the ones sleeping with shotguns under our beds.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 31, 2012 07:48PM
davester - you seem to be all over the map in this discussion (as well as one of the first to derail the original topic);
What IS your point? - You (and $tevie) claim people who own guns are scared, then feel obliged to mention how you're scared of Oakland where there are "unregistered, untraceable, high-powered semiautomatic weapons and handguns" (yet, this is in California, where there are numerous laws to prevent criminals from getting firearms). You support the argument that a primary reason to own firearms is to commit suicide, which really accounts for a very small percentage of deaths each year, and then seem oblivious to the hundreds of thousands of other preventable annual deaths. As far as I can tell, you seem to have an irrational fear of firearms, which overrides any other possible discussion topic.
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 31, 2012 09:49PM
I never said people who own guns are scared. I said a person who sleeps with a shotgun under their bed appears to be scared.

One of my best friends sleeps with a shotgun by their marital bed. In 30 years the only action it ever saw was when a drunk at a party found it and had to be disarmed. I think it is only there because it makes her husband feel like hot s**t. Or else he is scared?


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: July 31, 2012 10:46PM
Quote
$tevie
One of my best friends sleeps with a shotgun by their marital bed. In 30 years the only action it ever saw was when a drunk at a party found it and had to be disarmed. I think it is only there because it makes her husband feel like hot s**t. Or else he is scared?

Without knowing the guy, I would guess that he feels "prepared" by having a shotgun by his "marital bed" (is this how people really talk in your part of the country???). You know the wife and the guy in question - does he act like hot s**t because he's got a gun next to his bed? Is he scared? Have you had this discussion with him? Have you discussed this with your friend - his wife?

As with any individual, the stories, reasons and motives will be different for each.
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 01, 2012 10:05AM
I said marital bed because it eliminated about a dozen words in flagging that my friend is married. Trust me.

Whatever. I don't think it's normal to have a shotgun under/by a bed when a handgun of some sort would probably be more sensible and easier to get to/use in an emergency. To me, the shotgun is a security blanket and not a utilitarian choice.

And yeah, her husband is a arse but I wasn't going to go there.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Gun safes suck...
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 01, 2012 10:56AM
$tevie-
While you don't think it's normal, others do. Just in the same way that others think PCs are better than Macs. I don't understand it, nor do I really have to understand. It is just the way it is.

Now, with regards to her husband being an arse - well, that's a whole 'nother story. He probably is the type who thinks he's The Big Man On Campus. Sorry he's in your circles.
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