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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 30, 2012 07:27PM
Quote
Lemon Drop

I think it's a little more accepted than you imagine.

I'm sorry I started this tangent with my comment earlier. But what you say here is the only point I was trying to make then - an MD getting credentialed in acupuncture isn't such an unusual thing that, by itself, would be something that should call into question the physician's competence. I wasn't trying to argue about the merits or lack of merits of acupuncture itself.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 30, 2012 07:42PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Is the Mayo Clinic paid to endorse acupuncture? Because they do. They say go for it, ask your doctor to refer you to an acupuncturist.

[www.mayoclinic.com]

From your link:

The benefits of acupuncture are sometimes difficult to measure, but many people find it helpful as a means to control a variety of painful conditions.

Several studies, however, indicate that some types of simulated acupuncture appear to work just as well as real acupuncture. There also is evidence that acupuncture works best in people who expect it to work.

Since acupuncture has few side effects, it may be worth a try if you're having trouble controlling pain with more-conventional methods.

In other words, "placebos sometimes make people feel better."

Which is just what I've said.

And since there are serious risks involved in acupuncture you're probably better off going with real medicine if you can handle it.


Quote
Lemon Drop
How about Harvard Medical School? Because they teach it.

'You sure you want to stake your argument for legitimacy on that?
[www.sciencebasedmedicine.org]


Quote
Lemon Drop
I think it's a little more accepted than you imagine.

I never said that it wasn't "accepted." I wrote "The medical community does not endorse acupuncture." You may believe that drinking lots of beer makes you smarter, and lots of people will sell you all the beer you want, but the popularity of the beverage does not make your belief true.

Again, not trying to change your mind at this point. It's simply a horrible and potentially deadly disservice that you do to others when you post that misinformation on a public forum and it should not go unchallenged.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2012 07:42PM by Chakravartin.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 30, 2012 07:46PM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Lemon Drop

I think it's a little more accepted than you imagine.

I'm sorry I started this tangent with my comment earlier. But what you say here is the only point I was trying to make then - an MD getting credentialed in acupuncture isn't such an unusual thing that, by itself, would be something that should call into question the physician's competence. I wasn't trying to argue about the merits or lack of merits of acupuncture itself.

I think that it does call into question a physician's competence. Men/Women of science do not practice thaumaturgy.

But it's plausible that she took the class just as a distraction. Like a class in deep sea salvage or water-ballet. Something that she'd never actually do, but it's kind of interesting.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 30, 2012 07:58PM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Lemon Drop

I think it's a little more accepted than you imagine.

I'm sorry I started this tangent with my comment earlier. But what you say here is the only point I was trying to make then - an MD getting credentialed in acupuncture isn't such an unusual thing that, by itself, would be something that should call into question the physician's competence. I wasn't trying to argue about the merits or lack of merits of acupuncture itself.

No worries - I had no plan to go there either but it's obviously a sensitive topic for some.
I thought I mentioned it earlier in the thread, I read in a more detailed biography of Dr. Fenton that she practiced acupuncture along with other pain management therapies when she was a private practice physician in Aurora. So, she didn't leave the practice of medicine to become an acupuncturist, as the other story implied.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 30, 2012 08:00PM
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Lemon Drop

I think it's a little more accepted than you imagine.

I'm sorry I started this tangent with my comment earlier. But what you say here is the only point I was trying to make then - an MD getting credentialed in acupuncture isn't such an unusual thing that, by itself, would be something that should call into question the physician's competence.

I think that it does call into question a physician's competence.

I guess we disagree about that.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 30, 2012 08:58PM
I'm wondering if acupuncture might not be able to relieve you of that bug up your arse, Chakravartin.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 30, 2012 09:12PM
Quote
$tevie
I'm wondering if acupuncture might not be able to relieve you of that bug up your arse, Chakravartin.

Try it and tell me how it works with yours.

And enjoy your hepatitis.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Black
Date: July 30, 2012 09:16PM
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
$tevie
I'm wondering if acupuncture might not be able to relieve you of that bug up your arse, Chakravartin.

Try it and tell me how it works with yours.

And enjoy your hepatitis.

What percentage of acupuncture recipients get hepatitis?
And what's the general incidence in the population?
I thought you studied neuroscience or something-- never had a statistics or research analysis class?


MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: davester
Date: July 30, 2012 09:18PM
popcorn smiley



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Black
Date: July 30, 2012 09:32PM
Quote
davester
popcorn smiley

Slow down you're gonna choke...


MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 30, 2012 09:43PM
Chakravartin cited Quackwatch above. I think the head of it, Stephen Barrett, is as quacky as the quacks.

[www.quackpotwatch.org]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 30, 2012 09:44PM
Quote
Black
What percentage of acupuncture recipients get hepatitis?

About 1.7% in this example.
[ukpmc.ac.uk]

What percentage is acceptable?
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 30, 2012 09:48PM
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
Black
What percentage of acupuncture recipients get hepatitis?

About 1.7% in this example.
[ukpmc.ac.uk]

What percentage is acceptable?

Oh for pete's sake that is 5 cases from one practitioner. Millions of people get acupuncture every day, around the world. It is safe and effective.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 30, 2012 09:51PM
Quote
Dennis S
Chakravartin cited Quackwatch above. I think the head of it, Stephen Barrett, is as quacky as the quacks.

[www.quackpotwatch.org]

The sole purpose of the activities of Barrett & Baratz are to discredit and cause damage and harm to health care practitioners, businesses that make alternative health therapies or products available, and advocates of non-allopathic therapies and health freedom."

Sounds good to me!

But then again, I'm a regular Guardian reader.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: July 30, 2012 09:52PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Chakravartin
Quote
Black
What percentage of acupuncture recipients get hepatitis?

About 1.7% in this example.
[ukpmc.ac.uk]

What percentage is acceptable?

Oh for pete's sake that is 5 cases from one practitioner. Millions of people get acupuncture every day, around the world. It is safe and effective.

[www.boston.com]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 30, 2012 10:08PM
[blogs.wsj.com]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: July 30, 2012 10:19PM
popcorn smiley drinking smiley



[www.flickr.com] [picasaweb.google.com]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Black
Date: July 30, 2012 10:40PM
www.kansas.com


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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Black
Date: July 30, 2012 10:41PM
blogs.nationalenquirer.com


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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Black
Date: July 30, 2012 10:43PM
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2012 10:44PM by Black.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 30, 2012 10:55PM
[www.youtube.com]


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 30, 2012 10:59PM
So, where do y'all get your orange hair dye, Walmart ?




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Black
Date: July 30, 2012 11:10PM
[www.youtube.com]


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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: July 31, 2012 01:36AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
kj
"But there's really no compelling reason to discuss any of that or wonder if he got good care."

I don't think that's a road anyone will truly go down. .

I completely disagree.

Remember the Columbine killers? The nature of the psychiatric care they received was very important when all the facts came in. (which was years after the event)
And particularly if James Holmes tries an insanity plea, it's going to be all about the psychiatric care (assuming there was any.) He's now claiming to have amnesia about the entire event, so I think you can expect a defense related to his mental state.
Also, this doctor bills herself as a specialist and researcher in assessing threats posed by patients diagnosed with schizophrenia or other personality disorders.
The state of his mental health is going to factor in, and the role this doctor played is obviously part of that.

Have a great day!

Sorry, I actually thought you were talking about really understanding what happened, not what lawyers are going to say. All kinds of silly things come up in court proceedings. kj.
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Re: side issue: acupuncture
Posted by: A-Polly
Date: July 31, 2012 09:29AM
Just one small anecdote to add to the acupuncture tangent: my neighbor has a cat who suffered an injury which caused her to lose use of a leg. Both her regular vet and doctors at the university vet school recommended amputation because of what they diagnosed as untreatable nerve damage. However, one person (I'm not sure if it was a resident at the vet school or a student) suggested that she try veterinary acupuncture. My neighbor was skeptical, but decided to go for it just in case, since amputation was still an option if the alternative treatment didn't make a difference.

That was nearly 10 years ago, and the cat still runs, jumps, and trots on 4 functioning legs, with no hint of past trauma. Again, just an anecdote, but I found it interesting. Can a cat benefit from the placebo effect? dunno smileypopcorn smiley
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Re: side issue: acupuncture
Posted by: davester
Date: July 31, 2012 10:07AM
Quote
A-Polly
That was nearly 10 years ago, and the cat still runs, jumps, and trots on 4 functioning legs, with no hint of past trauma. Again, just an anecdote, but I found it interesting. Can a cat benefit from the placebo effect? dunno smileypopcorn smiley

Correlation is not causation. There's no way to tell whether it was the acupuncture caused this or whether the cat would have regained function anyway. Many quack alternative medicines rely on stories like this. They don't tell you the stories where it didn't work.



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 31, 2012 10:18AM
Acupuncture is now widely employed on animals. It does beg the question as to a placebo affect. If an old stiff cat who can't get around very welll becomes vastly more mobile after treatment, did the cat just imagine the acupuncture worked?


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: side issue: acupuncture
Posted by: A-Polly
Date: July 31, 2012 10:26AM
Quote
davester
Correlation is not causation.
Agreed. Just an anecdote, as I said; interesting to me because I have seen this cat nearly every day, both before and after her injury.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 31, 2012 10:37AM
Quote

If an old stiff cat who can't get around very welll becomes vastly more mobile after treatment, did the cat just imagine the acupuncture worked?

Perhaps Kitty is vastly more mobile in order to avoid humans inserting needles into Kitty.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 31, 2012 11:10AM
Quote
kj
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
kj
"But there's really no compelling reason to discuss any of that or wonder if he got good care."

I don't think that's a road anyone will truly go down. .

I completely disagree.

Remember the Columbine killers? The nature of the psychiatric care they received was very important when all the facts came in. (which was years after the event)
And particularly if James Holmes tries an insanity plea, it's going to be all about the psychiatric care (assuming there was any.) He's now claiming to have amnesia about the entire event, so I think you can expect a defense related to his mental state.
Also, this doctor bills herself as a specialist and researcher in assessing threats posed by patients diagnosed with schizophrenia or other personality disorders.
The state of his mental health is going to factor in, and the role this doctor played is obviously part of that.

Have a great day!

Sorry, I actually thought you were talking about really understanding what happened, not what lawyers are going to say. All kinds of silly things come up in court proceedings. kj.

As you'll recall the Columbine killers were never in court, they killed themselves.
The importance of the quality of their mental health care was a big concern to the parents of the kids they killed, to law enforcement and to the community as a whole. Yes there is an interest in "really understanding what happened."
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: July 31, 2012 12:56PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
kj
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
kj
"But there's really no compelling reason to discuss any of that or wonder if he got good care."

I don't think that's a road anyone will truly go down. .

I completely disagree.

Remember the Columbine killers? The nature of the psychiatric care they received was very important when all the facts came in. (which was years after the event)
And particularly if James Holmes tries an insanity plea, it's going to be all about the psychiatric care (assuming there was any.) He's now claiming to have amnesia about the entire event, so I think you can expect a defense related to his mental state.
Also, this doctor bills herself as a specialist and researcher in assessing threats posed by patients diagnosed with schizophrenia or other personality disorders.
The state of his mental health is going to factor in, and the role this doctor played is obviously part of that.

Have a great day!

Sorry, I actually thought you were talking about really understanding what happened, not what lawyers are going to say. All kinds of silly things come up in court proceedings. kj.

As you'll recall the Columbine killers were never in court, they killed themselves.
The importance of the quality of their mental health care was a big concern to the parents of the kids they killed, to law enforcement and to the community as a whole. Yes there is an interest in "really understanding what happened."

You were talking about how it will "play out" in court, which has nothing to do with quality of mental health. Do you think in its current state mental health care practitioners have the technology to truly assess people such as Holme's? In other words, do you think there is any way they could have known what they were dealing with? I don't think so. If not, do you see any way they can treat him in an appropriate manner; not actually knowing what his true condition is? Hypothetically, if they had known exactly what he was capable of, what types of treatment can you imagine would be appropriate? I would argue, based on even the most hopeful of studies and research, that there is no such thing as good enough quality mental health care. I don't think the state of the science is comparable to a band-aid (at least with a band-aid you know exactly what it does, and it is always effective if used properly). So in a field where outcomes are so poor, can you expect practitioners to provide effective care for someone like Holmes? Absolutely not. They do what they can, and hope...so should we sue them when it doesn't work? Perhaps we should require them to more accurately represent their capabilities, but I don't think it helps anyone to have unreasonable expectations. kj.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 31, 2012 01:18PM
Quote
kj

You were talking about how it will "play out" in court, which has nothing to do with quality of mental health. Do you think in its current state mental health care practitioners have the technology to truly assess people such as Holme's? In other words, do you think there is any way they could have known what they were dealing with? I don't think so. If not, do you see any way they can treat him in an appropriate manner; not actually knowing what his true condition is? Hypothetically, if they had known exactly what he was capable of, what types of treatment can you imagine would be appropriate? I would argue, based on even the most hopeful of studies and research, that there is no such thing as good enough quality mental health care. I don't think the state of the science is comparable to a band-aid (at least with a band-aid you know exactly what it does, and it is always effective if used properly). So in a field where outcomes are so poor, can you expect practitioners to provide effective care for someone like Holmes? Absolutely not. They do what they can, and hope...so should we sue them when it doesn't work? Perhaps we should require them to more accurately represent their capabilities, but I don't think it helps anyone to have unreasonable expectations. kj.


Nothing about this is an indictment of the entire mental health profession. I don't know why there is so much fear of simply asking the questions. Is it just too horrible to contemplate?
Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems. No of course it's not possible to know who is about to "snap." But he did in fact seek out psychiatric care ahead of his killing rampage, so the nature of that should be of interest, don't you think?
In any event, I do think it will be helpful for people in the mental health community to understand what took place with James Holmes and this psychiatrist. Was he on meds? Which ones? What did he say during any treatment? If he was discussing violent plans, were they taken seriously? Was any recommendation made for hospitalization? Was the notebook he allegedly mailed to her the first indication of violent plans, or did he mention it earlier? Psychiatrists do have the right to go to police when they hear of plans for future crimes.
These are all unanswered questions. I make no assumptions, I'm asking questions. The same ones that will be asked in the months ahead regarding this particular case.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 31, 2012 01:18PM
Quote
August West
Quote

If an old stiff cat who can't get around very welll becomes vastly more mobile after treatment, did the cat just imagine the acupuncture worked?

Perhaps Kitty is vastly more mobile in order to avoid humans inserting needles into Kitty.

Why do people look for more complicated answers when they don't want to believe something? So you think it is more likely that a cat will fake a recovery to avoid acupuncture?


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 31, 2012 02:09PM
Quote

Why do people look for more complicated answers when they don't want to believe something? So you think it is more likely that a cat will fake a recovery to avoid acupuncture?

No, I joke about cats. It's an interesting phenomena that has spread to the internets like wildfire. Makes a person smile, ok?
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 31, 2012 02:12PM



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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: July 31, 2012 02:40PM
>>Nothing about this is an indictment of the entire mental health profession.

Of course not, but it has ramifications for the entire profession.

>>I don't know why there is so much fear of simply asking the questions. Is it just too horrible to contemplate?

No fear here. And I asked questions too. But I find some of your assumptions really troubling, such as:

>>Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems.

This sounds a bit like something we're just supposed to accept without question, and it's not at all. What does that statement mean, and is it really the case? Taken literally, it is absolutely false. No, care is not effective for all people with serious mental health problems. It's just as clear that sometimes mental health care does harm. Yet, many seem to talk as though the above is true without question. It's all very troubling to me because it's all going in the wrong direction. kj.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 31, 2012 02:48PM
kj, you misquoted me then proceeded to argue with the misquote.

Quote
You
No, care is not effective for all people with serious mental health problems.

Quote
Me
Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems.

See the difference? I didn't say "all people," you added that. Also I said "possible," not "always possible."

I stand by my statement, it's true.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: davester
Date: July 31, 2012 03:07PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
kj, you misquoted me then proceeded to argue with the misquote.

Quote
You
No, care is not effective for all people with serious mental health problems.

Quote
Me
Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems.

See the difference? I didn't say "all people," you added that. Also I said "possible," not "always possible."

I stand by my statement, it's true.

kj, This kind of stuff just makes you look bad and it has become your M.O. I called you out for misrepresenting what I said and then arguing with the misrepresentation just a couple of days ago on the thread about guns. I've also called you out on previous occasions for doing the exact same thing. Please stick to direct quotes if you want to debate someone. You've got to be crazy if you think people are going to overlook such manipulations.



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 03:08PM by davester.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 31, 2012 03:08PM
Quote
August West
No, I joke about cats. It's an interesting phenomena that has spread to the internets like wildfire. Makes a person smile, ok?

wall smiley
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 31, 2012 03:12PM
Why are cat pics so great? They just are.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 31, 2012 04:34PM
puppies trump cats
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Kiva
Date: July 31, 2012 04:48PM
I believe, legally, it will come down to whether or not certain legal standards are met. Did she have reason to believe he was a harm to himself or others? If so, she should have committed him or contact law enforcement. The standard the practitioner is going to likely be held to is (1) what would her average peer have done in the same situation and (2) did she contact any colleagues for a consult. There may be more, but those are the ones I remember.

Then we'll be getting into Tarasoff . Did she know he was homicidal? Did he identify a potential victim?

Should be very interesting...

Also, I would love to hear her working diagnosis..


----------------------
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 31, 2012 05:44PM
Quote
Kiva
I believe, legally, it will come down to whether or not certain legal standards are met. Did she have reason to believe he was a harm to himself or others? If so, she should have committed him or contact law enforcement. The standard the practitioner is going to likely be held to is (1) what would her average peer have done in the same situation and (2) did she contact any colleagues for a consult. There may be more, but those are the ones I remember.

Then we'll be getting into Tarasoff . Did she know he was homicidal? Did he identify a potential victim?

Should be very interesting...

Also, I would love to hear her working diagnosis..

Thanks kiva - I could have used your voice a lot earlier in this thread.

Yes, it will be interesting. And the full story will come out long after this story is out of the headlines and the country has moved on to the latest mass killer.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Kiva
Date: July 31, 2012 05:49PM
I'm soloing taking care of my 11 month old twins...internet time is greatly diminished smiling smiley

I know the laws vary a bit state to state, but I'm reciting what I would be held accountable to. The big one, as I was told, is did the person seek assistance / consult, or did he/she make the decision alone, in a vacuum.

I was advised that, in any sketchy situation, always seek peer consult. If it goes sideways, it really helps to show you did what would be standard.

The Tarasoff laws are pretty firm. Here's the crazy thing; I could have a client that is telling me he/she feels like killing people and I *may* not be able to break confidentiality, as there is no identifiable victim. Personally, if I had a client that I felt was a potential homicidal case, I would do it ethically and face the consequences if the client or family went after me for confidentiality breach...of course, after getting consult.

My licensing group has lawyers on staff that we can call to get advisement. I use them from time to time and it really is a nice thing to put in the notes smiling smiley

I hope her liability insurance included a crap load of coverage for legal fees. She's going to need it.


----------------------



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 05:50PM by Kiva.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 31, 2012 07:20PM
Quote
Kiva


I hope her liability insurance included a crap load of coverage for legal fees. She's going to need it.

interesting stuff

Since she's on the staff of a major university, I'd guess there is some umbrella liability coverage for her but the school could be wide open to civil suits.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Kiva
Date: July 31, 2012 07:50PM
I carry personal liability insurance even though my employer would cover, most likely. I've heard stories of employers saying, "sorry, you're on your own" when the employee is named, specifically, in the suit vs. the university.

In this case, the university is the deep pockets...


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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 31, 2012 07:51PM
The idea that someone other than the crazy person might be responsible for that crazy persons actions is nothing more than a tort lawyers wet dream. Perhaps we could delve into his past and decide what made him crazy, then we might have others to hold accountable. If they have deep pockets, why not?
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Kiva
Date: July 31, 2012 08:07PM
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RgrF
The idea that someone other than the crazy person might be responsible for that crazy persons actions is nothing more than a tort lawyers wet dream. Perhaps we could delve into his past and decide what made him crazy, then we might have others to hold accountable. If they have deep pockets, why not?

though I agree with the sentiment, the psychiatrist is specifically trained to be on the lookout for homicidal behavior and has legal requirements to report it, etc. If his parents messed him up, they just are crappy parents. Nothing illegal about that (unless you beat the crap out of your kid, etc.). Interesting slippery slope, though.

The university is responsible for the competence of their employees. And so it goes..


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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 31, 2012 09:38PM
He was a neuroscience student. It looks to me like he went off the deep end in a hurry. I wonder if he was experimenting with drugs.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Kiva
Date: July 31, 2012 09:42PM
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Dennis S
He was a neuroscience student. It looks to me like he went off the deep end in a hurry. I wonder if he was experimenting with drugs.

that would be interesting. We had a teen that did that recently: drug-induced psychosis. When he was psychotic, he was capable of anything...

Total guess: budding paranoid schizophrenic. Or, some sort of thought disorder with some paranoia. He's the right age for that. could also have been a manic episode w/ psychosis.

I'll be paying attention to the psych part of this...


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 09:42PM by Kiva.
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