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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 31, 2012 10:14PM
Rather than common street drugs (which is very possible), I was thinking about designer drugs and the kind of stuff found here:

[www.erowid.org]

Also, there is the possibility we went into neuroscience to find a "cure" for himself. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Kiva
Date: August 01, 2012 12:15AM
Found a really good Newsweek article that explains the research on the different types of mass murders. definitely worth a read:

[www.thedailybeast.com]


----------------------
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: August 01, 2012 12:55AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
kj, you misquoted me then proceeded to argue with the misquote.

Quote
You
No, care is not effective for all people with serious mental health problems.

Quote
Me
Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems.

See the difference? I didn't say "all people," you added that. Also I said "possible," not "always possible."

I stand by my statement, it's true.

I disagree. First, I quoted you verbatim. Second, you said it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems. You said "people with serious mental health problems". You didn't say "some". You didn't say "many". What you said means ALL. Sorry, but it is a fact. If you meant something different fine, but don't tell me I misquoted you. At any rate, I think the litigious nature of this society is a fatal sickness. It truly disgusts me. And to participate in that type of thinking outside of the practice of law is just as bad. Have a good day! kj.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: August 01, 2012 01:14AM
Quote
davester
Quote
Lemon Drop
kj, you misquoted me then proceeded to argue with the misquote.

Quote
You
No, care is not effective for all people with serious mental health problems.

Quote
Me
Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems.

See the difference? I didn't say "all people," you added that. Also I said "possible," not "always possible."

I stand by my statement, it's true.

kj, This kind of stuff just makes you look bad and it has become your M.O. I called you out for misrepresenting what I said and then arguing with the misrepresentation just a couple of days ago on the thread about guns. I've also called you out on previous occasions for doing the exact same thing. Please stick to direct quotes if you want to debate someone. You've got to be crazy if you think people are going to overlook such manipulations.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about. Where did you call me out? At any rate, I've called you out on several occasions too, so big whoop. And I did not misquote "Lemon Drop". I quoted her verbatim. I would kind of like to know why she was telling me effective care can sometimes be provided to people with problems, when I would never, and have never, argued any differently. I'm done with this discussion. I find all the legal/liability B.S. disgusting. No good will ever come of it. kj.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: August West
Date: August 01, 2012 07:05AM
Quote
kj
What you said means ALL. Sorry, but it is a fact.

I'm amazed that the world at large fails to recognize your infallible logic. Clearly, they, and by they I mean ALL the logical, rational, communicative beings out there, will some day realize that what they write, and by write I mean ALL the words they put to the page, are incomplete and only become complete after you tell them which of the words that they did not write are actually the words they should have written. It is a FACT!!!
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 01, 2012 10:02AM
When the discussion is reduced to Who Struck John than the thread is officially dead.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 01, 2012 12:30PM
Quote
Kiva


I'll be paying attention to the psych part of this...

Me too. Thanks for the good insight!
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: August 01, 2012 02:29PM
Quote
August West
Quote
kj
What you said means ALL. Sorry, but it is a fact.

I'm amazed that the world at large fails to recognize your infallible logic. Clearly, they, and by they I mean ALL the logical, rational, communicative beings out there, will some day realize that what they write, and by write I mean ALL the words they put to the page, are incomplete and only become complete after you tell them which of the words that they did not write are actually the words they should have written. It is a FACT!!!

Well, it's a fact in my opinion!


I don't always agree with you Stevie, but I do on this one. kj.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 01, 2012 10:20PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Kiva


I'll be paying attention to the psych part of this...

Me too. Thanks for the good insight!

And here we go.

"DENVER -- The psychiatrist treating accused Aurora theater gunman James Holmes was so concerned about his behavior that she notified other members of the University of Colorado Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment, or BETA, team that he could potentially be a danger to others, sources with knowledge of the investigation told CALL7 Investigators.

Those concerns surfaced in early June -- almost six weeks before the shooting, sources told CALL7 Investigator John Ferrugia."

[www.thedenverchannel.com]
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Kiva
Date: August 01, 2012 10:34PM
she's, likely, off the hook. University is hosed.


----------------------



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 10:35PM by Kiva.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 01, 2012 11:26PM
Quote
Kiva
she's, likely, off the hook. University is hosed.

Would she have any responsibility for tracking him if he just never came to see her after she established this?

"And, sources say, officials at the University of Colorado never contacted Aurora police with Fenton’s concerns before the July 20 killings."

Think they might have Penn State's attorneys on speed dial yet?

Also, who most likely would be on the threat assessment team? (what departments, for example) I assume university security is one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 11:27PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 01, 2012 11:44PM
She must have reported to someone. If she did or did not the search for a scapegoat won't end until someone or other hangs.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: davester
Date: August 01, 2012 11:47PM
Quote
kj
Quote
Lemon Drop
kj, you misquoted me then proceeded to argue with the misquote.

Quote
You
No, care is not effective for all people with serious mental health problems.

Quote
Me
Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems.

See the difference? I didn't say "all people," you added that. Also I said "possible," not "always possible."

I stand by my statement, it's true.

I disagree. First, I quoted you verbatim. Second, you said it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems. You said "people with serious mental health problems". You didn't say "some". You didn't say "many". What you said means ALL. Sorry, but it is a fact.

Perhaps if english is your second language you could be excused for thinking this. However, your "fact" is a falsehood. It is completely clear that Lemon Drop's statement did not imply "all".



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 11:48PM by davester.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: August 02, 2012 03:19AM
Quote
davester
Quote
kj
Quote
Lemon Drop
kj, you misquoted me then proceeded to argue with the misquote.

Quote
You
No, care is not effective for all people with serious mental health problems.

Quote
Me
Yes it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems.

See the difference? I didn't say "all people," you added that. Also I said "possible," not "always possible."

I stand by my statement, it's true.

I disagree. First, I quoted you verbatim. Second, you said it is possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems. You said "people with serious mental health problems". You didn't say "some". You didn't say "many". What you said means ALL. Sorry, but it is a fact.

Perhaps if english is your second language you could be excused for thinking this. However, your "fact" is a falsehood. It is completely clear that Lemon Drop's statement did not imply "all".

Sorry davester, but I disagree. What if she had said the opposite, "It is [im]possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems." Would that have meant to some people? No, you'd be itching to put "some" or "many" in there. Have a good one. kj.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: davester
Date: August 02, 2012 10:48AM
Quote
kj
What if she had said the opposite, "It is [im]possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems." Would that have meant to some people? No, you'd be itching to put "some" or "many" in there. Have a good one. kj.

The difference is that "impossible" is an absolute, and "possible" is not. Those are the words that define the meaning of the two sentences. Your statement that lack of a modifier defaults to "all" has no basis in reality. Lemon Drop knew what she said, and it was clear to others what she said. It is only you who insists on a meaning that is counter to what was actually said. Back to english grammar class with you!



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2012 10:50AM by davester.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 02, 2012 11:01AM
It is possible to teach chimpanzees to recognize their own name in writing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2012 11:02AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: August West
Date: August 02, 2012 11:29AM
Quote

Sorry davester, but I disagree. What if she had said the opposite, "It is [im]possible to provide effective care to people with serious mental health problems." Would that have meant to some people? No, you'd be itching to put "some" or "many" in there. Have a good one. kj.

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Re: Did James Holmes have an competent psychiatrist ?
Posted by: kj
Date: August 09, 2012 04:41PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
It is possible to teach chimpanzees to recognize their own name in writing.

All chimpanzees, or just some of them? I think this means ALL chimpanzees CAN be taught to recognize their own name. It obviously does not mean that all chimpanzees ARE taught to recognize their name, but I never said you were saying all mentally ill people ARE helped, only that ALL mentally ill CAN be helped (they can't). kj.
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