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You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: decay
Date: August 03, 2012 09:41AM


any reasoned thoughts?
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 03, 2012 09:45AM
It's not a reasoned thought, but I must say that this fellow is one crude hillbilly. PRESIDENT Obama is the PRESIDENT, buddy, nice slogan you've got there.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2012 09:46AM by $tevie.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 03, 2012 10:05AM
Yes, tacky sign. Not sure his grammar teachers would want the association, although I'm sure they tried.
I like the illustrations though.

Speaking of KMA, that Romney campaign guy was fired.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: john dough
Date: August 03, 2012 10:10AM
Yet another person that does not know what they are talking about.


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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: billb
Date: August 03, 2012 10:23AM





Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 03, 2012 10:40AM
Dang, Romney's got Georgia wrapped up for sure now.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 03, 2012 10:57AM
Assuming he's cutting wood on the premises OSHA keeps his employees from losing fingers in saws or going deaf from noise.

The government also prints and backs the money he receives in payment. Otherwise people would be bartering with chickens or gold doubloons.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 03, 2012 11:20AM
Quote
p8712
Assuming he's cutting wood on the premises OSHA keeps his employees from losing fingers in saws or going deaf from noise.

I bet he wouldn't give a tiny rat's arse if they did.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: decay
Date: August 03, 2012 11:23AM
Quote
p8712
Assuming he's cutting wood on the premises OSHA keeps his employees from losing fingers in saws or going deaf from noise.

The government also prints and backs the money he receives in payment. Otherwise people would be bartering with chickens or gold doubloons.

well, they print it, anyway... not sure how our funny money is "backed" since it's been off the gold standard.

if there was a run on banks for money, there would not be enough there.




[www.giyf.com]
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: billb
Date: August 03, 2012 11:30AM
Quote
p8712
Assuming he's cutting wood on the premises OSHA keeps his employees from losing fingers in saws or going deaf from noise.

The government also prints and backs the money he receives in payment. Otherwise people would be bartering with chickens or gold doubloons.
He'd likely be more than happy to have his accountant show you the taxes he paid doing business to employ those OSHA employees and help you qualify for your government assisted mortgage.




Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 03, 2012 01:25PM
Quote
decay
Quote
p8712
Assuming he's cutting wood on the premises OSHA keeps his employees from losing fingers in saws or going deaf from noise.

The government also prints and backs the money he receives in payment. Otherwise people would be bartering with chickens or gold doubloons.

well, they print it, anyway... not sure how our funny money is "backed" since it's been off the gold standard.

if there was a run on banks for money, there would not be enough there.

Yeah, I should have said something like 'legal tender'. Still, even fiat money is the basis of his livelihood. They government also regulates banks and the financial industry (well, in theory), and gives him a legal system to deal with store theft, bad creditors, insurance, etc.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 03, 2012 01:40PM
Still waiting to read the presentation that argues that the small business owner sat back and did nothing while the government (or government entity) "built that" and made the small business a success.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 03, 2012 01:44PM
Funny thing about the photo is that all of those items listed were paid for by the people for the benefit of the general public.

Perhaps if these items were provided to the business for free and without taxation to pay for them, then the government might be able to say they were some sort of investor in the business that helped the business succeed (through in-kind donation of services).

Otherwise, the government has it's hand out waiting for payment.

Of course, if you happen to run a big corporation then there are bailouts to enjoy.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 03, 2012 01:51PM
Fine. Go open your lumber store in Somalia and see how well you do on your own.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 03, 2012 01:52PM
Quote
Mac-A-Matic
Still waiting to read the presentation that argues that the small business owner sat back and did nothing while the government (or government entity) "built that" and made the small business a success.

You're going to be waiting a very long time because nobody is making that claim.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 03, 2012 01:59PM
I still fail to understand why pointing out that we are all in this together in our United States of America makes some people so uncomfortable. It's like they can't acknowledge that they don't live in a bubble of their own devise.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 03, 2012 02:04PM
Quote
Acer
Fine. Go open your lumber store in Somalia and see how well you do on your own.

They could use hardware/lumber stores in Somalia. Aren't we all supposed to move to where the jobs are? People sitting around complaining about taxes and the governments could be busy making millions running Somali Home Depot.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: billb
Date: August 03, 2012 02:13PM
When you are framing that argument with small business owners getting rich on the backs of previous taxpayers giving absolutely NO CREDIT for the burdensome taxes and fees the current small business owners suffer someone will point out the BS. For what it is . BS . Usually loudly.




Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 03, 2012 02:14PM
Nobody is saying small businessmen don't work. Nobody is saying small businessmen got rich off the backs of taxpayers.

What is being said is that nobody builds a business in a vacuum. Trying to twist it into something else is a crock. If you have to make stuff up to argue about this, maybe it's because you know it's true and lies are all you've got.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2012 02:16PM by $tevie.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 03, 2012 02:16PM
Quote
billb
When you are framing that argument with small business owners getting rich on the backs of previous taxpayers giving absolutely NO CREDIT for the burdensome taxes and fees the current small business owners suffer someone will point out the BS. For what it is . BS . Usually loudly.

Yeah the problem bill is that nobody is saying what you just said, except Republicans trying to reframe the discussion into something that was NEVER said or implied.
It's getting really tiresome.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 03, 2012 02:17PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
It's getting really tiresome.

No kidding. It's like having Rush Limbaugh bloviating on the topic.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: BCam
Date: August 03, 2012 02:28PM
Isn't this whole "built that" thing really about having a level playing field for the Small Business to succeed? No one is denying that Ray took the chance to plunge into the lumber & hardware business, however, the success of his effort is based upon there being rules, and yes, regulations in place that assured him of an equal opportunity to make a go of it.

An example would be a football game. There are set rules and regulations in place that govern HOW the game is played. They apply to all teams - from Ray's SEC favorite to little Slippery Rock University. Success is determined by playing within the rules and regulations. Better coach? Better players? Better training facilities? Yup, they all lead to potentially MORE success. But those "betters" are not required to play the game.

Ray, when you buy 40 acres of woodlands, cut a road into it, build your store on the land with your own hands (probably ignoring local building codes) using your own hand-made tools and figure out how to get materials to sell without using public roads or US currency, then you can drop your pants and show the President your Georgia Red Eye, and wait for that kiss.

Ray - here is the the beginning of the Rules:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2012 02:33PM by BCam.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: billb
Date: August 03, 2012 02:29PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
billb
When you are framing that argument with small business owners getting rich on the backs of previous taxpayers giving absolutely NO CREDIT for the burdensome taxes and fees the current small business owners suffer someone will point out the BS. For what it is . BS . Usually loudly.

Yeah the problem bill is that nobody is saying what you just said, except Republicans trying to reframe the discussion into something that was NEVER said or implied.
It's getting really tiresome.
But that's exactly what the wingnuts Warren and Lakoff intend.
Counter conservative's "self-made man" with "taxes made this country great", not people or wealth.
It's a progressive concept that might be given a place on the shelf in Massachusetts and California but it just isn't going to fly in the rest of the country.

Dig a hole down the center of that sand box.
But you don't have a right to complain when there isn't enough sand left in the middle for compromise.
Especially when both sides are digging with wild abandon.
.




Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 03, 2012 02:33PM
Well, regardless of anything, "You didn't build that" is going to end up falling behind "Release your tax returns" as far as voter attention is concerned. It's a dying meme.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: August 03, 2012 06:26PM
There are a couple of things called public safety and infrastructure. I think that this is what Obama meant when he referred to a transportation system and said "You didn't build that." Of course the right wing noise machine figured that they could misquote the remark out of context, and they did. Their problem is that Obama is not Kerry, and the internet makes this kind of half-lie a little less strong. Still, the picture shows a good example of a real-life troll.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 03, 2012 06:35PM
And speaking of Kerry, I'm very excited that the Democrats have decided to kick some butt instead of being polite about being misquoted and slandered. I'm sorry the Presidential election process has come to this but since it has, they need to go for the jugular -- which they seem to have finally figured out.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 03, 2012 09:04PM
Quote
$tevie
And speaking of Kerry, I'm very excited that the Democrats have decided to kick some butt instead of being polite about being misquoted and slandered. I'm sorry the Presidential election process has come to this but since it has, they need to go for the jugular -- which they seem to have finally figured out.

Someone's clearly been tracking $tevies "Election Tactics 101" here at MS, something available to forum members at no charge. The guy that pitched this to the Obama campaign not only failed to credit $ but probably also charged the campaign a boatload for the purloined ideas.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Avenger
Date: August 03, 2012 09:37PM
Quote
Acer
Fine. Go open your lumber store in Somalia and see how well you do on your own.

If Somalia was as rich as the US the lumber yard would do just fine. If the government here is capable to do big things it is because there are people around to pay for them. Once again, the libs think the government came first, then people were born. You Didn't Build ThatTM sounds worse when you quote in context. Then you know how awful it sounds all around.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 04, 2012 02:13AM
Interesting that in some threads the Obama apologists make an argument over grammar when it suits them. Yet when the president himself makes poor use of grammar the same people act as though the intent is clear. The president said " Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that."

Which goes back to the poor use of "that" instead of "those" and the resultant furor generated by the presidents words.

I also like how some of you want to spin this as a "dying meme".

[online.wsj.com]

[www.boston.com]

I seriously doubt the president would still be making commercials and trying to explain his meaning if it were dying. Had he actually taken the time to consider his words and change them prior to that speech, he would have avoided all of this completely.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Black
Date: August 04, 2012 08:46AM
Quote
Mac-A-Matic
Interesting that in some threads the Obama apologists make an argument over grammar when it suits them. Yet when the president himself makes poor use of grammar the same people act as though the intent is clear. The president said " Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that."

Which goes back to the poor use of "that" instead of "those" and the resultant furor generated by the presidents words.

I also like how some of you want to spin this as a "dying meme".

[online.wsj.com]

[www.boston.com]

I seriously doubt the president would still be making commercials and trying to explain his meaning if it were dying. Had he actually taken the time to consider his words and change them prior to that speech, he would have avoided all of this completely.

That's all you got?


MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 04, 2012 09:31AM
Quote
Black
That's all you got?

Several weeks later and the president is still trying to "explain his intent" to the media and do damage control.

That says it all.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: August 04, 2012 10:28AM
That's not much. And the President is no longer trying to do damage control because for reasonable people it's unnecessary and for the wingnut population it's not worth it.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 04, 2012 10:39AM
Your links are to examples of Republicans trying to keep the interest alive.

The thing hasn't captured the imagination of anyone who did not already disagree with Obama. It is petering out. It will be dead by the fall. It's got no legs outside of the right.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Black
Date: August 04, 2012 12:41PM
Quote
$tevie
Your links are to examples of Republicans trying to keep the interest alive.

The thing hasn't captured the imagination of anyone who did not already disagree with Obama. It is petering out. It will be dead by the fall. It's got no legs outside of the right.
Strategically, it's better to let the righties think it does have legs and let them waste more advertising money beating the carcass.


MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2012 12:41PM by Black.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Manlove
Date: August 04, 2012 12:42PM
Deep in your heart or mind (wherever it is you think you do your thinking) do you really think the Pres. meant what you and yours are trying to assert he meant? Really? Do you know how mind-numbingly stupid this makes you sound?
I guess it's true that being A Repug is tantamount to admitting that you are of below average intelligence.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 04, 2012 01:19PM
Quote
Black
Quote
$tevie
Your links are to examples of Republicans trying to keep the interest alive.

The thing hasn't captured the imagination of anyone who did not already disagree with Obama. It is petering out. It will be dead by the fall. It's got no legs outside of the right.
Strategically, it's better to let the righties think it does have legs and let them waste more advertising money beating the carcass.

Good point!


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 04, 2012 01:21PM
Quote
Manlove
Deep in your heart or mind (wherever it is you think you do your thinking) do you really think the Pres. meant what you and yours are trying to assert he meant?

Once you've accepted that he's a Kenyan/socialist/communist/fascist/time traveler who placed ads announcing his own birth, the rest comes pretty easy.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Manlove
Date: August 04, 2012 01:26PM
smile smiley
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: decay
Date: August 04, 2012 02:10PM
WE THE PEOPLE?

OMG - SOCIALISTS!
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 04, 2012 02:43PM
I can't figure out if the right believes the nonsense they do because they can't understand logic and reason or if they really do and actively refute it because it goes against their cherished core beliefs.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Avenger
Date: August 04, 2012 03:30PM
You bet it has legs. This is not the first time he is saying it. His entire political life is built on the collective hence community activism etc. etc. He looked so comfortable delivering those words that only a hack would deny he meant it. He was on a roll, crowds were cheering him on and that was when the snark came out. "Let me tell you somethin', there are lot of hard working people out there". Now that he is exposed he is too chicken to admit to what he said and starts cutting commercials.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 04, 2012 03:38PM
Meanwhile since Romney rolled out "You Didn't Build That" he has fallen further behind in the polls.
So by all means keep it up! It's working great.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Avenger
Date: August 04, 2012 03:43PM
Hey, hey, that is You Didn't Build ThatTM
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 04, 2012 03:45PM
Mr. Romney, You Didn't Win That.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: john dough
Date: August 04, 2012 06:25PM
The righties are desperately grasping at straws because they are doing NOTHING to help this country. Obama said nothing what the GOP has claimed yet when shown this, they keep hammering him on what is in reality, a myth that no one else believes.

Disagree? Prove that statement to be incorrect and explain what the GOP is doing to make this country stonger. Whining and attacking is not making this country a better place.

No credit whatsoever for saying a word about Democrats or Obama. Educate us on what the GOP doing, as I see nothing.


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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 04, 2012 11:01PM
Quote
Manlove
Deep in your heart or mind (wherever it is you think you do your thinking) do you really think the Pres. meant what you and yours are trying to assert he meant? Really? Do you know how mind-numbingly stupid this makes you sound?
I guess it's true that being A Repug is tantamount to admitting that you are of below average intelligence.

I have simply presented verbatim what the president said. Using "that" when "those" would have alleviated any doubt or question regarding his intent.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Manlove
Date: August 05, 2012 12:48AM
If you have never once in your life misspoken and then had to explain what you meant to a listener who wasn't entirely certain what you meant, then bully for you. But I doubt that's the case.
Now imagine that someone listening to you intentionally misinterpreted what you said for their own (in this case, political) gain. What would you think of that person? Well, that's how I feel about the Romnoids that are trying to portray the Pres. as saying and meaning something other than what he said and meant.
You portrayed yourself as a man of god elsewhere on the forum- didn't he say something about first casting stones at greenhouses?devil smileyangel smiley

If you really want to "go there" with presidential gaffes, Obama is hardly the place to start...know what I mean?
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 05, 2012 01:24AM
To paraphrase "There are none so dumb* as those who will not hear"

* I know, I know. It's an outdated label but just too delicious to not use in this context.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2012 01:27AM by RgrF.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: john dough
Date: August 05, 2012 10:00AM
Quote
Mac-A-Matic
Quote
Manlove
Deep in your heart or mind (wherever it is you think you do your thinking) do you really think the Pres. meant what you and yours are trying to assert he meant? Really? Do you know how mind-numbingly stupid this makes you sound?
I guess it's true that being A Repug is tantamount to admitting that you are of below average intelligence.

I have simply presented verbatim what the president said. Using "that" when "those" would have alleviated any doubt or question regarding his intent.

Don't walk this back. The GOP is presenting something he did NOT say as something he did and the righties are lapping up what is basically a lie. If you want to rail at presidential miscues, where was your voice when Bush was doing MUCH worse than this daily??


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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 05, 2012 12:53PM
Interesting NYT article from a Cornell Univ. economist:

[www.nytimes.com]

Quote

THERE may be no topic that more reliably divides liberals and conservatives than the relationship between success and luck. Many conservatives celebrate market success as an almost inevitable consequence of talent and effort. Liberals, by contrast, like to remind us that even talented people who work hard sometimes fall on hard times through no fault of their own.
Enlarge This Image
John Ueland

It’s easy to see why each side is wary of the other’s position. Conservatives, for example, understandably fret that encouraging people to view life as a lottery might encourage them just to sit back and hope for the best. Liberals, for their part, worry that encouraging people to claim an unrealistically large share of the credit for their own success might make them more reluctant to aid the less fortunate.

Both sets of concerns have important implications for public policy, so it would be good to know more about how important luck actually is. Unfortunately, it’s an inherently tough question to answer. But recent experiments suggest that chance events may influence market outcomes far more heavily than previously thought.

The sociologists Duncan J. Watts, Matthew Sagalnik and Peter Dodds carried out some of these experiments, which Mr. Watts described in his superb 2011 book, “Everything Is Obvious* (*Once You Know the Answer).” Their work focuses on online markets, but it has much broader implications. It suggests that although market success does depend on the quality of a product, the link is extremely variable and uncertain. Even the best contestant in a product category may fail, and even the worst one sometimes wins. And for an overwhelming majority of contestants in the intermediate-quality range, they found success to be largely a matter of chance.
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