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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Avenger
Date: August 05, 2012 03:39PM
>>. Liberals, by contrast, like to remind us that even talented people who work hard sometimes fall on hard times through no fault of their own.<<


When people fail "through no fault of their own" it usually means they didn't adapt to changing market conditions. In a way it WAS through a fault of their own. Did Smith-Corona fail because of no fault of its own?
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: August 05, 2012 09:13PM
Smith-Corona is still in business.


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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: decay
Date: August 05, 2012 10:03PM
like when your employer's company is swallowed up by a larger company, that proceeds to lay off half the current staff, but brings in more management with big bonuses?

yeah, that's the worker's fault for not adapting... following the robot rules and doing a good job for his/her boss.

not the management's fault, right?
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 06, 2012 12:53AM
You should be bragging on Smith-Carona, It's one of the companies Bain Capital didn't liquidate. They may have actually saved it.

SC once SCM
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 06, 2012 09:55AM
Quote
john dough
Don't walk this back. The GOP is presenting something he did NOT say as something he did and the righties are lapping up what is basically a lie. If you want to rail at presidential miscues, where was your voice when Bush was doing MUCH worse than this daily??

John-
This is where the Blind Liberalism seems to rear its head.

What I've posted has nothing to do with some GOP presentation - and to state that the quote is something he did not say is an outright lie and fabrication. Simply read the transcript and/or review the video. Those were the words spoken by the president.

And perhaps you've forgotten (because it's more convenient for your argument), but I was critical of the Bush Administration during those years on this forum.

I do remember the Bush years on this forum where the liberal types were all too eager to jump on any presidential miscues. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, we find the liberal types trying to downplay (or in your quote above: cover up) presidential missteps.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: decay
Date: August 06, 2012 02:57PM
Bush and Obama have both spoken major gaffes. This is one of them.
"Mission Accomplished," etc.
"You Didn't Build That"

It might not (or might) be what he meant, but either way, it was poorly spoken and the opposition has every right to jump on it, but to blow it out of proportion is (sadly) the way political campaigns have to be run nowadays, especially Presidential bids.

Obama has to own his mistakes; so does Romney, and so did other Presidents.

It's just a shame what the democratic process has become in our country.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 06, 2012 05:16PM
Quote
Mac-A-Matic
I do remember the Bush years on this forum where the liberal types were all too eager to jump on any presidential miscues. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, we find the liberal types trying to downplay (or in your quote above: cover up) presidential missteps.

Obama said "that" instead of "those." Bush invaded the wrong country.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 06, 2012 05:40PM
I wish people hadn't started saying that Obama meant "those" when he said "that". Even if you read it as "that", it still makes sense as far as what he was trying to say. The problem is when people read two or three sentences and think they've gotten the gist of an entire speech. And THAT is not the President's fault. He can't force everyone to read and to use their sense of reason. Would that he could, but there's too many folks in this country who are proud to be completely stupid.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 06, 2012 05:42PM
Quote
Dennis S

Obama said "that" instead of "those." Bush invaded the wrong country.

What are you talking about? Bush didn't invade the wrong country. He invaded the country he intended to invade: the one who threatened his father's life and took out the leader that tried to kill his father.

To do so, they allowed the paranoia of 9/11 to cloud the judgment of the people and used the threat of WMDs as the basis for this revenge attack

It still doesn't change the error of Obama's grammar - and this from The Great Orator.

No one ever said GWBush was a "great orator".
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 06, 2012 05:44PM
Quote
decay
Bush and Obama have both spoken major gaffes. This is one of them.
"Mission Accomplished," etc.
"You Didn't Build That"

It might not (or might) be what he meant, but either way, it was poorly spoken and the opposition has every right to jump on it, but to blow it out of proportion is (sadly) the way political campaigns have to be run nowadays, especially Presidential bids.

Obama has to own his mistakes; so does Romney, and so did other Presidents.

It's just a shame what the democratic process has become in our country.

There was definitely a lot of raised eyebrows, guffaws and consternation over the "Mission Accomplished" thing. But I think the difference there was that Bush operated at a time when the nation felt they had to "Support Our Troops" - which, to me, was a great way to get around anti-war sentiment because if you were "anti-war" then you could be spun into being "anti-troops", which wasn't going to win you points in the nation. They were able to wage what essentially was an illegal war without all the nasty fallout we experienced during the Vietnam War.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 06, 2012 05:46PM
I'm going to link to this good essay about this topic and then I'm done with this. That. Those.

Quote

But a common-sense reading that includes the sentences before and after the famous 14 words shows Obama, quite evidently winging it off note cards and not reading from the dreaded teleprompter, meant the pronoun to refer to "this unbelievable American system" that includes roads and bridges and the Internet.

Read it for yourself:

"Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business — you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

Obama's next sentence underscores this interpretation: "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative but also because we do things together."

The appeal for perspective and humility from life's winners is nothing new. Elizabeth Warren, the Democratic U.S. Senate candidate in Massachusetts, got a lot of favorable attention from the left last fall for a viral video showing a passage from impromptu remarks to supporters that began, "There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody."

Does this interdependence, which Obama hammered on Friday in arguing that it takes more than just intelligence and hard work to succeed, justify asking higher earners to contribute a slightly greater percentage of their income in order to maintain the architecture of success?

Good question. Let's talk about that rather than indulge in the distracting pleasures of gaffe exploitation.

Let's ask about the policy implications of the fact that "there are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepreneurs and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs."

Which denigrator of rugged American individualism said so?

Mitt Romney, speaking Wednesday.

[articles.chicagotribune.com]


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 06, 2012 05:48PM
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: john dough
Date: August 06, 2012 07:34PM
Quote
Mac-A-Matic
Quote
john dough
Don't walk this back. The GOP is presenting something he did NOT say as something he did and the righties are lapping up what is basically a lie. If you want to rail at presidential miscues, where was your voice when Bush was doing MUCH worse than this daily??

John-
This is where the Blind Liberalism seems to rear its head.

What I've posted has nothing to do with some GOP presentation - and to state that the quote is something he did not say is an outright lie and fabrication. Simply read the transcript and/or review the video. Those were the words spoken by the president.

And perhaps you've forgotten (because it's more convenient for your argument), but I was critical of the Bush Administration during those years on this forum.

I do remember the Bush years on this forum where the liberal types were all too eager to jump on any presidential miscues. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, we find the liberal types trying to downplay (or in your quote above: cover up) presidential missteps.

This is merely a distraction from the miscues that Romney is racking up, seemingly daily. I did not see your criticism of the Bush years, and if you did that (which you should have, as W deserved it), my apologies for accusing you of blindly defending him, as others have done. Obama is not without his faults (continuation of the Bush tax cuts, continuation of warrentless wire taps and the not ending the war in Afghanistan, off the top of my head) yet his faults, compared to presidents, historically (and ESPECIALLY compared to his predecessor) are quite in line. If you want to play the game of "he/she said it", we can go over all of the things that Romney (corporations are people) or Cheney (go f••• yourself) or Palin (I read all of the magazines) said and have a blast.

Yes, dissect the words he did say. He was saying that the whole of what creates a business is not entirely due to the person that "owns" or "builds" it. It is part of the whole, as it was the complete thought that led to what he "said". This is a big sticking point for those that want to nail him for stating it, but he is dead right; without the help of others and the hard work of us all, no business will survive.

If you want to take what he said without what proceeeds or follows, then sure, he will look as bad as the GOP wants. This is NOT a misstep and the shoes is not on the other foot; he never stated that people did not build their business (on their own). Try as hard as you want, this is manufactured contoversy from those who are doing far less for this country than Obama or the Democrats.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2012 07:36PM by john dough.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: decay
Date: August 06, 2012 09:10PM
You can build a business 100% yourself if you live on an island you own.

and yet, without customers - it will fail.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Avenger
Date: August 07, 2012 06:27AM
Saying you didn't build your business because you didn't build it 100% is a straw man argument. Nobody is denying that. He just said it to lay the ground work to raise taxes. There are plenty of roads and bridges in Mexico and Egypt too. What is coming out of those countries? A business is first and foremost the brainchild of its founder. EVERYBODY here knows it but are too much of a hack to admit it.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 09, 2012 08:45AM
Quote
john dough
This is merely a distraction from the miscues that Romney is racking up, seemingly daily. I did not see your criticism of the Bush years, and if you did that (which you should have, as W deserved it), my apologies for accusing you of blindly defending him, as others have done. Obama is not without his faults (continuation of the Bush tax cuts, continuation of warrentless wire taps and the not ending the war in Afghanistan, off the top of my head) yet his faults, compared to presidents, historically (and ESPECIALLY compared to his predecessor) are quite in line. If you want to play the game of "he/she said it", we can go over all of the things that Romney (corporations are people) or Cheney (go f••• yourself) or Palin (I read all of the magazines) said and have a blast.

Yes, dissect the words he did say. He was saying that the whole of what creates a business is not entirely due to the person that "owns" or "builds" it. It is part of the whole, as it was the complete thought that led to what he "said". This is a big sticking point for those that want to nail him for stating it, but he is dead right; without the help of others and the hard work of us all, no business will survive.

If you want to take what he said without what proceeeds or follows, then sure, he will look as bad as the GOP wants. This is NOT a misstep and the shoes is not on the other foot; he never stated that people did not build their business (on their own). Try as hard as you want, this is manufactured contoversy from those who are doing far less for this country than Obama or the Democrats.


John-
You probably didn't see my criticisms during the Bush years because I don't drink the Kool-Aid. I'm critical of all government and neither subscribe to liberal or conservative party lines (like so many here do).

And while I do agree that Obama is about in line with the problems of other presidents, I think his is more glaring - simply because he's going to be scrutinized more because he's not white and because he's the first black president. There's a whole segment of the population chomping at the bit to get this black president out of office. They could care less who is president - so long as it's not a black person.

I don't think you'll find any entrepreneur who will honestly state that he "built the business all my himself" because all of us (those who have built businesses) know the difficulties of starting up a company, marshaling resources, drumming up support, putting together a great team and the whole juggling act.

The president's misstep (which is magnified by the Tribute quote stating that the president started winging his speech) is that simple sentence - regardless of the build up and overall theme. It was an absolutely poor choice of words - one word that slaps hundreds and thousands of entrepreneurs in the face: you didn't build that.

The business owner, unlike corporate execs, employees and the rest, has the most skin in the game. This is the person who doesn't get to go home at night and leave work behind. This is the person who cannot simply quit like an employee. He cannot simply walk away. He's there for the long haul, sweating, analyzing, negotiating, glad handing and doing everything he can to Build That - not only for his own benefit, but that of his family and the employees. He's working hard because he knows the decisions he makes will affect the livelihood of the people that work so very hard for him. They have families to support and the business owner knows this. He provides guidance and mentorship. He works with the government to pay taxes and find ways to improve the community. And when things are tight, he's also the last person to get paid - and he has the most skin in the game.

So for what many of you seems like a minor issue, it is not. That poor choice of words is a slap in the face to business owners- who are rightfully upset by what has been said. The president knows this - which is why he's still trying to do damage control.

In many respects, this "You didn't build that" is just as ridiculous and insulting as the Bush "Mission Accomplished" meme.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Mac-A-Matic
Date: August 09, 2012 08:46AM
Quote
decay
You can build a business 100% yourself if you live on an island you own.

and yet, without customers - it will fail.

If you live alone on an island why would you open a business if there were no customers?

You call yourself a fool.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 09, 2012 10:11AM
Quote
Mac-A-Matic
Quote
decay
You can build a business 100% yourself if you live on an island you own.

and yet, without customers - it will fail.

If you live alone on an island why would you open a business if there were no customers?

You call yourself a fool.

Hey, that sounds like Supply Side Economics. When you put it like that, it is kind of stupid.
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Re: You Didn't Build That (graphic rebuttal)
Posted by: decay
Date: August 09, 2012 10:04PM
Quote
Mac-A-Matic
Quote
decay
You can build a business 100% yourself if you live on an island you own.

and yet, without customers - it will fail.

If you live alone on an island why would you open a business if there were no customers?

You call yourself a fool.

tourist attraction!

but you get my point, right?




[www.giyf.com]
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