advertisement
Deals | News | Forums

 

AAPL stock: $442.93 ( +9.67 )

*Cached every 60 seconds. For live updating, Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
Page 1 of 2    Pages: 12Next
Newer Topic Older Topic
Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: swampy
Date: August 09, 2012 01:03PM
I've been waiting for someone to open a thread on this, but perhaps you missed it in the news since all three major networks have been loath to mention it. To CNNs credit, they have debunked this and pointed out the obvious facts. In case you haven't seen the ad, it can be seen on YouTube.

[www.youtube.com]

Joe Soptic is known to the Obama campaign; so well know that is bio appeared on the Obama campaign site. Soptic claims Baine Capital closed down his steel mill and he lost his job and insurance in 2001 and Romney is at fault. Fact is, Romney left Bain Capital in 1999. Soptic's wife had insurance through her employment for several years after he lost his job. She died in 2006, seven years after Romney left Bain.

No one from the Obama campaign has stepped up to denounce this ad. I have no idea how much lower the Dems can go after this, but I'm sure there are a few around here that will defend this.




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 01:14PM
The best thing about this ad is the Romney camp's response to it:

Romney official spokeswoman Andrea Saul:

"“To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Andrea Saul, Romney’s campaign press secretary, said during an appearance on Fox News. “There are a lot of people losing their jobs and losing their health care in President [Barack] Obama’s economy.”

OOPS!!


As for the ad itself, it was not produced by nor approved by the Obama campaign, so they are under no obligation to comment on it.
Same goes for Romney and all the ads his supporting PACs are putting out.

And what line in the ad is false, specifically? The CNN article does not point out any statement of Mr. Soptic's that is false, does it?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 09, 2012 01:16PM
It's been on TPM for the last couple of days.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 09, 2012 01:26PM
swampy... like many of us, I'm avoiding these ads. From both sides. Because they are generally only partially true, and as a result are devoid of useful information for anyone who wants to make a fully informed political decision.

Continuing to give them attention is like reacting to a toddler having a temper tantrum. It merely reinforces the toddler's belief that a temper tantrum guarantees parental attention, which was the desired outcome in the first place.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: August 09, 2012 01:49PM



"Mitt Romney’s ardent supporters are fit to be tied today. Andrea Saul cited Romneycare approvingly, conservatives rightly piled on, and Romney supporters are defending the guy.

“You’re hurting him,” cried one.

“Thanks for making this the big story of the day, Jackass,” cried another.

Andrea Saul made this the big story of the day. She is hurting Romney. She is an official voice of the campaign. This was an unforced error of monumental idiocy and the blowback is deserved, appropriate, and — most importantly — absolutely necessary."

[www.redstate.com]


Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: billb
Date: August 09, 2012 01:55PM
The best thing about this ad is Obama's campaign drones claiming not only having nothing to do with the Pac ads, which may or may not be true, but also claiming to know "nothing" about the Soptic family and yet you can go to BarackObama's official campaign site and the Soptics are right there.


Paint in the lies to the Soptic "story" and you have arrogant rich people who really believe they can say and write anything and believe the poor and middle class (that they pretend to represent) are clueless dolts who will lap up anything they claim, true or not.
Shame is, they're right.




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 09, 2012 02:03PM
The ad is very misleading. Unfortunately, there are so many instances of outright lying going on this election cycle that being very misleading doesn't make this ad anywhere near the worst - in fact, it's pretty typical of the kinds of ads that the campaigns are heavily relying on this year.

Nice to see that you don't think Fox is a major network. winking smiley
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: August West
Date: August 09, 2012 02:11PM
Conservative crocodile tears -- LAUGHABLE.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 02:13PM
They had an in-depth discussion of this on Talk of the Nation. The much-vilified "liberal" NPR is the best place to keep abreast of the facts.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 02:14PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Romney official spokeswoman Andrea Saul:

"“To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Andrea Saul, Romney’s campaign press secretary, said during an appearance on Fox News. “There are a lot of people losing their jobs and losing their health care in President [Barack] Obama’s economy.”

OOPS!!

She is in deep doo-doo for that one.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 02:19PM
Yes Obama's campaign people were wrong to say they'd never heard of this family.

And the ad is crap, but not false.

The question is do you want to vote for the guy who says his number one priority is to repeal health care reform, and who offers no alternative? This Soptic guy's very sad story is about a low income family with inadequate health insurance, a situation that this man believes caused his wife to delay seeking what could have been life-saving treatment. That happens all the time in our country, every day. Health care reform is about ending that and Romney knows it. He also knows he's not going to repeal or barely even touch PPACA if he's elected. (chances of that looking very slim at this point)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 02:20PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
And what line in the ad is false, specifically? The CNN article does not point out any statement of Mr. Soptic's that is false, does it?

As Glenn Kessler, "Fact Checker" columnist for The Washington Post, pointed out on the commie-@#$%& NPR program I mentioned earlier:

KESSLER: Right, well, that ad - this particular case, this Bain Capital transaction, you can make a case that Bain Capital took a lot of money out of this company and left it short and didn't live up to promises it had made when it took it over, including taking away people's health care.

It gets a little murky, because when a lot of stuff bad happened to that plant, Mitt Romney had already moved on to running the Winter Olympics. He was not really actively managing Bain Capital. And you could maybe make a case that because people with cancer, if they don't have health insurance, they're more likely to die of cancer.

But the ad doesn't really say that. It basically suggests that Mitt Romney, himself, was responsible for this woman's death, even though her death actually happened when he was governor of Massachusetts, had no - and Bain was no longer - hadn't been involved with that company for five years.

So it just - I wrote that it reminded me of that so-called butterfly effect, where the wings of the butterfly causes a storm, and that's what they seem to be suggesting here.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 02:26PM
Yeah Kessler keeps milking that "Romney wasn't there!" thing, which is how his campaign wanted to frame that time at Bain. Kessler is a very good soldier for Mitt Romney.
The ad does not suggest that Mitt Romney killed the guy's wife. That's an inflammatory description that gets Romney fans riled, but that's about it.
To me he's saying the lack of affordable health insurance led his wife not to seek care earlier. That's the problem health care reform (including Romneycare) seeks to correct.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 02:32PM
I happen to agree that to connect the woman's death to Romney in any way, shape or form is exceedingly cheesy and rude.

I can easily see using that story to point out why health insurance shouldn't be doled out by employers as a perk, and why we all need to have health insurance. I can't see it being used as an anti-Romney message. It's unfair to act as if the man is some kind of satanic brute.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 02:38PM by $tevie.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 09, 2012 02:33PM
I hear Obama was in Hawaii. And they had a Hurricane there some time later.

It's Obama's Fault !

After all, that's the definition of 'The Butterfly Effect"... " A butterfly flaps its wings in Chicago, and that alters the path of a Hurricane that destroys a city half a world away" .

Seriously, if people are going to use Chaos Theory to discuss political fear mongering, they should use it correctly.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 02:34PM
What was incorrect in the way it was used?


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 02:38PM
I just watched the ad again because I don't get where people are hearing "Mitt Romney killed my wife."

He IS accusing Romney of being involved with management decisions at Bain during the time this plant was closed. Romney's camp wants to pretend, evidence to the contrary, that Romney wasn't involved then because they are well aware of the decisions made during that time and how they directly and negatively impacted workers, such as Mr. Soptic.

But he is not saying that Mitt Romney is personally responsible for the death - he describes a tragic chain of events (in terms too vague to do his story justice, which is the problem with these types of ads to begin with.)

I hate the ad, I really do. But I understand and am sympathetic to what this gentleman is saying.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 02:40PM
To me it is taking an unfortunate coincidence and trying to make it seem as if it was malice aforethought.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: August West
Date: August 09, 2012 02:43PM
Quote

Yeah Kessler keeps milking that "Romney wasn't there!" thing, which is how his campaign wanted to frame that time at Bain.

It's perfectly obvious that Gov. Romney had retroactively retired at that point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 02:43PM by August West.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 09, 2012 03:03PM
Quote
August West
Quote

Yeah Kessler keeps milking that "Romney wasn't there!" thing, which is how his campaign wanted to frame that time at Bain.

It's perfectly obvious that Gov. Romney had retroactively retired at that point.

jest smiley
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 03:20PM
Quote
$tevie
To me it is taking an unfortunate coincidence and trying to make it seem as if it was malice aforethought.

I just don't hear that. His first line is "I don't think Mitt Romney and Bain realize what they are doing..." or something like that. He's saying they do this stuff with no regard, no thought for the consequences long term or short. So he wants to let them know what happened in his case. He does not suggest that they wanted it to happen.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 09, 2012 03:42PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
... He does not suggest that they wanted it to happen.

No, but the authors of the ad sure as Hades want you to think that is the case. I'm waiting for the next iteration.

OMG ! Romney wants to EAT YOUR BABIES !!!! OMG !
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 03:45PM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
Lemon Drop
... He does not suggest that they wanted it to happen.

No, but the authors of the ad sure as Hades want you to think that is the case. I'm waiting for the next iteration.

OMG ! Romney wants to EAT YOUR BABIES !!!! OMG !

Did you listen to/watch the ad? Above you said you were ignoring them all.
And I disagree that Mr. Soptic's intent in telling his story is that people will think Mitt Romney killed his wife, or wanted her to die. I hear nothing to support that.
In fact, by saying "I don't think they realize" he's suggesting that if they understood the long term impacts of job loss in a country where most health insurance is employment-based, they might want to do things differently. You know, maybe something like Romneycare for the entire nation?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 04:25PM
Quote

I don’t know how long she was sick, and I think maybe she didn’t say anything because she knew that we couldn’t afford the insurance. And then one day she became ill and I took her up to the Jackson County Hospital and admitted her for pneumonia. And that’s when they found the cancer, and by then it was stage four. It was, there was nothing they could do for her.

And she passed away in 22 days.

"I think maybe she didn’t say anything because she knew that we couldn’t afford the insurance". Come on, this is a tenuous link to Romney and Bain, at best. There are thousands of people who find out they have cancer after it is too late to treat it. MAYBE she didn't want to hear the diagnosis, which is all too common I'm afraid. MAYBE she didn't realize that she felt bad because of illness and not depression. MAYBE she has a high pain threshold. I can't defend this sort of guesswork, even if it is being done by her husband.

This is just pure propaganda and I don't want to support it in any way.

By now everyone knows I am gung-ho for the Democrats to pull out all the stops, but this is beyond the pale.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 04:26PM by $tevie.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: swampy
Date: August 09, 2012 05:28PM
Apparently Soptic admitted on video that Bain offered him a buy out, but he didn't take it.

[www.youtube.com]




If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 05:46PM by swampy.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 06:03PM
Quote
swampy
Apparently Soptic admitted on video that Bain offered him a buy out, but he didn't take it.

[www.youtube.com]

[townhall.com]

I'm going to wait for the unedited interview and the back story on that. Offering a "buy out" doesn't mean it was a good deal for the workers, or that they were offering to continue benefits after the plant closed. What was the offer? The insinuation of the townhall story is at least as sleazy as this ad.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 09, 2012 06:19PM
OK, here's the full, 7 month old interview with Joe Soptic. I'm not sure Romney's campaign really wanted townhall.com to dig this up.

His interview starts at 54:20, general info about Bain's management of this company starts at 50:30.

[www.democracynow.org]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: mick e
Date: August 09, 2012 06:55PM
Unfortunately this is not an isolated story. When vulture capitalists buy company assets in the form of working companies, people lose jobs, benefits, savings and a whole lot more.

It's happening every day in this country.



Unpaid Social Liaison
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: mick e
Date: August 09, 2012 06:58PM
Mitt Romney likes to be "proud" of Bain Capital, until people find out what the company actually did, and how it made its money. Then, he's a "figurehead" absentee owner.

Everything needs to be convenient for Mitt. That's why he has an elevator for his fricking cars.



Unpaid Social Liaison
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Black
Date: August 09, 2012 07:21PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
OK, here's the full, 7 month old interview with Joe Soptic. I'm not sure Romney's campaign really wanted townhall.com to dig this up.

His interview starts at 54:20, general info about Bain's management of this company starts at 50:30.

[www.democracynow.org]

Agree-- calling any attention to Soptic at all is only going to help educate voters as to the reality of Romney's legacy as a Job Destroyer.


MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Kiva
Date: August 09, 2012 08:01PM
the ad is low-brow politics. I'm not totally sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, we're all sick of this crap the leading questions, the 1/2 truths, the innuendo.

On the other hand, it's straight out of the Karl Rove playbook and the GOP cries foul when the shoe is on the other foot. The dems appear to be playing hardball this time around...should be interesting.


----------------------
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 09, 2012 10:00PM
I do have to agree that it takes brass balls for the Republicans to complain about it.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 09, 2012 10:46PM
Didn't they write the playbook when they decided to go Swiftboating?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: davester
Date: August 09, 2012 11:42PM
I'm not going to listen to that ad because listening to such ads takes about 10 off your IQ. Listening to such ads and thinking about what they mean takes at least 20.

As to republicans complaining about unfair democratic ads, all I have to say to you is SWIFT BOAT!



"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: billb
Date: August 10, 2012 12:17AM
Well there's another completely false equivalency.

The Swift Boat lies about Kerry were complete fabrications and had absolutely no basis in fact.


There's no disputing Romney's being listed as Ceo of Bain for several years after claiming to have left Bain. It's cast in stone in SEC documents. What's debatable is what being listed means.
If your punditry requires it meaning he must have actively there then that's the choice of what it means.
There is no law anywhere that requires any one listed as CEO has to actually fulfill some imaginary or real definition that doesn't exist.
Yeah, Romney is a slippery as an eel wordsmith . He had great mentors in Clinton and Teddy-poo. So did Obama.




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 10, 2012 12:50AM
"The Swift Boat lies about Kerry were complete fabrications and had absolutely no basis in fact."

Tell that to the 35% of voters who to this day think Kerry was a traitor in uniform and maybe should be executed.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: mick e
Date: August 10, 2012 06:29AM
Actually mick e is surprised to read a cogent, realistic post by billb. It's true - as borderline as this ad is in terms of skewing facts and dramatizing a narrative, it simply does not compare to the naked absurdity of the Swift Boat campaign.

But then - reality sets in, and the REAL billb returns, blaming Mitt Romney's failings on Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy. CLASSIC.



Unpaid Social Liaison
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: billb
Date: August 10, 2012 07:05AM
a spoon full of sugar might help with swallowing non- party line dogma hook line and sinker




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: August 10, 2012 08:08AM
Quote
swampy
No one from the Obama campaign has stepped up to denounce this ad.

This is not an Obama campaing paid ad. There have been several Romney campaign ads that were flat out lies, along with the candidate himself making statements that are lies. He has not corrected or apologized for any of them. People seem to accept Romney lies and give him a continual pass.


in tha 510.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 10, 2012 08:17AM
The ad is probably more equivalent to "Willie Horton" in that it presents a drama based on a grain of truth in such a way as to render it BS.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 10, 2012 08:51AM
Quote
billb
There is no law anywhere that requires any one listed as CEO has to actually fulfill some imaginary or real definition that doesn't exist.
.


BUNK!!!!!!

According to the SEC, with whom the docs were filed showing Romney as CEO, being named CEO makes you responsible for the decisions made at the company during that time. If they come after somebody legally, it's going to be the people listed in those docs. That is not an empty exercise, and it has serious, real, legal implications.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: August 10, 2012 08:55AM
Shouldn't the proper term be "swift yachting" ?


Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: mick e
Date: August 10, 2012 09:12AM




Unpaid Social Liaison
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: kanesa
Date: August 10, 2012 01:38PM
I think the "Willie Horton" ad was a big factor why Dukakis lost the election. Yes, I think the New ad is low brow and classless but I think the Democrats may have grown a pair. I have been hoping they would run a hard campaign against Mittens. They can't run on the economy. They have to attack Romney himself to make the masses not vote against Obama. I say keep them coming; no more Mister Nice Guy.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: billb
Date: August 10, 2012 02:08PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
billb
There is no law anywhere that requires any one listed as CEO has to actually fulfill some imaginary or real definition that doesn't exist.
.


BUNK!!!!!!

According to the SEC, with whom the docs were filed showing Romney as CEO, being named CEO makes you responsible for the decisions made at the company during that time. If they come after somebody legally, it's going to be the people listed in those docs. That is not an empty exercise, and it has serious, real, legal implications.

BUNK!!! to the BUNK !!!!

responsibility for calling the shots is not the same as actually calling the shots for which there is no definition applicable to
CEO and acting CEO are not necessarily the same.
Next you'll be claiming the President can do his job from a ranch basement.




[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: August West
Date: August 10, 2012 02:28PM
Quote
LD
According to the SEC, with whom the docs were filed showing Romney as CEO, being named CEO makes you responsible for the decisions made at the company during that time.

Quote
billb
responsibility for calling the shots is not the same as actually calling the shots for which there is no definition applicable to
CEO and acting CEO are not necessarily the same.

Really, billb? Is that your best shot? It would have been better to remain silent.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 10, 2012 02:59PM
I think this is a case where everybody is right and everybody is wrong. The more I read about Romney and Bain, the more I see that it isn't as simple as was he the CEO or not. It appears that legally he is responsible for anything they did, but in fact he could have been totally unaware of what was going on and still be considered the CEO on paper. Evidently it's legal to have a do-nothing CEO in a private equity firm -- it seems that private equity firms don't legally have to have a CEO at all, although that person can be sued even if they didn't do a damn thing while CEO.

I think that it would be very bad judgment to have oneself able to be held legally liable for a bunch of decisions that one was completely oblivious to. And I find it hard to believe that Romney would allow himself to be put in that position; if he did than I think that makes him a pretty poor candidate for someone to be in charge of much of anything at all, let alone an entire country. Folks should be wary of who is going to be in the cabinet because they may very well be the people actually making any decisions.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 10, 2012 03:06PM
I'm under the impression that the main reasons Bain kept Romney listed as CEO or other management role on over 39 separate SEC filings during the time he now says he was "retroactively retired" were his reputation as a manager (he inspired trust in investors) and because of the large share of ownership/control he maintained in the company's various investments.

So Bain certainly wanted people to think Romney was in control, even if he was off having fun in Utah at the same time. Now that some of the business decisions made during that time are political embarassing, he wants to "retroactively retire."

He's either proud of this business or he's not - he should decide, and let voters be the judge of whether that reflects the type of leadership they want for our country.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 10, 2012 03:11PM
That is what is so absurd about the whole thing. Romney wants to cherry-pick which parts of Bain we are supposed to think indicate his potential as a leader. Again, I think he has decided he can win by courting the dummkopf vote.


"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Mitt Romney killed my wife ad
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 10, 2012 03:32PM
Quote
$tevie
I think this is a case where everybody is right and everybody is wrong. The more I read about Romney and Bain, the more I see that it isn't as simple as was he the CEO or not. It appears that legally he is responsible for anything they did, but in fact he could have been totally unaware of what was going on and still be considered the CEO on paper. Evidently it's legal to have a do-nothing CEO in a private equity firm -- it seems that private equity firms don't legally have to have a CEO at all, although that person can be sued even if they didn't do a damn thing while CEO.

Yeah, I think the discussion needs to progress with people making a clear distinction about whether they are talking about legal responsibility or responsibility in practice (actually having a decisive role in the decision making).

There is a question that hangs over this issue though that may make a difference depending on how you assess the situation: are Romney and his business partners telling the truth about what happened? They have provided no documentation yet. Perhaps I'm just too cynical, but taking Romney at his word is not something I'm prepared to do based on what I've seen of him so far and I'm not inclined to take the word of aggressive business people (Romney's partners) who have a vested interest in backing up Romney's claims. I'm not saying they are lying, just that I think there is good reason to be suspicious until documentation verifies their account. I'm going to go with not trusting and verify.

Quote
$tevie
I think that it would be very bad judgment to have oneself able to be held legally liable for a bunch of decisions that one was completely oblivious to. And I find it hard to believe that Romney would allow himself to be put in that position; if he did than I think that makes him a pretty poor candidate for someone to be in charge of much of anything at all, let alone an entire country. Folks should be wary of who is going to be in the cabinet because they may very well be the people actually making any decisions.

I suspect that when Romney went off to chair the Salt Lake City Olympic organizing committee that he wanted to leave things at Bain in a state where he could slip back in to his old role if he wanted to. I think he probably decided he could trust his partners enough to take the chance (plus he probably had people keeping an eye on each other and reporting back to him about what was going on - at least in the most crucial aspects). I also have a hard time, though, believing that he was willing to relinquish at least veto power over critical decisions, so I can't shake this feeling that there was a reasonably good chance that he was much more involved in Bain than he is saying.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Page 1 of 2    Pages: 12Next
Newer Topic Older Topic
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login