[news.yahoo.com]

If you look at all the Billions that are built into the law, it's astounding to think that businesses will make any amount of money. It's official--we are now Europe. We are socialist state. There's no point of working hard and studying your youth away. Now you can simply coast along and let someone else pay for it all.

Unions and large employers will be at each others' throats over their Cadillac health plans. It's going to be ugly...

Just in case you thought you were safe, the 2% tax will catch increasingly more people (just like the Alternative Minimum Tax) because it is not adjusted for inflation. Thus, in 10 years, those who are currently making $150,000 may very well be caught by the tax (because presumably their salaries will go up to $200,000).

In addition, here is a killer: "~4 million individuals without insurance are expected to pay about $55 billion over eight years." How in the world will these 4 million people pay $13,750 for this insurance when they don't/can't afford $0 today?


In the end, it will wind up with the same old question, 'how do we pay for all these entitlements?' Raise taxes and borrow against the future. Ugh...I am really worried for my kids when they grow up.

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All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2012 02:43PM by wowzer.

Feel free to quit your job and go on welfare, since you're so put upon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2012 02:51PM by p8712.

Considering that the government's prized achievement is the swollen ranks on food stamps you may be on to something. And don't forget that unemployment actually grows the economy.

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wowzer
[news.yahoo.com]

"~4 million individuals without insurance are expected to pay about $55 billion over eight years." How in the world will these 4 million people pay $13,750 for this insurance when they don't/can't afford $0 today?

Did you do the math? That works out to about $143/month. I would LOVE it if my insurance premiums were that low.

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[www.flickr.com] [picasaweb.google.com]

Maybe some B vitamins can help you get out of this permanent depression of yours, wowzer.

If it's true that "All [you] ever really needed to know, [you] learned from watching Star Trek", then you must have been misunderstanding most of what you saw on that show. That's like the Love Thy Neighbor-iest show in the world.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2012 03:03PM by $tevie.

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Uncle Wig

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wowzer
[news.yahoo.com]

"~4 million individuals without insurance are expected to pay about $55 billion over eight years." How in the world will these 4 million people pay $13,750 for this insurance when they don't/can't afford $0 today?

Did you do the math? That works out to about $143/month. I would LOVE it if my insurance premiums were that low.

Besides which, an awful lot of those people just plain don't feel like having insurance. They'd rather let me pay for their hospital visits. Fork'em.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Wowzer. You're way overreacting.

It's ugly, NOW. Not in the future. Now. It's just not ugly for "you." It's not about just what works for you and yours. It's about what works for everyone.

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wowzer


Ugh...I am really worried for my kids when they grow up.

Leviticus style indentured servitude slavery equivalent won't be so bad, shouldn't take too many generations of picking tea leaves by the bucket full to pay off the national debt held by the Chinese.

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Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

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Uncle Wig

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wowzer
[news.yahoo.com]

"~4 million individuals without insurance are expected to pay about $55 billion over eight years." How in the world will these 4 million people pay $13,750 for this insurance when they don't/can't afford $0 today?

Did you do the math? That works out to about $143/month. I would LOVE it if my insurance premiums were that low.

I would be all over $143 a month for health insurance. My husband's Medicare supplement is that much.

I had a great thought the other day. Why not let younger people buy into Medicare. Charge them the full amount for part A and B and let then get a supplement, if they want. That way they could get relatively affordable insurance and, because the younger you are usually the less you will use insurance, it would also be a boon to Medicare, as the premiums from the younger people not using the service as much would pay for all the elderly who are always atbthe doctor. Seems like a win/win to me.

I know I heard someone float an idea of letting other people sign up for Medicare coverage, during the health care debate, but it seems like a really good idea to me.

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Alpharetta, GA (Atlanta suburb)

That's the idea my mother keeps bringing up. Her suggestion is to let anyone 50+ use Medicare as their insurance plan, paying for it as you suggest.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

They called it medicare for everyone during the debate -- a version of single payer or the public option -- but there didn't seem to be much interest in it by the majority.

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$tevie
That's the idea my mother keeps bringing up. Her suggestion is to let anyone 50+ use Medicare as their insurance plan, paying for it as you suggest.

Can't see how it would be a bad idea, but I would love to see it open to younger people, too, because they would most likely use it less, and it would still make them covered individuals and most likely be less expensive than some other options. Why not let those of us who want the single payer option buy into it and those that want the private option go that route.

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Alpharetta, GA (Atlanta suburb)

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Ca Bob
They called it medicare for everyone during the debate -- a version of single payer or the public option -- but there didn't seem to be much interest in it by the majority.

The majority of the idiots in Congress? It is no wonder, since it would be a simple solution that made sense and didn't line any major contributor's pockets.

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Alpharetta, GA (Atlanta suburb)

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rgG
Why not let those of us who want the single payer option buy into it and those that want the private option go that route.

That's an incredibly cruel and mean spirited idea. Just thing of all those insurance execs that would have to go without their yachts. It's a good thing that congress has been protecting those poor people.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland

Has everyone received their insurance rebate checks? Those came directly out of the pocket of insurance company execs. If Obamacare leaves you unenthused this should act a small salve.

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billb

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wowzer


Ugh...I am really worried for my kids when they grow up.

Leviticus style indentured servitude slavery equivalent won't be so bad, shouldn't take too many generations of picking tea leaves by the bucket full to pay off the national debt held by the Chinese.

Do you have to give up your Romneycare to get Obamacare when it fully kicks in, or can you opt out?

Perhaps we all have a different perspective. I see a lot (I am the vast majority) of medicaid folks. I have chosen to work at a safety net hospital. I see some of their limitations (financial and sometimes psychological). I wonder if there are any social workers here (who work in inner cities) that share my concerns. I suspect that the folks here really do not understand the magnitude of the distress and trouble.

I usually stay silent on things, but in this case, I'm fairly certain that silence will not help. It would appear that I cannot affect this community. I will stay silent.

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All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY

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wowzer
Perhaps we all have a different perspective. I see a lot (I am the vast majority) of medicaid folks. I have chosen to work at a safety net hospital. I see some of their limitations (financial and sometimes psychological). I wonder if there are any social workers here (who work in inner cities) that share my concerns. I suspect that the folks here really do not understand the magnitude of the distress and trouble.

I usually stay silent on things, but in this case, I'm fairly certain that silence will not help. It would appear that I cannot affect this community. I will stay silent.

I don't get your point. I thought your OP was about not having the government control health insurance and now you are talking about the plight of Medicaid recipients. Do you want more aid for them? If so, isn't this feeding into the 'we are now Europe' theory. Really, I don't understand where you are coming from here.

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Alpharetta, GA (Atlanta suburb)

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wowzer
Perhaps we all have a different perspective. I see a lot (I am the vast majority) of medicaid folks. I have chosen to work at a safety net hospital. I see some of their limitations (financial and sometimes psychological). I wonder if there are any social workers here (who work in inner cities) that share my concerns. I suspect that the folks here really do not understand the magnitude of the distress and trouble.

I usually stay silent on things, but in this case, I'm fairly certain that silence will not help. It would appear that I cannot affect this community. I will stay silent.

I help operate an emergency shelter, yes I'm well aware of the various problems associated with poverty. I've also seen how even small amounts of government attention to these problems help, and cuts hurt, a lot.
PPACA specifically addresses Medicaid and increases reimbursements for providers, among other things.
I find that your listed concerns (primarily taxes to be owed by a small subset) have little to do with addressing the problems of poverty, if that's your concern, but maybe I've missed something.

What are your suggestions then if say PPACA were repealed? (which it is not going to be)

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RgrF

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billb

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wowzer


Ugh...I am really worried for my kids when they grow up.

Leviticus style indentured servitude slavery equivalent won't be so bad, shouldn't take too many generations of picking tea leaves by the bucket full to pay off the national debt held by the Chinese.

Do you have to give up your Romneycare to get Obamacare when it fully kicks in, or can you opt out?

I'm quite sure some of those in bureaucratic positions in Masshealth and the Connector are wishing the whole state could.
I imagine the transition will be a small nightmare for some. It will pass.


We'lll probably have a state fine and a fed fine for individually opting out now.

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Kooper's Flute Thing cover

[www.freethegrapes.org]

norwegian wood reality TV

[www.youtube.com]

wowzer, I have a lot of respect for people who become MD's and apply their craft diligently and well, so my comment here is in no way meant to detract from your contributions. If you decide to participate in another forum with the intent to persuade others, though, I would think that starting out with hyperbole like this would be counterproductive there (as it is here) to that purpose: "We are socialist state. There's no point of working hard and studying your youth away. Now you can simply coast along and let someone else pay for it all." Such over-the-top expressions tend to put off people who may not initially agree with you but are otherwise open to your genuine arguments.

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wowzer
Perhaps we all have a different perspective. I see a lot (I am the vast majority) of medicaid folks. I have chosen to work at a safety net hospital. I see some of their limitations (financial and sometimes psychological). I wonder if there are any social workers here (who work in inner cities) that share my concerns. I suspect that the folks here really do not understand the magnitude of the distress and trouble.

I usually stay silent on things, but in this case, I'm fairly certain that silence will not help. It would appear that I cannot affect this community. I will stay silent.

You have a right to your perspective and a right to express it. You are a highly respected member of our forum always. You are a good guy to me and always have been and I'm sure you always will continue to be. We're just debating here (at least I think so). And you're a good photographer.

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rgG
I would be all over $143 a month for health insurance. My husband's Medicare supplement is that much.

I had a great thought the other day. Why not let younger people buy into Medicare. Charge them the full amount for part A and B and let then get a supplement, if they want. That way they could get relatively affordable insurance and, because the younger you are usually the less you will use insurance, it would also be a boon to Medicare, as the premiums from the younger people not using the service as much would pay for all the elderly who are always atbthe doctor. Seems like a win/win to me.

I like the idea but wanted to point out a couple things.

The premium for Part B is pretty reasonable but Part A (hospitalization) is really expensive. There are very, VERY few Medicare beneficiaries who are required to pay Part A premiums because anyone who has worked the equivalent of 40 full-time quarters (10 years) qualifies for Part A at no cost. I suppose if we kept the requirements the same, most people under 65 who would opt for Medicare would still qualify.

This is probably well known but technically we do allow younger people to buy into Medicare. Of course, it's not available to the general population, only those who are disabled.

But anyway, Medicare for all would be the single payer system that Democrats thought they could never get enough bi-partisan support to pass, so they went with what is now the ACA (which was originally a Republican idea).

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Medicare is a very generous fee-for-service system that benefits the elderly and disabled but is essentially paid for by workers not actually eligible for it.

We might be able to do a "Medicaid-for-all" (complete with formularies and restrictions on covered procedures), but not "Medicare for everyone."

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Bill in NC
Medicare is a very generous fee-for-service system that benefits the elderly and disabled but is essentially paid for by workers not actually eligible for it.

We might be able to do a "Medicaid-for-all" (complete with formularies and restrictions on covered procedures), but not "Medicare for everyone."

Sure we could. Right now most of us pay for private insurance, either through our employer or individually. With universal, single-payer care, we're no longer paying for that private insurance that is such a drain on our economy. Yes it would cost more than what we pay for Medicare tax now, but it would cost less than what many people pay now for private premiums.

Folks, I guess at this point, it's really moot what any of us believes (unless you work in the IRS/CMS and can control the interpretation of the law). We'll see how the costs go up/down. We'll see how this will affect businesses. We'll see how it may/or may not impact the future economic stability of the country.

For my part, I am simply concerned with anything that is 'free' or 'paid for' will be used excessively (and exploited by the fringes and masses). We'll see a lot of folks seeking to get their share of healthcare (since they 'paid' for it already), which will probably result in large costs. These increased costs will be transferred to the citizens. We'll have no choice but to tax businesses and individuals more, or reduce benefits and rationalize, or both. With each successive generation, we build rules upon rules and taxes upon taxes, each increasing the indebtedness of the nation.

We will see how this law will affect the country.

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All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY

No, Medicare as currently run is much too expensive to expand to all insured.

The increases in health care costs have been driven by the cost of care itself, not by administrative fees.

Again, as long as we can accept the cost-benefit analysis for both medicines and procedures that other nations use, we can do something like a "Medicaid for all."

But any such plan can't offer unlimited benefits for a sustainable system.

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Lemon Drop

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Bill in NC
Medicare is a very generous fee-for-service system that benefits the elderly and disabled but is essentially paid for by workers not actually eligible for it.

We might be able to do a "Medicaid-for-all" (complete with formularies and restrictions on covered procedures), but not "Medicare for everyone."

Sure we could. Right now most of us pay for private insurance, either through our employer or individually. With universal, single-payer care, we're no longer paying for that private insurance that is such a drain on our economy. Yes it would cost more than what we pay for Medicare tax now, but it would cost less than what many people pay now for private premiums.

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Bill in NC
No, Medicare as currently run is much too expensive to expand to all insured.

Let's see what happens down the road in Vermont, which already passed universal single payer healthcare (aka Medicare for all) into law. Or maybe one on the other 20 states where proponents are trying to get similar laws passed.

what's too expensive and unsustainable is our current system



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2012 07:00PM by Lemon Drop.

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RgrF
Has everyone received their insurance rebate checks? Those came directly out of the pocket of insurance company execs. If Obamacare leaves you unenthused this should act a small salve.

The ideologues are returning their checks to the insurance companies. Analogous to the Repub governors refusing to participate in ACA.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.