A disturbing trend. Violent crime is down, but the number of law enforcement officers killed while on duty is going up dramatically. 4 more shot this morning in Louisiana, 2 dead, 2 seriously injured.

This site of the upset sheriff or police chief having to do the press conference and announce his dead co-workers is getting frightenly routine.

Seems to mostly happen away from big cities, where police are under pressure from reduced forces due to budget cuts, violent people getting out of jail earlier due to budget cuts, and higher expectations from the public that police will confront violence more directly, something that puts officers in harms way. Oh and these criminals are able to get really effective weapons quite easily. Trained, armed people are no match for them.


[www.nytimes.com]

Too Many Guns !!!

Need more shootings in DC before anything will be done.

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Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

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Spock
Too Many Guns !!!

Need more shootings in DC before anything will be done.

The President of the United States was shot in 1981 and still they don't want to hear it.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Just the cost of doing business (living) here in 'murica.

yeah, but if they had guns to defend themselves, most wouldn't get shot................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ that's a lot of waiting.

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Spock
Too Many Guns !!!

Need more shootings in DC before anything will be done.

DC has some of the most restrictive gun laws of any city in the US. The incredible crime rate there is proof positive that criminalizing guns ensures that criminals own guns.

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cbelt3

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Spock
Too Many Guns !!!

Need more shootings in DC before anything will be done.

DC has some of the most restrictive gun laws of any city in the US. The incredible crime rate there is proof positive that criminalizing guns ensures that criminals own guns.

The guns used in DC crimes are mostly purchased in Virginia, where it's easy to get guns. Same for NYC. Right now 10 states provide the majority of guns used in crime all over the nation. One city or state can't do much to stem the tide, needs to be a national effort.

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Lemon Drop

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cbelt3

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Spock
Too Many Guns !!!

Need more shootings in DC before anything will be done.

DC has some of the most restrictive gun laws of any city in the US. The incredible crime rate there is proof positive that criminalizing guns ensures that criminals own guns.

The guns used in DC crimes are mostly purchased in Virginia, where it's easy to get guns. Same for NYC. Right now 10 states provide the majority of guns used in crime all over the nation. One city or state can't do much to stem the tide, needs to be a national effort.

Hmmm...if that's the case, shouldn't Virginia be a cesspool of crime, then??

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SDGuy

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Lemon Drop

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cbelt3

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Spock
Too Many Guns !!!

Need more shootings in DC before anything will be done.

DC has some of the most restrictive gun laws of any city in the US. The incredible crime rate there is proof positive that criminalizing guns ensures that criminals own guns.

The guns used in DC crimes are mostly purchased in Virginia, where it's easy to get guns. Same for NYC. Right now 10 states provide the majority of guns used in crime all over the nation. One city or state can't do much to stem the tide, needs to be a national effort.

Hmmm...if that's the case, shouldn't Virginia be a cesspool of crime, then??

That is the case. Look it up if you doubt.

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Lemon Drop

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SDGuy

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Lemon Drop

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cbelt3

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Spock
Too Many Guns !!!

Need more shootings in DC before anything will be done.

DC has some of the most restrictive gun laws of any city in the US. The incredible crime rate there is proof positive that criminalizing guns ensures that criminals own guns.

The guns used in DC crimes are mostly purchased in Virginia, where it's easy to get guns. Same for NYC. Right now 10 states provide the majority of guns used in crime all over the nation. One city or state can't do much to stem the tide, needs to be a national effort.

Hmmm...if that's the case, shouldn't Virginia be a cesspool of crime, then??

That is the case. Look it up if you doubt.

Hmmm...comparing Washington D.C. to Virginia (assuming a Washington D.C. population of 618K, I see the following:

Murder
Virginia: 3.77/100K
D.C.: 17.48/100K
U.S.: 5.0/100K

Forcible Sex Offenses:
Virginia: 63.04/100K
Forcible Rape:
D.C.: 27.83/100K
U.S.: 28.7/100K
(don't know if they are counting the same thing for the above, given the different terminology used, unlike for the other categories)

Robbery:
Virginia: 67.32/100K
D.C.: 607.77/100K
U.S.: 133/100K

Aggravated Assault:
Virginia: 109.19/100K
D.C.: 477.18/100K
U.S. 263/100K

Burglary:
Virginia: 375.94/100K
D.C.: 622.81/100K
U.S.: 716/100K
(Surprising - even Washington is below the U.S. average)

Larceny/Theft:
Virginia: 1784.59/100K
D.C.: 3256.31/100K
U.S.: 2061/100K

Motor Vehicle Theft:
Virginia: 118.77/100K
D.C.: 702.10/100K
U.S.: 259/100K

Arson:
Virginia: 14.41/100K
D.C.: 9.87/100K
U.S.: n/a

Overall, given the above, I'd choose to live in Virginia over Washington D.C.

But back on topic - yes, there are a few things that should be tightened up - background checks for ALL firearms purchases would be at the top of my list.
Even in California, it is perfectly legal to buy and walk out the door in a matter of minutes a magazine-fed semiautomatic rifle (for which 30 and 40 round magazines are quite common) just by filling out a form that more or less states "I am not a criminal" - all without a background check.

Edit - added U.S. overall rates (but for 2009 vice 2011, since that is the last year available) for comparison



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 06:43PM by SDGuy.

I lived in DC and in Virginia (lived in metro DC for 10 years)
What's your point?

You didn't look up where the guns come from, which is the point.

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Lemon Drop
I lived in DC and in Virginia (lived in metro DC for 10 years)
What's your point?

You didn't look up where the guns come from, which is the point.

I assume your hypothesis is that firearms are readily available in Virginia, thus leading to higher crime rates.

Given that Virginia has substantially lower crime rates (other than for arson - must be all those cross burnings) than neighboring Washington D.C., one can conclude that availability of firearms alone is not the proximate cause of increased crime rates - if anything, there is a correlation between lower crime rates and easier available of firearms.

I would posit, then, that other factors should be examined - namely, what differences are there between the populations in question?
Are there a higher per capita number of criminals in one geographic area compared to the other? Is there some factor that favors the commission of unlawful shootings in one area that is absent in another?

Yes, certain geographic areas have substantially more shootings - but WHY is the question. To remedy the situation, that question must first be examined...which I haven't seen yet on this forum, other than a simplistic assumption that the firearms themselves are the cause...

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SDGuy
To remedy the situation, that question must first be examined...which I haven't seen yet on this forum, other than a simplistic assumption that the firearms themselves are the cause...

Let me introduce you to Occam's razor.

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Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

"I assume your hypothesis is that firearms are readily available in Virginia, thus leading to higher crime rates."

GUNS are readily available to criminals who want them. That is the problem. States that make guns easily available contribute to the problem. Trying to make it about where criminals live is irrelevant.

As I thought...no desire to have deeper discourse over on this side...

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SDGuy
As I thought...no desire to have deeper discourse over on this side...

Changing the original topic because you don't like what it suggests, then criticize others for not taking up the new topic you introduce.

Nice.

I thought the original topic was criminals...
Face it - you just posted this topic to get some feel-good validation and reinforcement of whatever your views may be, NOT to have a discussion...

Also, you may want to re-read my second post...Virginia isn't the ONLY State that could use some tightening up (IMHO) - there are actually 32 other States out there as well - which, to me, seems a bit insane...

32 other states that what? Have loose gun laws? That sounds right but we're headed in the "loosening" direction, not tightening up. Has any state passed stricter gun laws any time recently?

That's what the conversation is about. There is nothing "feel good" about it and there is plenty to discuss. You tried to change the topic to an absurd comparison between violent crimes rates in one city, DC, v. an entire state. Have you ever visited our nation's capital? It's one of the most affluent parts of the country and is often considered one of the best cities in which to live. Crime is significantly less than it used to be, but still a problem only in certain parts of the city.
Try looking at crime in say Richmond, Virginia. In the mid 2000's Richmond was ranked one the top 10 most violent cities in the nation. They still rank in the top 50 most violent.
You can't look at cities or populations in a vacuum and draw conclusions about crime. Guns moving between states is very fluid. It's like one city having strict pollution control but it's neighbor puts all the crap in the air and water. It's gonna flow to the neighbor and there's little you can do about it.

Well there is something we could do about all this, but we lack the will as a nation. At least so far.

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Lemon Drop
32 other states that what? Have loose gun laws?...It's gonna flow to the neighbor and there's little you can do about it...

THAT was my point - there are 33 States (including Virginia) that allow private-party firearms sales without the seller having to do a background check on the buyer. Delaware (a bit closer to new York than Virginia) is one of them - yet in all the articles I've seen (regarding firearms ending up in New York), the focus is always on Virginia, and never addresses what the comparative crime rates are between those different States.

The other factor important part of the problem (in my opinion) are the criminals themselves - WHY are the populations in certain areas of the country more prone to crime (usually urban areas) than others? There clearly is something different about them - I think part of the solution should include addressing those differences, whatever they may be; everything else seems like just treating the symptoms and not the root cause...

Now you're resorting to selective editing to try and make a point? Of something I wrote myself. Geez. Anyway.

Poverty and crime are closely associated. I think we all know that. You'd be wrong to suggest that American crime is worse in urban areas in general, it is not. Plenty of small/medium cities, especially in the south, how very high violent crime rates.
Violent crime in our nation decreased as prosperity grew. However, crimes involving large caliber assault weapons are steadily increasing. Access is a part of that, and it's something that could be controlled. We lack the will.


And BTW, the reason there is so much focus on Virginia is because ATF and FBI can track where guns are purchased, therefore they know where guns used in crimes are purchased. It's not just random picking on Virginia.

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Lemon Drop
Now you're resorting to selective editing to try and make a point? Of something I wrote myself. Geez. Anyway.

Poverty and crime are closely associated. I think we all know that. You'd be wrong to suggest that American crime is worse in urban areas in general, it is not. Plenty of small/medium cities, especially in the south, how very high violent crime rates.
Violent crime in our nation decreased as prosperity grew. However, crimes involving large caliber assault weapons are steadily increasing. Access is a part of that, and it's something that could be controlled. We lack the will.


And BTW, the reason there is so much focus on Virginia is because ATF and FBI can track where guns are purchased, therefore they know where guns used in crimes are purchased. It's not just random picking on Virginia.

I think you'll find that we are in violent agreement on this issue, but my curiosity runs deeper - at its heart, I think people and their behavior are at the root of what should be examined (and changed).

For instance - why is Virginia the source, and not Delaware?
If I were of a mind to supply firearms to criminals, I would choose to be closer (and more convenient) to my customers.

Changing to your other topic, as I've stated many times in other threads, I don't think a new "Assault Weapons" type ban will happen anytime soon - the original authors overreached (they should have concentrated solely on magazine capacity and nothing else, IMHO), and because of that any consideration for new restrictions probably won't happen for a generation, if ever. Both political parties are guilty of this (overreaching and assuming they have a mandate to implement their wildest dreams after winning an election) - they would do well to remember that this country is nearly evenly divided, and purposely p*ssing off half the electorate can not lead to anything good...