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Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 17, 2017 09:47AM
Few details known, but from those that are, this may end up being a tipping point of sorts.

Beginning with the victim:


Notice anything different about this victim?

Quote

A 40-year-old woman who family members said called 911 to report a possible assault in the alley behind her home Saturday night was fatally shot by a Minneapolis police officer.

Three sources with knowledge of the incident said Sunday that two officers in one squad car, responding to the 911 call, pulled into the alley. Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driver’s side door, sources said. No weapon was found at the scene.

Minneapolis police are equipped with body cams, but neither were on during the event, and the squad car dash cam "did not capture the event"

Quote

The woman was identified by family in local and Australian news reports as 40-year-old Justine Damond (nee Justine Ruszczyk), a native Australian who studied to be a veterinarian in Sydney before moving to Minneapolis to be with her fiance, Don Damond. The couple planned to marry next month, but Justine Damond had already taken her fiance’s last name.

Justine Damond attended high school in Australia and graduated from the University of Sydney with a bachelor’s of veterinary science degree in 2002, according to the ABC. Her personal and business website says she was a qualified yoga instructor, meditation teacher and a personal health and life coach. The website says Damond’s “interest in supporting people to heal and transform themselves developed after she saw family members suffer greatly from depression, alcoholism and cancer.”

Alisa Monaghan, [a] friend, said Damond moved to the United States to “follow her heart” and to find “new life,” the ABC reported. [Another friend] said there’s no way Damond would have had a gun. She often talked about how much better it was in Australia, where people aren’t allowed to have guns.

In a video posted to the Women’s March Minnesota Facebook page, Zach Damond, Justine Damond’s stepson-to-be, said: “Basically, my mom’s dead because a police officer shot her for reasons I don’t know. I demand answers. If anybody can help, just call the police and demand answers. I’m so done with all this violence.”

He added: “America sucks. These cops need to get trained differently. I need to move out of here.”

This makes me sick to my stomach. We have to find a better way.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 10:16AM
I guess this whole "get rid of foreigners at all cost" policy is coming down the pike a bit faster than anticipated.

In the interim, while we mourn the death of a pretty white lady, the current administration is working to allow DACA to be defeated in court (by not defending the policy) when a cadre of America's Most Racist States sues to end it. Also, they are plotting to revise ICE/CBP regulations to allow deportatio WITHOUT A HEARING of anyone who cannot DOCUMENT that they have been in the country for at least 90 days. Yeah. Due process. Mmhmm.

Here's hoping they all get justice. I expect we'll hear a lot more about the outcomes for Justine's case than we will for the hundreds of thousands of people targeted by ICE.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 10:28AM
Quote
pdq
Few details known, but from those that are, this may end up being a tipping point of sorts.

P.S. If you think this crime is somehow going to have any effect on the crisis of people of color being abused, maimed, and killed by police officers, you need a reality check.

Edit: If people learn any single lesson from this event, I hope it's to remember that when something potentially risky or dangerous is happening, it's worth asking yourself:

Is it really the wisest option to summon a class of domestic enforcers authorized to kill with relative impunity and legal immunity, who just might be a little trigger-happy and/or paranoid?

Or, would it be better to try to de-escalate, avoid, or resolve the matter without the 'assistance' of such people?




rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 10:35AM by rjmacs.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 17, 2017 10:36AM
I read the article in the Star Trib about this and it makes zero sense - she's talking to the cop from outside the driver side window after walking 100 yards in her pjs to talk to them and his partner in the passenger seat shoots her through the driver side window?

OK good thing he didn't also hit his partner; that seems like a completely crazy assed thing to do.

and no bodycams on, though they are required by law in Minn.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 10:39AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
OK good thing he didn't also hit his partner; that seems like a completely crazy assed thing to do.

and no bodycams on, though they are required by law in Minn.

Bodycams are often not activated until the officer prepares to leave the vehicle. Not defending their behavior, but I don't know what their protocol is.

At least if he'd shot his partner, he'd be a little more likely to lose his job.... Nobody wants to work with someone who kills co-workers, even by accident.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Ammo
Date: July 17, 2017 11:10AM
Ironically, with the memory of the aquital of the officer who killed Philando Castile so fresh, the mood of Minneapolis's AA community (and those who support them) will be very ugly if the officer involved here IS found guilty (justice for white women, but not black men).



"When the tree falls, the monkeys scatter." Chinese proverb.

Always remember that your present situation is not your final destination.

"The opposite for courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow." Jim Hightower
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 17, 2017 11:54AM
Quote
Ammo
Ironically, with the memory of the aquital of the officer who killed Philando Castile so fresh, the mood of Minneapolis's AA community (and those who support them) will be very ugly if the officer involved here IS found guilty (justice for white women, but not black men).

the officer in this case is black, and Muslim. He's the first Somali-American officer in this department

The Minneapolis police officer who shot and killed a 40-year-old woman in the alley behind her home Saturday night has been identified as Mohamed Noor.

A source confirmed Noor as the shooter. Attorney Tom Plunkett is representing the officer, but declined to identify him.

According to a city newsletter, Noor joined the department in March 2015 as the first Somali police officer to patrol the 5th Precinct in southwest Minneapolis. He has a degree in Economics and Business Administration from Augsburg College. Before joining the department he worked in property management in commercial and residential properties in Minneapolis and St. Louis, Mo.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 11:58AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 12:39PM
Quote
Ammo
Ironically, with the memory of the aquital of the officer who killed Philando Castile so fresh, the mood of Minneapolis's AA community (and those who support them) will be very ugly if the officer involved here IS found guilty (justice for white women, but not black men).

Let their racism shine.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 17, 2017 12:39PM
Whatever happened to "Minnesota Nice"?
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 12:42PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Ammo
Ironically, with the memory of the aquital of the officer who killed Philando Castile so fresh, the mood of Minneapolis's AA community (and those who support them) will be very ugly if the officer involved here IS found guilty (justice for white women, but not black men).

the officer in this case is black, and Muslim. He's the first Somali-American officer in this department

The Minneapolis police officer who shot and killed a 40-year-old woman in the alley behind her home Saturday night has been identified as Mohamed Noor.

A source confirmed Noor as the shooter. Attorney Tom Plunkett is representing the officer, but declined to identify him.

According to a city newsletter, Noor joined the department in March 2015 as the first Somali police officer to patrol the 5th Precinct in southwest Minneapolis. He has a degree in Economics and Business Administration from Augsburg College. Before joining the department he worked in property management in commercial and residential properties in Minneapolis and St. Louis, Mo.

Countdown to right-wing murmurs, then tweets, then screaming dittoheads calling this the newest form of 'stealth radical Islamist terrorism': 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 17, 2017 01:23PM
The American Civil Liberties Union on Monday called for penalties against the officer who shot and killed a woman late Saturday night, saying at the very least that his failure to activate his body camera makes “the truth so much harder to find.”
well that didn't take long...


"ACLU Interim Executive Director Teresa Nelson said the department’s body camera policy should include consequences for officers who fail to activate them.

The Minneapolis police officer who shot Justine Damond late Saturday night did not turn on his body camera, according to the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. That’s an apparent violation of rules spelled out in the Minneapolis Police Department’s Policy and Procedure manual.

The manual says any use of force requires the activation of the camera. The cameras, when operated as instructed, run continuously so that when an officer activates the recording function, it can keep audio and video of whatever happened in the moments before the officer hit record."
[www.startribune.com]
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Ammo
Date: July 17, 2017 02:18PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Ammo
Ironically, with the memory of the aquital of the officer who killed Philando Castile so fresh, the mood of Minneapolis's AA community (and those who support them) will be very ugly if the officer involved here IS found guilty (justice for white women, but not black men).

the officer in this case is black, and Muslim. He's the first Somali-American officer in this department

The Minneapolis police officer who shot and killed a 40-year-old woman in the alley behind her home Saturday night has been identified as Mohamed Noor.

A source confirmed Noor as the shooter. Attorney Tom Plunkett is representing the officer, but declined to identify him.

According to a city newsletter, Noor joined the department in March 2015 as the first Somali police officer to patrol the 5th Precinct in southwest Minneapolis. He has a degree in Economics and Business Administration from Augsburg College. Before joining the department he worked in property management in commercial and residential properties in Minneapolis and St. Louis, Mo.

What is going to count in many people's minds is whether an officer who kills a white person is aquited the same as one who kills a black person. There are a lot of competing social/political dynamics to this case. Of course, the most important thing is that someone was killed at all in these types of circumstances.



"When the tree falls, the monkeys scatter." Chinese proverb.

Always remember that your present situation is not your final destination.

"The opposite for courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow." Jim Hightower
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 17, 2017 02:33PM
Quote
bfd
Whatever happened to "Minnesota Nice"?

Folks in Minnesota are relatively nice, but I recently read that that's not how the term originated. This guy's claim (which I don't have the background to doubt or confirm) was that while blacks in Minnesota didn't face overt racism like elsewhere back in the day, they also weren't fully accepted. People would treat you "nice", but not any better than that - they were inclined to keep you at arm's length.

Being from this area, there is some grain of truth to this. It's not racism so much, but folks are a little introverted and clique-ish; "inbred", perhaps (figuratively speaking!). It's said to be difficult to get people to consider moving to this area if you're not from here (due to the weather), and yet if you're from this area, it is difficult to get you to consider moving away (!).

Anyway, I think this has been ameliorated by immigration, which has been a relative success story here. Hmong (Laotian mountain people), Karen (ethnic minority in Burma), other SE Asians, Tibetans, Liberians and now East Africans, in addition to Latinos and South Asians. It is the deepest irony that the shooter in this case is a Somalian refugee.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 17, 2017 02:51PM
Quote
Ammo

What is going to count in many people's minds is whether an officer who kills a white person is aquited the same as one who kills a black person. There are a lot of competing social/political dynamics to this case. Of course, the most important thing is that someone was killed at all in these types of circumstances.

The cops kill about 500 white people each year, and those killings pretty much never result in homicide charges, much less successful prosecution. Of course the rest of the killings, of non-whites, also don't result in successful prosecution. Before Black Lives Matter and the Obama DOJ we were barely even counting (in fact the FBI was not counting...) these deaths much less doing much to hold police accountable. While acknowledging that sometimes the police need to use force, there is no question that our highly militarized, aggressive force crosses the line too often. And disproportionately so when people of color are involved.
So while I wouldn't want to speculate on what may happen in this latest shooting in MN, the fact that it gets such high level attention at all is at least progress.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 17, 2017 03:24PM
Lemon, a good point. And the fact that it's pretty damn easy for a police officer to commit cold blooded murder and get away with it is the really damnable issue in this nation. Regardless of melanin levels in officer and victim, the death of a person at the hands of police should always be properly investigated as IF it were a murder, not a 'fear based execution'.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 17, 2017 03:31PM
Not to make light of what is obviously a horrible situation, but this one caught my eye the other day for being too close to the truth:

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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Ammo
Date: July 17, 2017 04:39PM
Quote
pdq
Quote
bfd
Whatever happened to "Minnesota Nice"?

Folks in Minnesota are relatively nice, but I recently read that that's not how the term originated. This guy's claim (which I don't have the background to doubt or confirm) was that while blacks in Minnesota didn't face overt racism like elsewhere back in the day, they also weren't fully accepted. People would treat you "nice", but not any better than that - they were inclined to keep you at arm's length.

Being from this area, there is some grain of truth to this. It's not racism so much, but folks are a little introverted and clique-ish; "inbred", perhaps (figuratively speaking!). It's said to be difficult to get people to consider moving to this area if you're not from here (due to the weather), and yet if you're from this area, it is difficult to get you to consider moving away (!).

Anyway, I think this has been ameliorated by immigration, which has been a relative success story here. Hmong (Laotian mountain people), Karen (ethnic minority in Burma), other SE Asians, Tibetans, Liberians and now East Africans, in addition to Latinos and South Asians. It is the deepest irony that the shooter in this case is a Somalian refugee.

I'm also a Minnesotan, but I think many white residents remain very suspicious of AA's. I don't know, but I suspect this is true in a lot of states.



"When the tree falls, the monkeys scatter." Chinese proverb.

Always remember that your present situation is not your final destination.

"The opposite for courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow." Jim Hightower
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 17, 2017 04:52PM
Quote

"The system continues to fail black people, and it will continue to fail you all. Like I said, because this happened with Philando, when they get done with us, they coming for you, for you, for you and all your interracial children," Valerie Castile said. "Y'all are next, and you will be standing up here fighting for justice just as well as I am."
[www.usatoday.com]



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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 17, 2017 11:27PM
This could have been a hit. An astute friend made this observation today, and the more I read about it, the more bizarre this all sounds.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 18, 2017 07:24AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
This could have been a hit. An astute friend made this observation today, and the more I read about it, the more bizarre this all sounds.

At the risk of sounding harsh, that's the most foolish thing I've heard said about this incident.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 18, 2017 10:04AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
mrbigstuff
This could have been a hit. An astute friend made this observation today, and the more I read about it, the more bizarre this all sounds.

At the risk of sounding harsh, that's the most foolish thing I've heard said about this incident.


Nothing about this shooting makes sense, so his theory is as solid as your theory.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 18, 2017 10:39AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
mrbigstuff
This could have been a hit. An astute friend made this observation today, and the more I read about it, the more bizarre this all sounds.

At the risk of sounding harsh, that's the most foolish thing I've heard said about this incident.


Nothing about this shooting makes sense, so his theory is as solid as your theory.

So, there's JUST as much evidence nationwide of police-involved hits on private citizens as there is evidence that cops are trigger-happy and not infrequently kill innocent civilians through overeagerness/spastic fear/impunity?

Oh, I've missed all the stories about cops accepting contracts on civilians lately. Perhaps I'm just in an echo chamber where such news never reaches me.

facepalm nuts smiley  RollingEyesSmiley5



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 18, 2017 11:18AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
This could have been a hit. An astute friend made this observation today, and the more I read about it, the more bizarre this all sounds.

it is far fetched but I can understand why people's minds are going there, this situation really makes zero sense. I can understand how she ended up outside because if you're a woman and you think another woman is being assaulted, your instinct is to try and stop it and to help her. And this is supposedly the safest neighborhood in Minneapolis so she probably didn't think anything about going outside alone that late.

but why the cop would fire multiple shots at this unarmed woman in PJs through the car door and inches from his partner's body?? (seems to me he could have killed or injured the partner or even himself if the bullet had hit a solid part of the door and ricocheted?) that one needs an explanation and there's none so far - I'm surprised there is not at least a statement from the partner yet 3 days after the event.
He's 25 and a first year officer, neither of these guys had much experience.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 18, 2017 11:27AM
It's astonishing to me how hard this story is to believe, basically because the victim was a white woman.

Yet when unarmed innocent black people are killed without provocation by the police (often at the tail end of a profiling event), there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

It's like cops killing black civilians is just less "bizarre" and "crazy" than shooting a white lady in her PJs.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 18, 2017 12:17PM
Quote
rjmacs
It's astonishing to me how hard this story is to believe, basically because the victim was a white woman.

Yet when unarmed innocent black people are killed without provocation by the police (often at the tail end of a profiling event), there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

It's like cops killing black civilians is just less "bizarre" and "crazy" than shooting a white lady in her PJs.

there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

that is just a false statement.

I won't stand for that type of characterization of my questions about this case.

I've never heard of an officer firing across the inside of the car, across his partner and through the door to kill a person who walked up to talk about a crime. sorry but it IS BIZARRE and we have no statements from the officers except the alleged shooter won't acknowledge that he fired the shots.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 18, 2017 12:29PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs
It's astonishing to me how hard this story is to believe, basically because the victim was a white woman.

Yet when unarmed innocent black people are killed without provocation by the police (often at the tail end of a profiling event), there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

It's like cops killing black civilians is just less "bizarre" and "crazy" than shooting a white lady in her PJs.

there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

that is just a false statement.

I won't stand for that type of characterization of my questions about this case.

I've never heard of an officer firing across the inside of the car, across his partner and through the door to kill a person who walked up to talk about a crime. sorry but it IS BIZARRE and we have no statements from the officers except the alleged shooter won't acknowledge that he fired the shots.

Firing a rifle into a car full of unarmed, non-threatening teenagers speeding away from you seems "BIZARRE" to me, too.

Why is this so shocking? Why is this so hard to believe?

We give people badges and guns, tell them "if you feel the slightest threat, you are allowed to kill without any legal consequences," and them amp them up by screaming in the public square that our police are UNDER ATTACK, that our brave selfless officers are BEING TARGETED BY CRIMINALS AND TERRORISTS.

Surely it can't surprise you that when citizens get shot by cops for no reason and die stupid, pointless, horrific deaths, we seem to respond differentially depending on the color of the dead person.

I'm not aiming my characterization at you, LD, but it seems this case is more "BIZARRE" to some people because the victim is so unexpected, not because people being shot by police is so uncommon.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2017 12:33PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 18, 2017 01:48PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
This could have been a hit. An astute friend made this observation today, and the more I read about it, the more bizarre this all sounds.

Nah, Hanlon's Razor. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

astute - having or showing shrewdness and an ability to notice and understand things clearly : mentally sharp or clever
I don't think so in this instance.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 18, 2017 02:07PM
Quote

Yet when unarmed innocent black people are killed without provocation by the police (often at the tail end of a profiling event), there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

Yeah, this woman was probably just another thug. Good riddance.

Kidding, kidding. But I haven't heard about her police record yet (as we did with Castille) - I wonder why that is?
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 18, 2017 02:12PM
Quote
pdq
Quote

Yet when unarmed innocent Black people are killed without provocation by the police (often at the tail end of a profiling event), there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

Yeah, this woman was probably just another thug. Good riddance.

Kidding, kidding. But I haven't heard about her police record yet (as we did with Castille) - I wonder why that is?

Thank you!

My point above is not about the events nearly so much as it's about our reactions to the events.

People find it easier to come up with plausible explanations for an officer mistakenly, inadvertently, whoopsy-daisily killing Black people because we are acculturated to be suspicious of Black people, to think they might be up to no good, or that they are antagonistic toward police/'uppity'/noncompliant/ANGRY. It's harder for us to do that to a white lady in PJs.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 18, 2017 02:12PM
I think that people find sitting on the passenger's side unloading your weapon through the closed door on the driver's side bizarre. So they are throwing out various theories, not just the hit man one.



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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 18, 2017 02:59PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
pdq
Quote

Yet when unarmed innocent Black people are killed without provocation by the police (often at the tail end of a profiling event), there's a near total absence of this kind of disbelief.

Yeah, this woman was probably just another thug. Good riddance.

Kidding, kidding. But I haven't heard about her police record yet (as we did with Castille) - I wonder why that is?

Thank you!

My point above is not about the events nearly so much as it's about our reactions to the events.

People find it easier to come up with plausible explanations for an officer mistakenly, inadvertently, whoopsy-daisily killing Black people because we are acculturated to be suspicious of Black people, to think they might be up to no good, or that they are antagonistic toward police/'uppity'/noncompliant/ANGRY. It's harder for us to do that to a white lady in PJs.

Hmm. I call BS. I don't recall anyone here saying that the Castile murder occurred "mistakenly, inadvertently, whoopsy-daisily."

You believe that this tragedy would be more "plausible" if someone started to dig into her mental history, or criminal behavior or some such thing?
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 18, 2017 04:12PM
There have been so many long, long threads about police murdering citizens that I can't imagine why rjmacs has suddenly decided that nobody cared until a victim was white.



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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 18, 2017 04:21PM
I think rj means our society in general and not the people here at MRF.

The other element contributing to the frenzy on this one is the fact that the victim is a foreigner. And she's from a country that has very strict gun laws and where the cops pretty much never kill anyone, so her native land is expressing a great deal of outrage and confusion over this.
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Re: Another (!) Minneapolis police shooting
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 18, 2017 04:49PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
The other element contributing to the frenzy on this one is the fact that the victim is a foreigner. And she's from a country that has very strict gun laws and where the cops pretty much never kill anyone, so her native land is expressing a great deal of outrage and confusion over this.

Indeed. And they might have a very good reason for asking "Why do Americans put up with this ridiculous environment they've put themselves in?'
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