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Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Ammo
Date: September 21, 2017 10:28PM
Stupid socialists. Comes to almost $200,000 per person (after free health and education). At the same time here in the U.S., our government is doing everything it can to reduce it's commitment to citizens, especially to those who can least afford it.

[money.cnn.com]



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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 21, 2017 10:38PM
....Norway.....??

......NO......Way.......



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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 21, 2017 11:01PM
That's a lot of oil! It also helps that you generate lots of renewables and give away a lot of that to run battery powered vehicles tax-free.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: gabester
Date: September 22, 2017 02:13AM
Someone else beat me to the math... all I can think is how nice it would be to live somewhere there's a natural wealth that is shared broadly amongst the people who inhabit a land of such wealth.

Let me get back to trying to squeeze gold from stones.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: max
Date: September 22, 2017 03:00AM
Quote
Ammo
Stupid socialists. Comes to almost $200,000 per person (after free health and education).

You are right, Ammo, the "stupid socialists" would have not let it happen.

The reason these guys are worth so much is because "stupid Socialists" lost the 1997 election and the Norwegian government shifted to the right.

The reason these guys are worth so much is because in 1998, the now centrist government excluded Socialists and allowed investments up to 40% (later raised to 70%) in the global stock markets.

The reason these guys are worth so much is because the epitome of capitalism, its very engine, the stock market, is what grew the fund at 5% year since their decision to invest.

The reason these guys are worth so much is because "stupid Socialists" had been sidelined and had nothing to do with it, showing them to be, indeed, stupid.....
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 22, 2017 07:09AM
When I was in Norway I asked what their taxes were and it was something like 43%. They get eveerything free BUT you must remember the population is only about 4M so easier to govern.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Acer
Date: September 22, 2017 07:31AM
"The fund has generated an annual return of 5.9 % since January 1998, a figure that is reduced to 4% when management costs and inflation are included."

That's nice, but well off the "10-12%" figures usually touted by market hawks.

At 4% a year, it would take 72/4=18 years to double an initial investment.
So, very generally speaking, about half of that trillion is principal, or in this case, profits from state-owned oil revenues and taxes.

And, all investment choices are made by the state.

There's some capitalism there, for sure, but that is NOT the product American capitalists are trying to sell us.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: September 22, 2017 07:42AM
Quote
Ammo
Stupid socialists. Comes to almost $200,000 per person (after free health and education).

The stupid socialists built up the wealth. Now the right has come to power on the issue of (what else?) immigration & tax cuts. Sounds familiar, right?

I'm sure they'll put that money where it belongs...in the hands of the already wealthy.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 22, 2017 08:11AM
Quote
Speedy
That's a lot of oil! It also helps that you generate lots of renewables and give away a lot of that to run battery powered vehicles tax-free.

We have a lot of oil, too, but no sovereign wealth fund.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: September 22, 2017 08:14AM
Quote
pdq
We have a lot of oil, too, but no sovereign wealth fund.

We do have a bootstrap fund, though.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 22, 2017 08:33AM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
pdq
We have a lot of oil, too, but no sovereign wealth fund.

We do have a bootstrap fund, though.

You can tap into that AFTER you pay off your college 'loans.'
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 22, 2017 08:34AM
Norway and me have lost huge $$$in the sovereign fund with an off shore driller. Don't know if it will ever come back.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: billb
Date: September 22, 2017 09:20AM
Quote
samintx
When I was in Norway I asked what their taxes were and it was something like 43%. They get everything free BUT you must remember the population is only about 4M so easier to govern.

Did you go into a grocery store and see what they pay for food ? Did you visit any farms and listen to the owners that are still farming lamenting cheap produce being imported ( like Venezuela ) and putting them out of business ? It shouldn't be surprising why cheap frozen pizza is so popular.
Did you buy any products and pay the 25% VAT ? Did you look at what they pay for a car (if they can afford one ) ?
Did you ask how many of their smart relatives have fled the country to work and put some money away ? Did you ask any of those relatives that left if they would go back if it weren't for the North Sea oil money that is funding their retirement program ?


edit:tags
Norway being some kind of socialist paradise is a fairy tale myth progressives who have never been there need to believe in. It doesn't matter if there are any facts to support the myth or not.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2017 09:24AM by billb.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 22, 2017 10:13AM
I wasn't saying Norway was paradise. If you interpreted my post that way …sorry. Just relating what I knew…from being there. Yes I paid the 25% vat tax and found it strange 99% of the fast food places -- Subway(on every corner). Thought this strange but with your comments it might be Subway sandwiches may be cheaper than a Big Mac etc fast food.

I don't want to live in Norway or think it is a haven.(I don't eat Subwayssmiley-excited001)
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: September 22, 2017 11:00AM
.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2017 11:01AM by Lux Interior.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Ammo
Date: September 22, 2017 11:17AM
Quote
billb
Quote
samintx
When I was in Norway I asked what their taxes were and it was something like 43%. They get everything free BUT you must remember the population is only about 4M so easier to govern.

Did you go into a grocery store and see what they pay for food ? Did you visit any farms and listen to the owners that are still farming lamenting cheap produce being imported ( like Venezuela ) and putting them out of business ? It shouldn't be surprising why cheap frozen pizza is so popular.
Did you buy any products and pay the 25% VAT ? Did you look at what they pay for a car (if they can afford one ) ?
Did you ask how many of their smart relatives have fled the country to work and put some money away ? Did you ask any of those relatives that left if they would go back if it weren't for the North Sea oil money that is funding their retirement program ?


edit:tags
Norway being some kind of socialist paradise is a fairy tale myth progressives who have never been there need to believe in. It doesn't matter if there are any facts to support the myth or not.

I've been there and to me, it looks like a very nice place to live. How many people here would trade places to live there if they could? A whole lot. And as pointed out above, the U.S. has natural resources that dwarf North Sea oil. The difference is how the government decides to allocate those resources.



Inside every old person is a young person saying "what happened?"

“Love is the motive, but justice is the instrument.” - Reinhold Niebuhr

“The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.” George Orwell
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 22, 2017 01:32PM
Los Angeles County has about the same population as Norway. Norway is mostly one kind of people. Mostly. They don't have a segment voting to spite another segment based solely on their race like we do.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 22, 2017 08:45PM
Quote
vision63
Los Angeles County has about the same population as Norway. Norway is mostly one kind of people. Mostly. They don't have a segment voting to spite another segment based solely on their race like we do.

Clearly you have never been there or you would know how they treat ethnic Swedes.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 22, 2017 09:35PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
vision63
Los Angeles County has about the same population as Norway. Norway is mostly one kind of people. Mostly. They don't have a segment voting to spite another segment based solely on their race like we do.

Clearly you have never been there or you would know how they treat ethnic Swedes.

I have never been there I have watched the Vikings play. I did make one mistake. LA County has nearly twice Norway's population. How many ethnic Swedes we talking about? My main point is that Norway's solution isn't really relatable to any aspect of what we have to deal with.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: max
Date: September 22, 2017 10:55PM
Quote
Acer
And, all investment choices are made by the state.
Wrong again, the "fund is managed by Norges Bank Investment Management (NBIM)" a set up analogous to our CALPERS. Your state, the politicians, do not pick the investments the fund puts its money in, however they do limit the areas the fund is not allowed to tread.
And you cannot get more capitalistic than the Swiss gnomes being the financial guides for the fund's investments...
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: Acer
Date: September 23, 2017 09:17PM
So it is possible for a government handle money responsibly, in this case, letting experienced investment firms handle the accounts. Happy to hear that. From here, it looks better than selling the pension fund "special" government treasury instruments like we did with Social Security.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2017 09:18PM by Acer.
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Re: Norway's [public] pension fund is now worth over $1 trillion
Posted by: max
Date: September 24, 2017 04:59PM
Quote
Acer
So it is possible for a government handle money responsibly, in this case, letting experienced investment firms handle the accounts. Happy to hear that. From here, it looks better than selling the pension fund "special" government treasury instruments like we did with Social Security.
I am surprised you would be supporting Bush's idea of investing even a smaller portion of Social Security than Norway did.
Oh wait, our Socialist Democratic party (which calls itself The Democratic Party) did not allow it either....
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