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Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 05, 2017 06:50PM
I see headlines from the Washington Post and ABC and others with Trump 'declaring' Jerusalem the capital of Israel. The proper term is probably 'recognizing Jerusalem' which has been Israel's functioning capital since 1948.

The Russians can say they only recognize Omaha as America's capital and that's where they are putting their embassy. That has no basis in reality.
On the other hand, the U.S. Congress passed (and Bill Clinton signed) a law saying the U.S. Embassy should be moved to Jerusalem in 1995 (that's 22 years ago). The fact, that trump is involved in this is a shame. Maybe Clinton, Bush and Obama should have relieved him of the responsibility any time in the past 2 decades?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 06:50PM by Steve G..
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: JoeH
Date: December 05, 2017 07:29PM
It may have been declared that years ago, but it is not internationally recognized as such.

As for the bill passed 20+ years ago, Bill Clinton did not sign it as you claim. He just let it pass into law without a signature as the vote was large enough in favor that a veto override would have passed.

Quote
Steve G.
On the other hand, the U.S. Congress passed (and Bill Clinton signed) a law saying the U.S. Embassy should be moved to Jerusalem in 1995 (that's 22 years ago).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 07:30PM by JoeH.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 05, 2017 07:31PM
Quote
Steve G.
The Russians can say they only recognize Omaha as America's capital and that's where they are putting their embassy. That has no basis in reality.
On the other hand, the U.S. Congress passed (and Bill Clinton signed) a law saying the U.S. Embassy should be moved to Jerusalem in 1995 (that's 22 years ago). The fact, that trump is involved in this is a shame. Maybe Clinton, Bush and Obama should have relieved him of the responsibility any time in the past 2 decades?

Maybe only an imbecile would act on that law in this day and age.

...Also, that law was probably unconstitutional and even if an ultra-right-wing-religious-nutjob SCOTUS decided to uphold it, the law effectively expired after 1999.

And Israel can go ahead and declare anywhere -- Butte Montana for example -- as its capital, but without the support of the U.S., fat lot of good it does them.

Trump's fetching for a war and you're cheering him.

It takes a special kind of person to be gleeful at the scent of death.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 07:33PM by Onamuji.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 05, 2017 08:11PM
I was expecting you with your anti-Israel fictions.

The law not only remains in effect, but Trump missed the December 1 waiver date. He is doing something-or-other on Wednesday to bring him into compliance. (In simpler words. You are lying. The law remains and did not expire.)

As I indicated, I am not cheering Trump on. (another falsehood) Clinton, Bush and Obama should have followed the dictates of Congress.

The only people threatening death here are the Palestinians and their Arab friends. (perhaps you should consider your own support for their violence blackmail). Consider that the next time your beloved righteous heroes drive into a crowd of Jews at a bus stop.

It is not up to the U.S. to decide where Israel's capital is...it's up to Israel. The Israeli government, executive office and legislature have been situated in Jerusalem since May 1948.
Your support for forces who want to kill all the Jews in Israel will not prevent this country, the only functioning democracy in the Middle East from surviving.

-
If you don't like Netanyahu (and I certainly don't) may I refer you this assessment about a previous two state agreement in 2000 worked out by Labor Prime Minister Ehud Barak, Yasser Arafat and President Clinton.

"Most of the Israeli and American criticism for the failure of the 2000 Camp David Summit was leveled at Yasser Arafat. Ehud Barak portrays Arafat’s behavior at Camp David as a “performance geared to exact as many Israeli concessions as possible without ever seriously intending to reach a peace settlement or sign an “end to the conflict.

Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace." "

You never fail me, Onamuji. Despite Trump, despite, Netanyahu, despite the hate-filled Arab street, Israel will continue to make its way among through history. (Say, how come you never have anything to say about the 500,000 stinking corpses polluting the ruins and waterways of Syria?...For example)


Hurry, the Palestinian peace march is starting!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 08:13PM by Steve G..
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Ted King
Date: December 05, 2017 08:14PM
This has a 90%+ chance of turning out badly. What is the strategic rationale for this (in terms of US strategic interests)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 08:15PM by Ted King.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 05, 2017 08:27PM
Quote
Ted King
This has a 90%+ chance of turning out badly. What is the strategic rationale for this (in terms of US strategic interests)?

I have no idea. It's Trump. His gang think the only way for Palestinians to finally negotiate is to undercut their situation. I'm no expert, but I don't think it's the most productive approach.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 05, 2017 10:17PM
It was originally Congressional grandstanding and symbolic support for Isreal's position. I credit all the past presidents for not stirring the hornets nest(s).

Anything unstable, be it the Middle East, Korea, or Utah works to 45's advantage. The man will have his war, somewhere. Bigly. Nothing he does unites. Let's not have him act, here.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 05, 2017 10:32PM
I've gotten to the point where I wouldn't be one bit surprised if all of Trump's foreign policy choices were made in an effort to find the sweet spot that will result in a terror attack on US soil. You know he's just aching to double down on all the Homeland Security @#$%&, probably accompanied with fever dreams of taking over the media and castrating Congress.



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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: December 06, 2017 04:41AM
Trump creates issues where none actively existed just so he can take credit for something.

People will die because of this decision, how many and where isn't known yet, but it will happen. And when it does, they can thank Trump's ego.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 06, 2017 06:29AM
Quote
Steve G.
I was expecting you with your anti-Israel fictions.

The law not only remains in effect, but Trump missed the December 1 waiver date. He is doing something-or-other on Wednesday to bring him into compliance. (In simpler words. You are lying. The law remains and did not expire.)

As I indicated, I am not cheering Trump on. (another falsehood) Clinton, Bush and Obama should have followed the dictates of Congress.

The only people threatening death here are the Palestinians and their Arab friends. (perhaps you should consider your own support for their violence blackmail). Consider that the next time your beloved righteous heroes drive into a crowd of Jews at a bus stop.

It is not up to the U.S. to decide where Israel's capital is...it's up to Israel. The Israeli government, executive office and legislature have been situated in Jerusalem since May 1948.
Your support for forces who want to kill all the Jews in Israel will not prevent this country, the only functioning democracy in the Middle East from surviving.

-
If you don't like Netanyahu (and I certainly don't) may I refer you this assessment about a previous two state agreement in 2000 worked out by Labor Prime Minister Ehud Barak, Yasser Arafat and President Clinton.

"Most of the Israeli and American criticism for the failure of the 2000 Camp David Summit was leveled at Yasser Arafat. Ehud Barak portrays Arafat’s behavior at Camp David as a “performance geared to exact as many Israeli concessions as possible without ever seriously intending to reach a peace settlement or sign an “end to the conflict.

Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace." "

You never fail me, Onamuji. Despite Trump, despite, Netanyahu, despite the hate-filled Arab street, Israel will continue to make its way among through history. (Say, how come you never have anything to say about the 500,000 stinking corpses polluting the ruins and waterways of Syria?...For example)


Hurry, the Palestinian peace march is starting!

Do you ever read your own posts out loud and wonder at how crazy you sound?



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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 07:46AM
Quote
Onamuji
Do you ever read your own posts out loud and wonder at how crazy you sound?
Is that your best reply, A personal attack?

The fact is that Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since 1948 and your continuing efforts to try to delegitimize Israel as a nation are scurrilous. What other country do you not recognize their capital out of 195 around the world?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2017 07:46AM by Steve G..
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 06, 2017 07:47AM
Quote
Steve G.
Quote
Onamuji
Do you ever read your own posts out loud and wonder at how crazy you sound?
Is that your best reply, A personal attack?

The fact is that Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since 1948 and your continuing efforts to try to delegitimize Israel as a nation are scurrilous. What other country do you not recognize their capital out of 195 around the world?

Palestine.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 07:50AM
Quote
$tevie
I've gotten to the point where I wouldn't be one bit surprised if all of Trump's foreign policy choices were made in an effort to find the sweet spot that will result in a terror attack on US soil. You know he's just aching to double down on all the Homeland Security @#$%&, probably accompanied with fever dreams of taking over the media and castrating Congress.

I agree. I wouldn't put anything past him.
And don't forget, he's looking to divert attention from giving Syria to Putin and selling out the Kurds.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 06, 2017 08:09AM
Quote
Ombligo
Trump creates issues where none actively existed just so he can take credit for something.

People will die because of this decision, how many and where isn't known yet, but it will happen. And when it does, they can thank Trump's ego.

Pretty good way of stating it.

I'm going to put this in the bucket of "Very little to win, a lot to lose"



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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 06, 2017 08:47AM
Quote
$tevie
I've gotten to the point where I wouldn't be one bit surprised if all of Trump's foreign policy choices were made in an effort to find the sweet spot that will result in a terror attack on US soil. You know he's just aching to double down on all the Homeland Security @#$%&, probably accompanied with fever dreams of taking over the media and castrating Congress.

That's giving him a lot of credit. The people who surround him certainly want what you state, but 45 can't possibly comprehend the intricacies of foreign policy, except to grasp keeping factions at each other's throats.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 09:19AM
Today's posed propaganda shot from Reuters and The Guardian


Gaza City, Gaza Strip-A Palestinian refugee waits to receive food supplies from a United Nations distribution centre in al-Shati refugee camp

Somewhat at odds with the genocidal death chants actually taking place.
In the Palestinian coastal enclave of Gaza, demonstrators chanted “Death to America”, “Death to Israel” and “Down with Trump”. They also burned posters depicting the U.S., British and Israeli flags.
-source:Reuters

One Palestinian envoy said the decision was a declaration of war in the Middle East.
--
Iran has long supported a number of Palestinian militant groups opposed to Israel. Islamist militant groups such as al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah have in the past tried to exploit Muslim sensitivities over Jerusalem to stoke anti-Israel and anti-U.S. sentiment.
=Reuters [www.reuters.com]
(Not exactly the poor old ladies)
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: December 06, 2017 09:56AM
So... exactly WHERE in Jerusalem is a Trump property that will become the embassy ?

Follow the cash. Donnie does not give a hoot about international affairs, unless they involve finding the next Mrs. Trump.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Janit
Date: December 06, 2017 10:40AM
Quote
cbelt3
So... exactly WHERE in Jerusalem is a Trump property that will become the embassy ?

Follow the cash. Donnie does not give a hoot about international affairs, unless they involve finding the next Mrs. Trump.

More likely he will be redeveloping the US embassy in Tel Aviv as a Trump property. There's a lot more money in Tel Aviv than in Jerusalem.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 11:41AM
When British rule ended in 1948, Jordanian forces occupied the Old City and Arab East Jerusalem.
One of the armies which invaded, failed to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 06, 2017 11:59AM
Steve G. - your support for the U.S. administration is disappointing.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 12:06PM
What effect will this have?
Very little.
"Netanyahu’s office and official residence are in Jerusalem, as are the country’s parliament, Supreme Court and Foreign Ministry. Visiting world leaders immediately travel to Jerusalem for meetings with Israeli officials."
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 12:09PM
Quote
rjmacs
Steve G. - your support for the U.S. administration is disappointing.

I'm supporting Israel. If Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr or Obama had recognized the fact of where Israel's capital is, I'd say that's a rational decision. (Too bad they left it to a madman to do it.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2017 12:12PM by Steve G..
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 06, 2017 12:34PM
Quote
Steve G.
I'm supporting Israel. ...

We humbly ask that you not do that at the United States' expense, is what he's saying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2017 12:35PM by deckeda.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 12:39PM
Quote
deckeda
Quote

="Steve G."]
I'm supporting Israel. ...

We humbly ask that you not do that at the United States' expense, is what he's saying.

You are being blackmailed by threats of violence? Then shame on you for not supporting our ally and the only regional democracy.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 06, 2017 01:10PM
It's a luxury to have such clear cut ideas. So, congrats on that.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 01:30PM
Six months ago. 90-0 votes. I'm sure this means nothing to you.

June 5, 2017
The Senate on Monday passed a resolution calling on President Trump to "abide by" provision of a 1995 law moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The provision was passed as part of a measure commemorating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem, which followed the Six Day War in 1967.
The Senate passed it in a 90-0 vote.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 06, 2017 02:03PM
Watch your tone.

Your beef is with Congress providing the never-ending waiver, not with me. Each President has "failed" to move the embassy for good and obvious reasons. There's your 100% bipartisan support.

But hey, have 45 break the mold, and the peace along with it. It'll be just great, symbolically.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 02:11PM
The Senate said 90-0 to 'move it' as recently as six months ago. Plus, as the topic reads, Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since 1948. That'll be 70 years in May.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 06, 2017 02:27PM
I already knew what the capital of Israel is, thanks.

The law, and it's betrayal, is as old as 1995. That creates clear and unavoidable precedent unrelated to happenstance or other unexplainables.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: samintx
Date: December 06, 2017 03:23PM
I am afraid 45 will get us in somekind of war so he can stay in office. Bad on two counts.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 06, 2017 04:48PM
There are good and bad reasons for moving the embassy. Trump says he wants to try something new for the peace process and that this isn't about taking sides.

Based on initial reactions heard on the radio, from those who live there, Jews are mostly non-plussed unless you're the Mayor. Palestinians, not so much. And that's being kind.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 04:56PM
Quote
deckeda
Trump says he wants to try something new for the peace process and that this isn't about taking sides.

For anybody who believes that, I've got a nice condo at a Trump resort I'd like to interest them in.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 06, 2017 05:21PM
Most of us here do not believe what he said, which is why we don't support it. smiling smiley
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 05:52PM
As I said, every president from Truman to Obama should have done this.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 06, 2017 05:54PM
Here's what the leader of the Labor Party, which is the Israeli opposition to Netanyahu says:
from Politico=> [www.politico.com]
Avi Gabay, the current leader of the Israel Labor Party, told the Jerusalem Post Diplomatic Conference Wednesday that he was supportive of Trump’s decision, arguing that it could bring renewed energy to the diplomatic process, including the restart of peace talks. Gabay is supportive of a two-state solution.
“Jerusalem should be united under our sovereignty and that unites us all. I hope that along with recognition the American administration will take steps in the Middle East to restart the peace process,” Gabay said. “It can happen, we should see it as something that can inspire negotiations.”


In other words, even the Jewish Israelis who despise the Netanyahu coalition and want a two-state solution agree this should have been done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2017 05:56PM by Steve G..
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 06, 2017 06:32PM
I was never under the impression that anyone in Israel opposed this.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: December 06, 2017 07:26PM
I thought Jerusalem was moved to England's green and pleasant land?
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: max
Date: December 06, 2017 09:48PM
Quote
deckeda
I already knew what the capital of Israel is, thanks.

The law, and it's betrayal, is as old as 1995..

1995, Clinton betrays SteveG, again, then Bush, then his idol. Obama "fools" SteveG (his own words) again and again,

It is so sweetly ironic how SteveG is repeatedly "fooled" and betrayed by his political choices yet he .still doggedly (unable to admit making wrong decisions, again and again) defends staunchly no matter how many times they sell him down the river.

It is hilarious to watch the St. Vitus dance of SteveG, twisting and whirling in the wind, trying to deny that it was Trump that delivered his holy of holies.....

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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 07, 2017 09:10AM
Today's Guardian's propaganda pic - "Pathetic old Palestinian man pleads with Nazi-Jew Israeli oppressor."(note the prayer beads)

meanwhile the BBC pushes stories of (hoped for) 'clashes', quoting terror group Hamas. [www.bbc.com]

A brief reminder that Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since 1948.
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 07, 2017 10:26AM
Reuters Propaganda shots Thursday. Congratulations, you've been duped!


The Good Guys light 'flags of evil' in staged camera event

The perfect Reuters shot

Wall of Eternal Muslim Holy City of Jerusalem-check
Overweight Jew freak (typical of all Jews worldwide, especially Israelis) - check
Symbols of Hated enemies of noble Muslim peoples defiling walls of Occupied Palestina.-check


NEXT: more pictures of heroic youth fighting Nazi Jews to follow...
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 07, 2017 10:31AM
Whoops. Here's the Reuters propaganda shot...right on schedule

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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 08, 2017 10:09PM
Friday Reuters propaganda shot


Heroic Palestinian youth

Real story: Told by their 'leaders', Palestinian victims try to cause their own deaths so they can be 'martyrs'. (No members of the PLO bosses were hurt in this exercise)
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Re: Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since May 1948
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 09, 2017 10:34AM
Saturday-The Guardian presents: "More Heroic Youth"





So much better than actually negotiating a two state solution.
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